The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

The Outlier · May 2, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
Genesis 1 is the toledot of the beginnings -the genesis/origin of the heavens and the earth.
Reading Genesis 1 leaves no room for anything other than the facts as the record of the beginnings/the genesis state them; from the POV of God who was there.

The record states that the heavens did not exist outside the earth, separate from the earth, when they were both brought into being on day 1.
Day 1: the heavens and the earth are not yet named, but the heavens are powers and the earth is a globe of water/mayim.
The Holy Spirit brooded over the face of the waters/the deep, and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

God said: "Let there be light", and there was light. That is not from man's POV. Adam was not there. God was there, and it is all His POV.

God divided the light from the darkness and the evening and the morning were one/echad day. He named the darkness and the morning "day and night", and the two, making one revolution around the globe of darkness and light, and back to darkness again from the beginning point was named "echad Day"

So the earth was not named yet, and the firmament was not stretched out from the fixed in place earth on day 1, but the light is brought forth and Day is made and named and the day and the night circle the globe which is fixed, and the earth circles nothing.

There were no heavens stretched out at all when light was brought into being. They were not even named, nor was the earth named.

So that is day 1. A fixed earth; no dry brought forth yet; and no heavens stretched out from the earth.

Now on day 2, God split the waters of the globe in two, and raised half of the waters way up, leaving half below, covering the globe, and stretching the powers of the firmament way out between them, and making stories of "heavens" as they were stretched out.

The light had it's birth out of the darkness right here on this globe of water, and the light was stretched out with the heavens.....
God named the stretched out firmament "heavens". He has "stories" of them. The face of the firmament is the atmosphere where the fowl fly, so He said in Genesis 1; and stretched way out, but below the half of the waters of the globe/earth, are the other "stories" of the heavens.

[The third heaven is where Mount Eden is, and Paradise, God's Garden, where the Tree of Life is, is in that third heaven. Adam was taken from the earth below and had daily communion with the Creator in Paradise/third heaven above, but when Adam became defiled, he was cast back down to earth below and the way was barred by cherubim with flaming swords, lest he enter Paradise in the third heaven and eat of the Tree of Life and live forever, in the forever ruined temple of his flesh and then be forever unfit to be remade in regenerated flesh, for the Glory to indwell Him as he was created for, in the beginning...but I digress]

We have only covered to day 2 of what Genesis 1 factually states.
Earth was not stretched out from the waters and named "earth" until day 3, but the "breadth of the outstretched heavens" belong to the earth, and Mount Eden, with Paradise, are in the third layer/story of the stretched out heavens, and the heavens were stretched out from this very earth when it was yet a globe of water with no "dry" brought forth out of the waters.

God did not form/bring forth the "dry" out of the waters until day 3.

Gen 1:9,10 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry/yabbashah [land] appear: and it was so. And God called the dry [land] Earth/Eretz; and the gathering together of the waters/Mayim called he Seas/Yim: and God saw that it was good.

So we see that the facts state the heavens did not exist as stretched out stories [of powers] until the waters of this very created earth were cut in two, and the powers -the heavens- were stretched out from this globe of water itself, and stretched out in a circle around the globe, but always, half the waters of this created earth are above the stretched out heavens.

Those waters above the heavens were created right here on this globe. The only way they got out there above the heavens was on day 2, when the heavens were stretched out between earth's cut in two waters.

That needs no interpretation, but apparently, it does need eye salve for the blind to see what is actually said.

I see everything you said but it does not say that the sun permanently and always rotates around the earth. One day in the book of Joshua, the earth was fixed and the sun moved back. In that passage, the sun rotated around the earth. The Bible does not say that other than that, the sun rotates around the earth. You keep talking about heavens as if heavens are only space. They may be. They may include the sky. Then you talked about only the land being called earth. The vast majority of planet earth is dry land. With the exception of 6 miles (at the deepest) of water, its either solid land or molten lava. The diameter of the earth is over 8,000 miles. 6 miles of water on top of 8,000 miles of land is not much water. Are the oceans part of the earth, biblically?- hard to tell. They aren't leaving any time soon. What you are saying is assuming that the English language properly describes what really happened. I'll buy that one day the sun rotated around the earth. You haven't proven that on every other day, the sun still rotates around the earth. Either way, its a matter of perspective. Like I said earlier unless we find the 0,0,0 of the universe, its hard to say what everything rotates around. You don't need to accuse people you do not know of ill intent to make a point. Usually when people attack the faith of people that disagree with them its called "not being able to make a good argument." All you are really doing is blurring the definition of words based on how you already interpreted scripture. God did what He did in the book of Joshua to show His power over nature, not to indicate what revolves around what.

yeshuasavedme · May 2, 2014

The Outlier said:
I see everything you said but it does not say that the sun permanently and always rotates around the earth. One day in the book of Joshua, the earth was fixed and the sun moved back. In that passage, the sun rotated around the earth. The Bible does not say that other than that, the sun rotates around the earth.

