The sword of truth

[us38]

If something is possible then it becomes necessarily true because out of possibility they can exist.

You still have yet to prove this.

It is not a matter if they exist in this world.

Oh, but it does. Other worlds do not affect this one. If they did, they wouldn't be other world. Knowing this, how can you say that something being possible makes it necessarily true in another (something necessarily true in one world is necessarily true in all worlds).

If something is necessarily true in another world, then it becomes possible in this world.

First, you still haven't proven this. Second, you were saying the converse just seconds ago.

 

[GodSchism]

Examples aren't proof. For one so (self-proclaimed to be) versed in philosophy, it's said that you don't realize it.

However, I grow tired of this, so I will offer a disproof.

1. Premise: Everything that is possible is necessarily true.
2. Premise: It is possible that p is true.
3. Premise: It is possible that ~p is true.
4. p is true (from 1 and 2).
5. ~p is true (from 1 and 3).
6. 4 and 5 are contradictory.
7. Either 1, 2, or 3 is false (from 6).
8. Neither 2 nor 3 can a priori be assumed false.
9. It is impossible to prove either 2 or 3 is a posteriori false.
10. 1 must be false (from 7, 8, and 9).

Pretty good for not having had any philosophy classes, don't you think?

Unicorns exist or they don't.
The same logic can be applied to something exists or nothing exists.
Unicorns exist or they don't.
Something exists or nothing exists.
Nothing cannot exist.
If nothing cannot exist then it is possible that unicorns can exist.
In another possible world unicorns exist.
If it is possible in another world that unicorns exist then it is necessarily true.
If something is necessarily true in another world then it is true.
If it is true that unicorns exist in another world then it becomes possible that they exist in this world because it is necessarily true in another world.
Does that prove that they exist in this universe. Who knows? In another possible universe they do exist because they can be imagined.
From the imagination, if something can be defined and given form then it becomes possible.
If something becomes possible then that possibility can be made manifest.
Is a square-triangle possible, no because it cannot be imagined. If it cannot be imagined then it is not possible.
If something is not possible then it becomes necessarily false. If it is false in this world then it is false in all other worlds.
If something is true then it can be made manifest. But if something is necessarily true then it becomes true; whether it be in this world or another possible world.
So if something is possible then it becomes necessarily true and if it is necessarily true then it becomes true in another possible world.
Is it possible that a world can exist within a world?
The universe is a microcosim of existence. Worlds living side by side. If one can imagine that a universe exists within a universe then it is possible that an infinite number of universes exist all in one universe, 'side by side.' Therefore all universes are one. In another universe if it is necessarily true that unicorns exist then logic dictates that unicorns exist in this universe if all other universes exist in one universe.
Wow man blows the mind apart. It's like a crazy acid trip. And yes I did lots of acid when I was a kid. Digest that. Think of the infinite possibilities and enchanted kingdoms.

 

[Squeejie]

i can't say that it takes much for me to digest the fact you grew up doing alot of acid

 

[us38]

The same rules apply, Schism. Your logic is wrong. Watch.

1. Premise: If something is possible in one world, it is necessarily true in all worlds (this is what you're arguing is true).
2. It is possible that q is true in one world.
3. It is possible that ~q is true in another world.
4. Therefore, both q and ~q are true in all worlds.

4 is contradictory. 1 is by, reductio ad absurdum, false.

 

[GodSchism]

The same rules apply, Schism. Your logic is wrong. Watch.

1. Premise: If something is possible in one world, it is necessarily true in all worlds (this is what you're arguing is true).
2. It is possible that q is true in one world.
3. It is possible that ~q is true in another world.
4. Therefore, both q and ~q are true in all worlds.

4 is contradictory. 1 is by, reductio ad absurdum, false.

Wow man the paradox of all paradoxes. Easily solved. If it is possible that all universes exist in one universe. Then it necessarily true. If it is necessarily true then all universes are one. Unicorns exist in this universe because all universes are one.

