The suffering messiah

[primarymay]

My question to Christians is, why does your God hurt his own creation. After reading the bible again, it is clear that the Lord depicted in the old testament will at times use certain methods to punish those who he deems wicked.

It's not that a wicked person is punished, but that the way your God deals with them is usually to cause pain. Why is this method employed?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I think the answer may be that wisdom preserves health and promotes well being and cultural adaptaion. So as righteousness is equated with such, because it is wise, then any shortfall is automatically harmful to the person or group.

In the case of Jesus crucified, although I'm not a Christian, it may be a "real metaphor" or explicit symbol of the fate of the good within the cultural matrix of sin and folly. One man alone cannot cure a poisoned society, and it is the nature of ignorance, and therefore of sin, to reduce the quantity of good and increase what is harmful. Thus the Crucifiction is like a "fractal" - something self similar to the hearts of broken men and broken society.

So although Christianity may be a "folly to the Greeks" (where flourishing prevails) the wisdom of God makes explicit the consequences of "missing the mark" - you actually hit the mark in another sense, in that you "target what is good" and create the evil of suffereng.

This if God were man (as is the claim) and God is holy, but man desecrates God in sin, and thus desecrated himself in folly, then the "symbol" of Christ is actually quite informative.

 

[zephcom]

My question to Christians is, why does your God hurt his own creation. After reading the bible again, it is clear that the Lord depicted in the old testament will at times use certain methods to punish those who he deems wicked.

It's not that a wicked person is punished, but that the way your God deals with them is usually to cause pain. Why is this method employed?

I'm not Christian, but I do have an opinion on the topic. The God depicted in the Old Testament is actually the God of the Jewish people and not the God of Christians.

The Jewish people are really a binary people in that their ancestors from the days the Old Testament records were a nation in which their political leaders and religious leaders acted in concert. Their God was imagined as being only their God and did not belong to any other people.

As they recorded their national epic, when things were going well with them, it was assumed God was pleased with them. When things were going badly for them, it was assumed that God was displeased with them. It was a convenient way to explain the good times as well as the bad times.

Jesus was a product that nation/religion combination. But the God whom He referred to as The Father, was presented as much different than the God of His ancestors. The Father was presented as a patient, loving and caring God as opposed to the stern task-master of the Jewish religion.

That is why the Jewish leaders were involved in His execution. He threatened their version of God with His teachings.

For Followers of Jesus, the Father as described by Jesus should be the God they worship, not the God described by the priests of the Jewish religion. In short, they need not explain away the God of the Jews. That is the responsibility of the Jews.

 

[Oncedeceived]

My question to Christians is, why does your God hurt his own creation. After reading the bible again, it is clear that the Lord depicted in the old testament will at times use certain methods to punish those who he deems wicked.

It's not that a wicked person is punished, but that the way your God deals with them is usually to cause pain. Why is this method employed?

Perhaps you can give a few examples?

 

[Oncedeceived]

I'm not Christian, but I do have an opinion on the topic. The God depicted in the Old Testament is actually the God of the Jewish people and not the God of Christians.

That might be your opinion but it is not accurate. Christians worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and He is the only God.

The Jewish people are really a binary people in that their ancestors from the days the Old Testament records were a nation in which their political leaders and religious leaders acted in concert. Their God was imagined as being only their God and did not belong to any other people.

Various passages of the Old Testament are about prophecy concerning the last days and the gentiles. Genesis also reports the linage of all people from Adam on.

As they recorded their national epic, when things were going well with them, it was assumed God was pleased with them. When things were going badly for them, it was assumed that God was displeased with them. It was a convenient way to explain the good times as well as the bad times.

It may be interesting to note in regard to this that it was common for historic documents to gloss over "bad times" and deny they happened rather than referencing God whatsoever.

Jesus was a product that nation/religion combination. But the God whom He referred to as The Father, was presented as much different than the God of His ancestors. The Father was presented as a patient, loving and caring God as opposed to the stern task-master of the Jewish religion.

Jesus was Jewish and taught with the Old Testament. He viewed it as the source of authority, that could not be broken, He claimed He didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. He affirmed that God was the same in the past as He was in Jesus's time.

That is why the Jewish leaders were involved in His execution. He threatened their version of God with His teachings.

They crucified Him because He claimed to be God. The religious leaders of the time worried their authority would be challenged by Him.

For Followers of Jesus, the Father as described by Jesus should be the God they worship, not the God described by the priests of the Jewish religion. In short, they need not explain away the God of the Jews. That is the responsibility of the Jews.

That too is inaccurate.

 

[primarymay]

Perhaps you can give a few examples?

You're joking right?

 

[Oncedeceived]

You're joking right?

Nope, just one or two.