• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Featured The Sword Of Goliath

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Minister Monardo, Jan 16, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    1 Samuel 21:
    8
    And David said to Ahimelech, Is there not here on hand a spear or a sword?
    For I have brought neither my sword nor my weapons with me, because the king’s
    business required haste.
    9 So the priest said, The sword of Goliath the Philistine, whom you killed in the Valley
    of Elah, there it is, wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod. If you will take that, take it.
    For there is no other except that one here.
    And David said, There is none like it; give it to me.

    Why was David so impressed with the sword of Goliath?
    Do you detect a hint of covetousness in his statement?
    Did he not realize that as a boy he had wielded a giant’s weapon
    only by the power of the Spirit of the Lord?
    What were the consequences of his taking possession of this mighty weapon?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Bob Crowley

    Bob Crowley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +978
    Australia
    Catholic
    Married
    I get a bit cynical about the theory David didn't rely enough on the Lord to protect him in all circumstances. it was one thing for David to rely on the Lord when the opposition was a single man Goliath who had been browbeating the Israeli army for weeks, and which was effectively a duel between two individuals.

    It was another situation altogether when he was on the fun from his own king Saul, with the whole Israeli army after him. He didn't know who he could trust, hence the charade to pretend to be mad to avoid trouble with Achish, King of Gath. It was either that or fight the king's entire bodyguard single handed.

    Go into a real battlefield with bombs and shells, and see how many bullets and artillery shells are magically deflected because you get down and pray, and trust in the Lord to deliver you from physical danger. He may well deliver you, but not necessarily this side of death.

    It also says that it was the only sword there, so he didn't really have a choice anyway.

    I don't see a hint of covetousness. I see more of a throwaway line - "What the heck? What else is there? I may well take it anyway, even if it does weigh a ton."
     
  3. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    The statement, as highlighted.
    The report of Doeg the Edomite.
    1 Samuel 22:9 Then answered Doeg the Edomite, who was set over the servants of Saul, and said,
    “I saw the son of Jesse going to Nob, to Ahimelech the son of Ahitub.
    10 And he inquired of the Lord for him, gave him provisions, and gave him the sword of Goliath the Philistine.”

    Doeg assumes that Ahimelech inquired of the Lord for him, as he was in possession of an ephod.
    Does David ask him to enquire of the Lord? He asks for a weapon.
    1 Samuel 22:5 Now the prophet Gad said to David, “Do not stay in the stronghold; depart,
    and go to the land of Judah.” So David departed and went into the forest of Hereth.

    The prophet Gad prevented the consequences of David's discovery. Much to his credit, unlike
    many of the kings who followed him, David heeded the words of the prophets Gad and Nathan.
    What became of Ahimelech?
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster Jesus is Post-Mil Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +20,694
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    I think he just needed a sword. That’s what the text implies.
     
  5. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +5,238
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    None of the allusions in the text imply there were any consequences for taking the sword. This is because God did not say - do not take the sword, it is an abomination - so it was fair game, a war trophy so to speak.
     
  6. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    1 Samuel 22:
    16 And the king said, “You shall surely die, Ahimelech, you and all your father’s house!”
    17 Then the king said to the guards who stood about him, “Turn and kill the priests of the Lord,
    because their hand also is with David, and because they knew when he fled and did not tell it to me.”
    But the servants of the king would not lift their hands to strike the priests of the Lord.
    18 And the king said to Doeg, “You turn and kill the priests!” So Doeg the Edomite turned and struck
    the priests, and killed on that day eighty-five men who wore a linen ephod.
    19 Also Nob, the city of the priests, he struck with the edge of the sword, both men and women,
    children and nursing infants, oxen and donkeys and sheep—with the edge of the sword.
     
  7. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    Also, I am not aware of that theory. The thread was just about Goliath's sword.
    Curious if anyone would find some symbolism to the narrative.
    It was literally stashed behind the ephod. Did David enquire of the Lord,
    or was that Doeg's assumption? The narrative only supports that David
    wanted bread and a weapon.
     