The sun went backwards in Isaiah, ten degrees, besides stopping in its circuit with the moon, for about one whole day, and did not set for two days in the time of Joshua.

The sun, moon and the stars revolve around the earth in their set orbits which are peculiar to each of them, in the heavens. The heavens are the circle of the earth, in the Word. That is what the Word says, not what I say.

The Outlier said:
You keep talking about heavens as if heavens are only space. They may be. They may include the sky.

The sky is the face of the heavens, in Genesis 1.
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open[/face of the] firmament, heaven.

The Outlier said:
Then you talked about only the land being called earth. The vast majority of planet earth is dry land. With the exception of 6 miles (at the deepest) of water, its either solid land or molten lava. The diameter of the earth is over 8,000 miles. 6 miles of water on top of 8,000 miles of land is not much water. Are the oceans part of the earth, biblically?

When God created the heavens and the earth they were not named, yet, when everything was a globe of waters -massive waters- out of which elements of the waters of creation God formed/called forth into being, every living thing.

The created waters are the primal "soup" of the elements of creation, so to speak!
The "dry" called into being out of the waters was named "earth". "Earth" then, is the name of the entire globe of "waters and dry" just like "Day" is the name of the entire "evening and morning/ night and day".

Half the waters of this globe/earth are raised above the stretched out expanse/firmament/heavens.

at the time of the flood, the waters contained under the "dry" burst out of their places to join with their opposite half which was rushing down from above the heavens, and they two met and were united one with another for the first time since day 2 of creation. The waters above are negatively charged and the waters below are positively charged.

Not all the waters burst forth from beneath the earth nor did all the waters rush through openings in the heavens, but what we see now is only part of what covered the entire globe before half the waters were raised above the firmament/heavens and those fountains of the deep were burst open.

Before the flood, there was one land mass and some islands, and one body of waters called "seas".
That is all in Genesis, and Enoch explains about the positive and negative charges of the waters above and below. When God opened the fountains beneath and doors above, they rushed together to flood the earth.

Gnarwhal · May 2, 2014

KEPLER said:
Erm....Giordano Bruno? Copernicus, sure. Kepler, Galileo, Brahe, Descartes, Gassendi, Boyle, et alia, naturally. Bruno? No.

Bruno believed (and praised Copernicus for establishing a scientific explanation for the fact that the Earth revolves around the sun, and that the apparent diurnal rotation of the heavens is an illusion caused by the rotation of the Earth around its axis. Bruno also held (following Nicholas of Cusa) that because God is infinite the universe would reflect this fact in boundless immensity.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

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The Outlier · May 2, 2014

The sun went backwards in Isaiah, ten degrees, besides stopping in its circuit with the moon, for about one whole day, and did not set for two days in the time of Joshua.

The sun, moon and the stars revolve around the earth in their set orbits which are peculiar to each of them, in the heavens. The heavens are the circle of the earth, in the Word. That is what the Word says, not what I say.

Thank you for showing me another verse in Isaiah. I learned something. Either way though, those are a few events- not an indicator of what happens every other day.

Half the waters of this globe/earth are raised above the stretched out expanse/firmament/heavens.

at the time of the flood, the waters contained under the "dry" burst out of their places to join with their opposite half which was rushing down from above the heavens, and they two met and were united one with another for the first time since day 2 of creation. The waters above are negatively charged and the waters below are positively charged.

Not all the waters burst forth from beneath the earth nor did all the waters rush through openings in the heavens, but what we see now is only part of what covered the entire globe before half the waters were raised above the firmament/heavens and those fountains of the deep were burst open.

Before the flood, there was one land mass and some islands, and one body of waters called "seas".
That is all in Genesis, and Enoch explains about the positive and negative charges of the waters above and below. When God opened the fountains beneath and doors above, they rushed together to flood the earth.

I agree that there is water in the clouds. That's where rain comes from. Some say there was a layer of water covering the atmosphere protecting people from the sun's rays. Enoch is probably a good book. Like the others, though I do not consider it scripture just like I don't consider Jasher or the Apocrypha scripture.

yeshuasavedme · May 2, 2014

The Outlier said:
Thank you for showing me another verse in Isaiah. I learned something. Either way though, those are a few events- not an indicator of what happens every other day.

