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Yes he fell into serious sin, as many of us do as well. Accepting him back in church after he shows sign of genuine repentance is one thing, accepting him back as a church leader is quite another. 1 Timothy 3:1-7 - ESVBible.org
Especially note this verse: Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
(1 Timothy 3:7)
I have seen interviews of Bentley from secular news journalists on youtube; his reputation puts Christians in a bad light. I'll leave that topic alone now.
That is a wonderful testimony and shows prayers CAN be answered by God!
This would be an *excellent* topic for you to discuss with more Christians in the apologetics section. Christian nerds love discussions about discernment etc.
This quote from a famous classic evangelist :
Discernment is not simply a matter of telling the difference between what is right and wrong; rather it is the difference between right and almost right. Charles Spurgeon
How will you learn that? Only by careful study of the bible and comparing what a preacher says with what the bible actually says.
That does take time and effort but for your own spiritual well-being it is definitely worth it.
My question is: How do you tell apart genuinely enchanted preachers from those that are just putting on a show for money?
Hopefully, none of them are enchanted.
But telling the true from the false is simple: check their doctrine.
My question is: How do you tell apart genuinely enchanted preachers from those that are just putting on a show for money? For instance (hypothetically), many people here would have argued that Peter Popoff and Benny Hinn were genuinely inspired and gifted preachers before they were proven to be frauds/cons ? Many Christians still believe Peter Popoff. It boggles my mind.
I was a Christian for thirty years before I knew anything about this movement but now I know that I am an ignorant twit who used to condemn these people but wow....did God every prove me to be horribly WRONG!!!!!!
Have you ever heard of the term "self-fulfilling prophecy"?In Colombia as he was walking up to the podium Pastor Hinn walked over to my wife who was at or near the front, and he gave her a prophecy that God was going to give her a foreign husband and that she was going to travel all over the world working for Jesus!
Given? You mean your wife gave birth to a daughter? You have a 1 in 2 chance of having a girl. You guys chose to name her Abigayl? If I correctly predict that my pizza will be delivered late, has prophecy been fulfilled?My wife also had a dream where she would be given a daughter named Abigayl...Abby is now nine years of age!!!! This prophecy was confirmed by somebody in her church the next day after she had this dream.
Im not anti-Christian, but I am very much against the charlantry practiced by the likes of Benny Hinn. It makes my blood boil when I see good, honest, and often desperate people swindled out of their hard-earned money by these frauds.
I...........
Have you ever heard of the term "self-fulfilling prophecy"?
Given? You mean your wife gave birth to a daughter? You have a 1 in 2 chance of having a girl. You guys chose to name her Abigayl? If I correctly predict that my pizza will be delivered late, has prophecy been fulfilled?
Actually no, because at the time the prophecy was given one tube was blocked and if I remember correctly the other one was cut after her second son. The probability of Maria and I having a baby girl was no where nearly one chance in two.....it was a lot closer to zero...but just the right doctor came by with just the right procedure at just the right time......plus God helped her in many other ways that defy probability!
but just the right doctor came by with just the right procedure at just the right time
I'm glad that you guys were able to have a child, really. However, it sounds like the forces at work here is not Benny Hinn, but rather western medicine. If this was truly a miracle, why not let Benny Hinns magic do its work without resorting to doctors etc. Your account reminds me of someone who once said "I was on the brink of death, but god miraculously healed me with the help of antibiotics." Second, how can you still have faith in someone that has been proven to be a charlatan (see preceding post)? I believe that the bible has a particular name for those who make prophecies that are false in the name of Jesus- False Prophets.
Rick Joyner is a heretic and an enemy of the Gospel.
If we were still living in Old Testament times, Joyner would have been stoned to death long ago.
Rick Joyner is a heretic and an enemy of the Gospel.
If we were still living in Old Testament times, Joyner would have been stoned to death long ago.
The Apostles Advice
I then felt compelled to look at those who were sitting on the thrones we were passing. As I did, my gaze fell upon a man I knew was the apostle Paul. As I looked back at the Lord, He motioned for me to speak to him.