  8. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +5,238
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    I don't see how this is relevant?
     
  9. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    Doeg reported that David obtained the sword of Goliath from the priest.
    Do you think that Saul overreacted in seeing this as a direct threat to his reign?
    The result was that an entire village of priests, including children, were slaughtered.
    You do not see that as the consequences of what transpired?
     
  10. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    According to the Word in Amos, they migrated from Caphtor, possibly Crete.

    Amos 9:7. Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD.
    Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and
    the Syrians from Kir?
     
  11. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    Yes, he requests a weapon, and yet he is clearly pleased with that sword being available.
    David went into battle against a giant with a slingshot after he was unable to even handle the
    weapons of Israel. He was bold in faith to take the giant down. But then he removes the giant's
    sword from its scabbard to take off his head, clearly not possible without the power of the Lord
    with him. That is why the OP asks:
    As he remembers that moment on the battlefield, was he remembering where his strength came from?
    He reached behind an ephod to retrieve the sword, but did he enquire of the Lord, or was that
    Doeg's assumption in his damning report to Saul in 1 Samuel 22? The narrative in 1 Samuel 21
    only tells of his need for bread, and a sword.
    Doesn't the narrative of David teach us of our struggles with the carnal nature?
    Did not David often lapse into carnality, only to repent and be restored? Don't we?
     
  12. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    Cool. I changed my rating to informative, but still funny. Thanks for the humor.
     
  13. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +5,238
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    But this is a separate event from the OP.
     
  14. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    1 Samuel 21:
    7 Now a certain man of the servants of Saul was there that day, detained before the Lord. And his name was Doeg, an Edomite, the chief of the herdsmen who belonged to Saul.
    8 And David said to Ahimelech, “Is there not here on hand a spear or a sword? For I have brought
    neither my sword nor my weapons with me, because the king’s business required haste.”

    1 Samuel 22:
    9 Then answered Doeg the Edomite, who was set over the servants of Saul, and said, “I saw the son
    of Jesse going to Nob, to Ahimelech the son of Ahitub.
    10 And he inquired of the Lord for him, gave him provisions, and gave him the sword of Goliath the Philistine.”

    The continuity of the narrative from chapter 21 to 22, the role of Doeg, and the significance
    of what took place are all critical to the OP.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  15. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +5,238
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    The event that the OP is talking about is when David takes the sword.

    The event later on is another event.

    The only thing going on here is humans acting like humans, it has nothing to do with a curse.
     
  16. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    Who said anything about a curse???
    You don't see a direct connection from what Doeg witnessed i.e. David visiting Ahimelech,
    Doeg reporting to Saul, and Saul calling Ahimelech to accuse him and then slay him?
    Okay. We will move on.
     
  17. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +5,238
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    It's probably that I don't get what the point is, and you seem to really be straining to make that point. I'm just being honest, what are you trying to explain?

    Apologies also, the endorophins from that walk may have made me a little less perceptive.
     
  18. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    Maybe just focus on this one question from the OP.
    Was David's reaction to obtaining Goliath's Sword tied to the memory of having wielded it?
    See post #13.
     
  19. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +5,238
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    Oh okay, I think I remember the questions now.

    David taking the sword did result in all those deaths.

    David didn't have foresight like that so he couldn't have known.

    Saul knew David took it, because he was the only one who would have.

    So David's memory of the sword would have resulted in him knowing where to pick it up since it was a significant memory for him.
     
  20. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,762
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    True. One child survived named Abiathar, who took refuge with David.

    Saul knew because of the report from Doeg the Edomite. Let's revisit that.
    1 Samuel 21:
    7 Now a certain man of the servants of Saul was there that day, detained before the Lord.
    And his name was Doeg, an Edomite, the chief of the herdsmen who belonged to Saul.

    Notice it says that he was detained "before the Lord", which allowed him to witness the
    event. Does this suggest that his witness was of the Lord?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...