I agree that there is water in the clouds. That's where rain comes from. Some say there was a layer of water covering the atmosphere protecting people from the sun's rays. Enoch is probably a good book. Like the others, though I do not consider it scripture just like I don't consider Jasher or the Apocrypha scripture.

The Genesis record states that the waters of the creation were divided in two and the firmamant/expanse/the heavens were stretched out between them.
Every layer of the stretched out heavens -there are stories of them, as Scripture states- exists between the divided in two waters of this earth's creation.

The sun, moon, and stars are set in those stretched out heavens beneath the waters above the stretched out heavens -and that is in the Scripture.

The Genesis record also tells us the scientific fact of "atmospheric rivers" which come out of heaven -above the third heaven- and become heads of rivers on earth below.
The Scripture states that Mount Eden where Paradise is is in the third heaven, and a river comes out of Eden and waters the Garden, and becomes four heads of four rivers on earth below.

The Scriptures also state that the stars cause the rains and the floods and the ice and the hailstones.

Gnarwhal · May 2, 2014

The Outlier said:
Thank you for showing me another verse in Isaiah. I learned something. Either way though, those are a few events- not an indicator of what happens every other day.

I agree that there is water in the clouds. That's where rain comes from. Some say there was a layer of water covering the atmosphere protecting people from the sun's rays. Enoch is probably a good book. Like the others, though I do not consider it scripture just like I don't consider Jasher or the Apocrypha scripture.

Wise man. It's good to know most people in this thread have common sense.

KEPLER · May 2, 2014

Cogent said:
Giordano Bruno - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Was a link to Wikipedia on Giordano Bruno supposed to mean something?

K

Gnarwhal · May 2, 2014

KEPLER said:
Was a link to Wikipedia on Giordano Bruno supposed to mean something?

K

Um, did you miss the portion that was quoted? The link was just reference. My point is that Bruno's cosmology affirms and built on that of Copernicus, some of his theories which contradicted conventionally held cosmological beliefs at the time were later proven accurate.

KEPLER · May 2, 2014

Cogent said:
Um, did you miss the portion that was quoted? The link was just reference. My point is that Bruno's cosmology affirms and built on that of Copernicus, some of his theories which contradicted conventionally held cosmological beliefs at the time were later proven accurate.

Bruno didn't expand on anything of Copernicus's. Bruno's affection for Copernicus stemmed from his already presumed Pythagoreanism, a system which supposed - for entirely mystical reasons - that at the center of the cosmos was 'the Great Fire.' (Whether the Pythagoreans actually thought the Great Fire was the sun is open to question among scholars.) However, Bruno was quite critical of Copernicus, for the simple reason that Copernicus was too mathematical.

Bruno was no heir of Copernicus. BTW, I tell all my undergrads that if they cite Wikipedia in anything they turn in, they will get the work back with instructions to use only reliable sources.

K

Gnarwhal · May 2, 2014

KEPLER said:
Bruno didn't expand on anything of Copernicus's. Bruno's affection for Copernicus stemmed from his already presumed Pythagoreanism, a system which supposed - for entirely mystical reasons - that at the center of the cosmos was 'the Great Fire.' (Whether the Pythagoreans actually thought the Great Fire was the sun is open to question among scholars.) However, Bruno was quite critical of Copernicus, for the simple reason that Copernicus was too mathematical.

Bruno was no heir of Copernicus. BTW, I tell all my undergrads that if they cite Wikipedia in anything they turn in, they will get the work back with instructions to use only reliable sources.

K

I respect that. Thanks for the education.

For the record, I don't cite Wikipedia if I'm writing a real life research paper, but it's common practice for most on this forum.

JacobLaw · May 3, 2014

You know related to this Copernicus Hoax; is that the tides are caused by the moon's gravity, LOL, the moon's gravity couldn't move a feather on earth let alone it's oceans.
However the moon is a sign of when the tides will happen, as Genesis said it would be; funny to see how we are lead away with ridiculous conclusion like the earth orbiting the sun, and the moon moving the oceans.
Even if gravity was what it is taught to be the simple math of the supposed gravity would have wipe out the moons affect 200,000 miles away. LOL

Gnarwhal · May 3, 2014

JacobLaw said:
You know related to this Copernicus Hoax; is that the tides are caused by the moon's gravity, LOL, the moon's gravity couldn't move a feather on earth let alone it's oceans. However the moon is a sign of when the tides will happen, as Genesis said it would be; funny to see how we are lead away with ridiculous conclusion like the earth orbiting the sun, and the moon moving the oceans. Even if gravity was what it is taught to be the simple math of the supposed gravity would have wipe out the moons affect 200,000 miles away. LOL

Wow, pathetic.