 

[The Nihilist]

Unicorns exist or they don't.
The same logic can be applied to something exists or nothing exists.
Unicorns exist or they don't.
Something exists or nothing exists.
Nothing cannot exist.
If nothing cannot exist then it is possible that unicorns can exist.
In another possible world unicorns exist.
If it is possible in another world that unicorns exist then it is necessarily true.
If something is necessarily true in another world then it is true.
If it is true that unicorns exist in another world then it becomes possible that they exist in this world because it is necessarily true in another world.
Does that prove that they exist in this universe. Who knows? In another possible universe they do exist because they can be imagined.
From the imagination, if something can be defined and given form then it becomes possible.
If something becomes possible then that possibility can be made manifest.
Is a square-triangle possible, no because it cannot be imagined. If it cannot be imagined then it is not possible.
If something is not possible then it becomes necessarily false. If it is false in this world then it is false in all other worlds.
If something is true then it can be made manifest. But if something is necessarily true then it becomes true; whether it be in this world or another possible world.
So if something is possible then it becomes necessarily true and if it is necessarily true then it becomes true in another possible world.
Is it possible that a world can exist within a world?
The universe is a microcosim of existence. Worlds living side by side. If one can imagine that a universe exists within a universe then it is possible that an infinite number of universes exist all in one universe, 'side by side.' Therefore all universes are one. In another universe if it is necessarily true that unicorns exist then logic dictates that unicorns exist in this universe if all other universes exist in one universe.
Wow man blows the mind apart. It's like a crazy acid trip. And yes I did lots of acid when I was a kid. Digest that. Think of the infinite possibilities and enchanted kingdoms.

WRONG! Wrong Wrong Wrong!
Ok, you've deliberately confused two things here.
Something exists or nothing exists. This is a fine premise. The way to follow it up is with this: Something exists. However, you have gone around the bend and instead answered with: Nothing cannot exist. This does not follow. This will make more sense if we reword that first premise I pointed out thusly: Either there is something thing that exists or there isn't. This rewording is absolutely faithful to your premise. However, you cannot get from my rewording that nothing cannot exist. The confusion you should be feeling right now comes from the fact that you are used to having a big yellow bus take you to school.

 

[us38]

If it is possible that all universes exist in one universe. Then it necessarily true.

You still don't get it. I proved you wrong. There is no paradox here; you are wrong. Your "solution" to this non-existant paradox is circular.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Welcome to philosophy 101.

You are preaching a highly simplified form of an extreme Platonism, and imagining that it is all of philosophy. It is you who are confused.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

The Ontological Argument is dead. Get over it.

no one remembers a thing Kierkegaard said.

Maybe that's because some of us haven't got a clue how to pronounce his name? I mean, Kant talked a lot of ludicrously complex rubbish, but we remember him because he has a simple name.

peace

 

[Squeejie]

it's a shame that the religious zealots have the right to come to the open forums to preach and stir up trouble, yet they are safe in their own forums to not have to listen to anyone else.

 

[GodSchism]

two words for you Schism, cat scan. did you copy and paste from your online philosophy lessons? you said that you come armed with a sword, but i think you grabbed someone else's rusty sword. Philosophy may be the search for truth, but it's not absolute truth. it's like saying Google has all the answers, cuz it doesn't. it just leads you to the answers.

Ok I'll prove it to you this way. If I can imagine that another world exists then it becomes necessarily true. If something is necessarily true then it is true.
Philosophers from earth imagined that other worlds exist. Now they are proven true. Here is one example: Mars exists therefore everything that was once imagined is now proven true. If I can imagine that another galaxy exists then it becomes necessarily true. Andromeda exists, now that is proven true. If I can imagine that another universe exists then it is necessarily true. And in this universe unicorns exist. They are necessarily true in this other universe therefore they are true. I can imagine that all universes exist within one universe therefore it is necessarily true that all universes are in one universe. Unicorns exist in this universe.

 

[GodSchism]

WRONG! Wrong Wrong Wrong!
Ok, you've deliberately confused two things here.
Something exists or nothing exists. This is a fine premise. The way to follow it up is with this: Something exists. However, you have gone around the bend and instead answered with: Nothing cannot exist. This does not follow. This will make more sense if we reword that first premise I pointed out thusly: Either there is something thing that exists or there isn't. This rewording is absolutely faithful to your premise. However, you cannot get from my rewording that nothing cannot exist. The confusion you should be feeling right now comes from the fact that you are used to having a big yellow bus take you to school.