I have so looked forward to this, I said, feeling awkward but excited by this meeting. I know that you are aware of how much your letters have guided the church, and they are probably still accomplishing more than all the rest of us put together. You are still one of the greatest lights on earth.
Thank you, he said graciously. But you do not understand just how much we have looked forward to meeting all of you. You are soldiers in the last battle; you are the ones everyone here is waiting to meet. We only saw these days dimly through our limited prophetic vision, but you have been chosen to live in them. You are soldiers preparing for the last battle. You are the ones we have all been waiting for.
Still feeling awkward, I continued, But there is no way that I can convey the appreciation we feel for you and for the others who helped set our course with their lives and their writings. I also know we will have an eternity for exchanging our appreciation, so please, while I am here, let me ask, What would you say to my generation that will help us in this battle?
I can only say to you now what I have already said to you through my writings, Paul stated, looking me resolutelyin the eyes. However, you will understand them better if you realize that I fell short of all that I was called to do.
38
But you are here, on one of the greatest thrones! I protested. You are still reaping more fruit for eternal life than any of us could ever hope to reap.
By the grace of God I was able to finish my course, but I still did not walk in all that I was called to. I fell short of the highest purposes I could have walked ineveryone has. I know that some would practically consider it blasphemy to think of me as anything less than the greatest example of Christian ministry, yet I was being honest when I wrote near the end of my life that I was the greatest of sinners. I was not saying that I had been the greatest of sinners, but rather that I was the greatest of sinners then. Even though I had been given so much understanding, I walked in comparatively little of it.
How could that possibly be? I asked. I thought you were just being humble.
True humility is agreement with the truth. Do not fear. My letters were true, and they were written by the anointing of the Holy Spirit. However, I was given so much, and I did not use all that I was given. I, too, fell short. Everyone here has fallen short, except One. The reason you must see this particularly about me is that many are still distorting my teachings, because they have a distorted view of me.
As you saw the progression in my letters, I went from feeling that I was not inferior to even the most eminent apostles, to acknowledging that I was the least of the apostles. I then saw that I was the least of the saints, and finally that I was the greatest of sinners. I was not just being humble, but I was speaking sober truth. I was entrusted with much more than I used. There is only One here who fully believed, who fully obeyed, and who truly finished all that He was given to do. But you can walk in much more than I did.
Rediscovering the Foundation
Rather feebly, I replied, I know that what you are saying is true, but are you sure this is the most important message you could give to us for the last battle?
I am sure! he replied with utter conviction. I so appreciate the grace of the Lord to use my letters as He has, but I am concerned with the way many of you are using them improperly. They are the truth of the Holy Spirit and they are Scripture. The Lord did give me great stones to set into the structure of His eternal church, but they are not foundation stones. The foundation stones were laid by Jesus alone. My life and ministry are not the example of what you are called to be; Jesus alone is that.
(Rick Joyner, The Final Quest)
DennisTate said:I personally have a very very different background than Pastor Rick Joyner.
If I had read his book The Vision back in 1988, well frankly, I might not have finished it even if somebody had given it to me as a gift?!?!
Then again I got into the habit of reading a lot as a child so I might have read it. Even at this time there are statements in Rick Joyner's writings that make almost no sense to me whatsoever! Here is an example:
The following two sentences make almost no sense to me whatsoever:
Say what????????????!!!!!!!!
How in the world could "human compass be just as contrary to Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua as human oppression???????????????????"
I do actually understand why so many people find the writings of Rick Joyner offensive!!!!
I do too but I am open to the idea that many of the highly offensive things he writes may be in the league of some of the offensive statements made to people during near death experience accounts. At the time of the Apostle Paul some of these things might well be "unlawful to be uttered" but.....we are now living in the time period when the full plan of God can finally be understood.....even the wrath of God which to my thinking has much to do with His astonishing and deep and sophisticated sense of humor!!!!
Yea sounds like its written by some homeless nut
Yea sounds like its written by some homeless nut
The Evil Army
I saw a demonic army so large that it stretched as far as I could see. It was separated into divisions, with each carrying a different banner. The foremost and most powerful divisions were Pride, Self righteousness, Respectability, Selfish Ambition, and Unrighteous Judgment, but the largest of all was Jealousy. The leader of this vast army was the Accuser of the Brethren himself. I knew that there were many more evil divisions beyond my scope of vision, but these were the vanguard of this terrible horde from hell that was now being released against the church.