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The Outlier · May 3, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
The Genesis record states that the waters of the creation were divided in two and the firmamant/expanse/the heavens were stretched out between them.
Every layer of the stretched out heavens -there are stories of them, as Scripture states- exists between the divided in two waters of this earth's creation.

The sun, moon, and stars are set in those stretched out heavens beneath the waters above the stretched out heavens -and that is in the Scripture.

The Genesis record also tells us the scientific fact of "atmospheric rivers" which come out of heaven -above the third heaven- and become heads of rivers on earth below.
The Scripture states that Mount Eden where Paradise is is in the third heaven, and a river comes out of Eden and waters the Garden, and becomes four heads of four rivers on earth below.

The Scriptures also state that the stars cause the rains and the floods and the ice and the hailstones.

We seem to agree on so many things, just not on your interpretation of the scripture regarding the sun rotating around the earth. This reminds me of the time I was going to a Church of Christ (where they thought that you had to be baptized to be saved). We were reading exactly the same verses and interpreting them differently. They read Acts 2:38 as an endorsement of their theology, I read it as an endorsement of my theology. You can interpret the verses how you want, but I don't buy it. I also don't consider Enoch scripture, although much of it may be true.

sculleywr · May 3, 2014

JacobLaw said:
You know related to this Copernicus Hoax; is that the tides are caused by the moon's gravity, LOL, the moon's gravity couldn't move a feather on earth let alone it's oceans.
However the moon is a sign of when the tides will happen, as Genesis said it would be; funny to see how we are lead away with ridiculous conclusion like the earth orbiting the sun, and the moon moving the oceans.
Even if gravity was what it is taught to be the simple math of the supposed gravity would have wipe out the moons affect 200,000 miles away. LOL

Really? Please, go take some science classes. The moon is a quarter of the size of the earth. Anything that big in orbit of the earth would have effect on the earth's tides, especially when you consider that the moon is tidally locked with the earth. That's why you can only ever see one side of the earth.

KEPLER · May 3, 2014

JacobLaw said:
You know related to this Copernicus Hoax; is that the tides are caused by the moon's gravity, LOL, the moon's gravity couldn't move a feather on earth let alone it's oceans.
However the moon is a sign of when the tides will happen, as Genesis said it would be; funny to see how we are lead away with ridiculous conclusion like the earth orbiting the sun, and the moon moving the oceans.
Even if gravity was what it is taught to be the simple math of the supposed gravity would have wipe out the moons affect 200,000 miles away. LOL

Perhaps I'm wrong, or I've set my Sarcasmometer too high, but I thought this post was deliberately over-the-top.... Cogent, am I wrong? I don't know this person's history.

K

Gnarwhal · May 3, 2014

KEPLER said:
Perhaps I'm wrong, or I've set my Sarcasmometer too high, but I thought this post was deliberately over-the-top.... Cogent, am I wrong? I don't know this person's history.

K

To my knowledge, JacobLaw is being completely serious, just like yeshuasavedme. They buy the malarky hook, line and sinker.

WisdomTree · May 3, 2014

JacobLaw said:
You know related to this Copernicus Hoax; is that the tides are caused by the moon's gravity, LOL, the moon's gravity couldn't move a feather on earth let alone it's oceans.
However the moon is a sign of when the tides will happen, as Genesis said it would be; funny to see how we are lead away with ridiculous conclusion like the earth orbiting the sun, and the moon moving the oceans.
Even if gravity was what it is taught to be the simple math of the supposed gravity would have wipe out the moons affect 200,000 miles away. LOL

I knew it!!! This website is on drugs...

Gnarwhal · May 4, 2014

WisdomTree said:
I knew it!!! This website is on drugs...

You'd think so, huh? Considering people like YSM haven't been permabanned years ago just on principle.

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KEPLER · May 4, 2014

Cogent said:
To my knowledge, JacobLaw is being completely serious, just like yeshuasavedme. They buy the malarky hook, line and sinker.

Yikes.

Gnarwhal · May 4, 2014

KEPLER said:
Yikes.

Tell me about it. It's frightening that this level of ignorance still exists today.

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