The stumbling block for atheists.

[Michael]

Remember, you HAVE NO evidence. You have belief.

One of the most extreme cases of projection I've ever seen.

The first sentence is necessarily true for an atheist.

The second statement is essentially true too.

Atheists tend to "hold the belief" that without empirical cause/effect justification of 'God', they are entitled to "lack belief" in God. That is in fact a "belief system", even if they also hold an additional belief that it's a logical position to take.

 

[Michael]

Did I actually just agree with dad? Oh no.......

 

[Michael]

Adam not created but born of some creature then?

We're all born of the creature called "God".

 

[lesliedellow]

We're all born of the creature called "God".

God is a creature? Well, I had never thought of the JWs as orthodox, but compared with you, they are as straight as a die.

 

[Michael]

Just to mention, I went yesterday to the Natural History Museum in London, particularly to look at the Evolution of Humankind exhibition where they had bones and skulls from numerous Hominids, including Human species who lived in the past (Homo Neanderthal, Erectus, Floridian etc.) and they all looked as if they were brilliantly suited to the environment in which they lived. I guess some would argue on here they evolved that way, some would argue they were "intelligently designed" that way. Unfortunately all Human species, except Homo Sapiens are now extinct, however well designed they were.

I suspect that it was the Homo Sapiens that did caused the rest to go extinct. We even kill each other with ridiculous efficiency.

 

[Michael]

God is a creature? Well, I had never thought of the JWs as orthodox, but compared with you, they are as straight as a die.

LOL! Trying to interject humor is pretty hit and miss around here. Someone is bound to be offended.

 

[dad]

We're all born of the creature called "God".

? God picked some spawn of descended animals one day, breathed life into it? Then what, Adam waited millions of years for a wife to evolve rather than one made from his bone by God too?

 

[dad]

The first sentence is necessarily true for an atheist.

I was talking about science.

 

[dad]

I suspect that it was the Homo Sapiens that did caused the rest to go extinct. We even kill each other with ridiculous efficiency.

So man did what, ran around and killed all the trilobites?

 

[Michael]

The universe would need to be like a giant Nazi gas chamber if the goal was to get widespread life in it, cause it is going to disappear one day. Roll up like a scroll and be no more. Doesn't make sense to me God wanted to roll up and disappear trillions of sextillions of folks.

We are free to roam so your comparison to a concentration camp is irrational IMO. Whether you like it or not, lifeforms have disappeared "trillions of sextillions" of times on this planet.

Life has managed to conquer nearly every conceivable corner of this planet, from it's ocean depths, to the birds in the air, and the biodiversity on this planet is simply amazing.

I'd say that DNA certainly appears to be intelligently designed.

 

[Michael]

So man did what, ran around and killed all the trilobites?

Have you seen what's going on in Syria recently? We exterminate living things with a vengeance.

 

[Freodin]

I suspect that it was the Homo Sapiens that did caused the rest to go extinct. We even kill each other with ridiculous efficiency.

Have you seen what's going on in Syria recently? We exterminate living things with a vengeance.

Have you ever heard of plague, climate change, famines, floodings, earth quakes, meteorite impacts? The universe exterminates living things with a vengeance, too.

 

[dad]

We are free to roam so your comparison to a concentration camp is irrational IMO. Whether you like it or not, lifeforms have disappeared "trillions of sextillions" of times on this planet.

Nope, dream on. You can't prove it. We are NOT free to roam the universe all that much we have limits. God is moving to earth one day not some imaginary little exoplanet.

Life has managed to conquer nearly every conceivable corner of this planet, from it's ocean depths, to the birds in the air, and the biodiversity on this planet is simply amazing.

Man hasn't even hardly been 10 miles down! He has no direct idea what is down there. He has sent probes to the moon and Mars etc. But his ideas of why Mars had water and the inner planet etc are laughable fake news.

I'd say that DNA certainly appears to be intelligently designed.

Of course. But that would be y the same God that created Adam and Eve. Not a god that sat on the sidelines twiddling it's thumbs while the earth and life basically created itself.

 

[dad]

Have you seen what's going on in Syria recently? We exterminate living things with a vengeance.

Not we. They. God's people don't.

 

[Michael]

Have you ever heard of plague, climate change, famines, floodings, earth quakes, meteorite impacts? The universe exterminates living things with a vengeance, too.

Admittedly anything is possible, but my money would be on Homo Sapiens.

 

[Michael]

Nope, dream on. You can't prove it. We are NOT free to roam the universe all that much we have limits. God is moving to earth one day not some imaginary little exoplanet.

We're already roaming around the solar system and landing things on various comets, moons and planets in this solar system. Admittedly humans may never leave the Milky Way galaxy, but anything is 'possible' given enough time, and enough ingenuity.

Man hasn't even hardly been 10 miles down!

It's not like we've even had computers for 50 years yet dad. Give it time. Humans society didn't change all that much for thousands of years, but the 20th century in particular change life forever on this planet.

Once we as a race start learning to work together instead of in competition with each other, the universe is the limit.

He has no direct idea what is down there. He has sent probes to the moon and Mars etc. But his ideas of why Mars had water and the inner planet etc are laughable fake news.
Of course. But that would be y the same God that created Adam and Eve. Not a god that sat on the sidelines twiddling it's thumbs while the earth and life basically created itself.

I don't have a lot of confidence in terms of cosmological claims by cosmologists, but what NASA, and ESA have accomplished in terms of solar system exploration has been nothing short of spectacular IMO. Those images of Pluto were *awesome*!

I'm not sure anyone has a crystal ball when looking millions of years into the past, but I'm sure that the universe and all the planets in our solar system, including Earth are far older than you believe them to be.

 

[Dave RP]

I suspect that it was the Homo Sapiens that did caused the rest to go extinct. We even kill each other with ridiculous efficiency.

Sadly we probably did kill many of our cousins. Just like we are causing huge extinctions around the world now. God, if he exists, should be pretty disappointed with what we've done to his planet.

 

[Kylie]

True. That was the reason for the criteria of awareness.



Ya, I guess so. The response is more for our benefit as observers, and it's benefit in terms of survival.

Wouldn't you say that it's "awareness" that differentiates living things from inanimate objects?

How do you define awareness? How do you tell if something is aware or not?

 

[Kylie]

Let's try this a different way then. Assuming that the goal is long term biodiversity, and widespread life throughout the universe, how would you go about "intelligently" designing such an agent?

First of all, evolution has no goal. It just tries to do the best it can in the here-and-now.

Secondly, I would use material in the most effective way to get the job done. For example, the Laryngeal nerve, I would have that going in a direct line, not the circuitous route it has at the moment. http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2010/06/22/the-laryngeal-nerve-of-the-gir/

You missed the point *entirely*. Many observations will not favor a *single* theory. Your personal requirement that I demonstrate such a thing is preposterous. That's not even a "scientific" requirement in the first place!

Totally irrelevant to what I said.

I JUST DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT COSMOLOGY, IS THAT CLEAR?

 

[MissRowy]

Not we. They. God's people don't.

God's people?? ISIS are God's people. Just not "our" God.