The weapons carried buy this horde had names on them: the swords were named Intimidation; the spears were named Treachery; and their arrows were named Accusations, Gossip, Slander and Faultfinding. Scouts and smaller companies of demons with such names as Rejection, Bitterness, Impatience, Unforgiveness and Lust were sent in advance of this army to prepare for the main attack. I knew in my heart that the church had never faced anything like this before.
The main assignment of this army was to cause division. It was sent to attack every level of relationship-churches with each other, congregations with their pastors, husbands and wives, children and parents, and even children with each other. The scouts were sent to locate the openings in churches, families or individuals that rejection, bitterness, lust, etc., could exploit and make a larger breech for the divisions that were coming.
The most shocking part of this vision was that this horde was not riding on horses, but on Christians! Most of them were welldressed, respectable, and had the appearance of being refined and educated. These were Christians who had opened themselves to the powers of darkness to such a degree that the enemy could use them and they would think that they were being used by God. The Accuser knows that a house divided cannot stand, and this army represented his ultimate attempt to bring such complete division to the church that she would completely fall from grace
I saw lots of demons everywere.I saw a demonic army so large that it stretched as far as I could see.
I saw lots of groups with names of different sins and their bad sins. Even Satan was there! I must be realllly important for him to turn up!It was separated into divisions, with each carrying a different banner. ..... The leader of this vast army was the Accuser of the Brethren himself.
These weapons all had names that aren't in the bible, but that doesn't matter. They sound impressive so it had to be true.The weapons carried buy this horde had names on them: the swords were named Intimidation; the spears were named Treachery; and their arrows were named Accusations, Gossip, Slander and Faultfinding.
All these meanies I saw aren't people who DONT believe in Jesus. These meanies are nasty Christians who are close minded bible-bashers* and dont need my visions like nice Christians always do**.The most shocking part of this vision was that this horde was not riding on horses, but on Christians!
OK - will translate into average IQ Christianese.
I saw lots of demons everywere.
I saw lots of groups with names of different sins and their bad sins. Even Satan was there! I must be realllly important for him to turn up!
These weapons all had names that aren't in the bible, but that doesn't matter. They sound impressive so it had to be true.
All these meanies I saw aren't people who DONT believe in Jesus. These meanies are nasty Christians who are close minded bible-bashers* and dont need my visions like nice Christians always do**.
*2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
**a close-minded "meanie" who would rather divide over truth than give false unity/peace to lies. Something that non-Christians and low-bible usage Christians won't understand.
In our soceity we hinge content on the credablity of the witness, or how this information was obtained, rather than taking the message and judging it's content. Which was secondary lesson in this story. (In that God would have use some of these side walk preachers to pull his church together, but because they did not have a pedagree they are shunned and ignored.)
With any True message or 'revelation' From God, the messenger is of little importance. It is the message we should look at. This is why it is so desperatly important that we know our bibles. So that we can turn to it Because otherwise we are subject to the intentions of a messenger, and his hidden intentions. (Which education, status and esteem have no bearing on.) Look at how these 'qualities' are exaulted in our educational system and also look at the coruption and hidden agendas they push under the guiles of being 'properly educated.' So just because a man presents himself with those qualities does not mean he does not have a hidden agenda..
I don't know the author of this book nor do I really care. I take it though that you see him as a benny henn type. Even so God uses these guys despite their potentially self serving efforts. We must learn to seperate the message from the messenger and examine what was said rather than putting so much importance on who said it. or how they intend to use the revelation given them.
This goes into another question you asked would the devil give such a good message to someone looking to serve him rather than God? The answer is yes. This is a simple half truth. The message is the 1/2 true part and things like this are often paired with other messages or an open agenda to push another doctrine or a line of thought, that would not stand on it's own merrit. Again however, if we learn to seperate the message from the messenger then we can reclaim the truth of God's revelation away from the person who would use it for his own gain and give it back to God. Which all comes back to knowing your bible so you can identify God's truth in a message like this.
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