It obviously follows buddy. That nothing cannot exist because reality exists. If nothing existed then reality wouldn't exist. You people think I don't know what I am talking about but this is what is taught in philosophy. It is pure philosophy; from it stems all sects of philosophy.

 

[The Nihilist]

It obviously follows buddy. That nothing cannot exist because reality exists. If nothing existed then reality wouldn't exist. You people think I don't know what I am talking about but this is what is taught in philosophy. It is pure philosophy; from it stems all sects of philosophy.

You either lack the capacity to either read what I wrote or you lack the capacity to understand it. Or you're a liar. What you have said is mere sophistry. It does not follow from the premise that reality exists that it is impossible for some things to not exist, and you are the only one who maintains this.
But, if you insist that this is what constitutes philosophy, impress us with a source, or get out of your unaccredited philosophy program.

 

[The Nihilist]

Ok I'll prove it to you this way. If I can imagine that another world exists then it becomes necessarily true. If something is necessarily true then it is true.
Philosophers from earth imagined that other worlds exist. Now they are proven true. Here is one example: Mars exists therefore everything that was once imagined is now proven true. If I can imagine that another galaxy exists then it becomes necessarily true. Andromeda exists, now that is proven true. If I can imagine that another universe exists then it is necessarily true. And in this universe unicorns exist. They are necessarily true in this other universe therefore they are true. I can imagine that all universes exist within one universe therefore it is necessarily true that all universes are in one universe. Unicorns exist in this universe.

Jesus Christ this is the most backwards thing I have ever seen in my entire life.

 

[GodSchism]

Jesus Christ this is the most backwards thing I have ever seen in my entire life.

What the heck do you know about philosophy?
Nothing. I can prove it.
Barf.

 

[Lord_Marx]

GodSchism I believe that you have no idea what you are talking about, by your logic since I believe this to be true, it must be true. Right?

 

[us38]

Ok I'll prove it to you this way. If I can imagine that another world exists then it becomes necessarily true. If something is necessarily true then it is true.

That doesn't prove that things that are possible are necessarily true.

Once again, I will show you that you are wrong.

1. Define p=all things that are possible are necessarily true.
2. It is possible that ~p is true.
3. ~p is true (from 1 and 2).
3a. Stated more succinctly, p->~p.
4. 3 is a logical contradiction.
5. Therefore, ~p is true.

 

[The Nihilist]

What the heck do you know about philosophy?
Nothing. I can prove it.
Barf.

Can you please try citing some philosophers? This might lend you some credibility. We might start listening to you.

 

[GodSchism]

Can you please try citing some philosophers? This might lend you some credibility. We might start listening to you.

You know it is funny. Alot of philosophers pronounce their faith in a supreme being. Plato talked of God. Spinoza talked of God. Perhaps most philosophers you come across recognized God in one form or another. Take Nietzsche for example. He believed that man could become a god. Twilight of the idols. Or in other words twilight of the gods.
Truly, there are no atheists in real philosophy. If you ever picked up a book of philosophy you will find this to be true.

 

[The Nihilist]

You know it is funny. Alot of philosophers pronounce their faith in a supreme being. Plato talked of God. Spinoza talked of God. Perhaps most philosophers you come across recognized God in one form or another. Take Nietzsche for example. He believed that man could become a god. Twilight of the idols. Or in other words twilight of the gods.
Truly, there are no atheists in real philosophy. If you ever picked up a book of philosophy you will find this to be true.

So no. Talking of a god and keeping a faith in a supreme being are not the same at all. Moreover, you have completely misread Nietzsche. Religion is for Nietzsche fiction. But like all fictions, some are beneficial, and some are pernicious. Nietzsche was of the opinion that monotheism on the whole and Christianity in particular is pernicious.
Can you cite one single philosopher who has claimed that everything that is possible exists? Because you keep saying that this is a part of philosophy, or that it's pure philosophy, or somesuch. What's your source?