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&Abel

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I have a couple questions concerning the statue and I'll warn you right up front this is a somewhat loaded question but I'd appreciate some honest answers

is there a ceremony done on the statue?

is the statue considered sacred by the church?

is some type of special treatment other then maintenance given to the statue?

are objects offered to the statue?
 

benedictaoo

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when the statue is made is there a ceremony placed over it

No. It's just religious art or decoration.

But you can have it blessed and that's not a ceremony... it's just a prayer (to God) asking for this object to be set apart for his holy use if he so chooses to use it. Then it's a consecrated thing as well as art.

and is there any special treatment given to the statue

Not really- I would think you would respect it like you would respect anything else but it's been blessed, you can't resell it, that would be Simmorty and you shouldn't throw it away but dispose of blessed objects properly. Becuase of the blessing- not for the sake of the object.

Now if it wasn't blessed I would not just throw away a picture of Mary or Jesus just as I would not throw away a picture of my own mother.

These are ppl to us, just as our own family. We honor their memory.

does the church consider it to be more then an object?

No, not at all- what is special is the blessing attached, never the object itself.

like if someone were to say touch it in an improper way or something is that forbidden?

Well what freak would do that?

I would image that is forbidden in any one's home with any image, not just the holy ones. But, no, it's not a god, a idol... it's not what you're implying.

Would you like it if someone came in and touched a picture of your mom inappropriately?

It's the same thing. It's just weird.


do you offer things to the statue?

mmm, no. we can adorn it as a gesture to the person it represents, like when you put flowers on a grave, you are only honoring the memory.

We are not doing what the Israelites did with the golden calf. We are not making an offering to a god. Our offering is the Mas where the sacrifice of Christ is offered once for all.

not you personally but your church in general

What you are referring to is more of a private practice and not really what the Church does.

The Church dedicates churches to Saints, every church as a relic of the Saints build into the alter and they have statues that are usually given to them by the parsinoiers or the diocese and the church is indeed blessed, it's holy ground.

But do you believe in healing charisms or ppl having gifts?

Well it's the same thing- Just becuase we consecrate an object or image to God, does not mean it will be miraculous, it's only if God chooses to use it. He may give this object power or He may not.

For example, if He grants conversion to a green scapular and I give it to someone in faith (faith in God, not the cloth) then if it is God's will, what God wants, the person will be converted.

If a Marian shrine is known for healing then only who God chooses to be heal will be healed. It;s not a guarantee anyone will be healed. It's not magic and one still has to have faith in God's healing power.
 
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benedictaoo

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is it more important or significant to offer flowers to a statue of Mary apposed to your family members?
Okay able.

No, its not more imporatnt. We love them and honor them as seravnts of God.

Now they are Saints meaning in heaven, so we can pray to them... I would not pray to a family mebber but pray for them but that is a whole nother thread.

like do you believe that the offering can help you apposed to being a gesture of honor like with a family member

In no way. absolutely not.
 
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benedictaoo

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ok so do you believe that a prayer is more likely to be answered in the presence of a Mary statue?

Nope.

But lets say I am seeking a healing and a certain icon is miraculous (one God has chosen to work through) then I can go with expectant faith of being healed.

But then again, God can heal me if I do not pray before that icon.

The point in healing through the icon would be for God glory and the whole Church and other ppl's benefit and that is why God would use it.

Not becuase the object itself is anything special.
 
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benedictaoo

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do you believe that praying in the presence of the statue increases your chances of god answering?

No, my chances are only as good as God's will.

If it's His will to answer through the intersession of that particular Saint and He made the image a channel of His grace, where when we do ask for intersession, then it would be only if this is His will.

Keep in mind that it's the Saint in heaven we are praying to, never the image.
 
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benedictaoo

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Did you get a chance to read this.

This is not about statutes but objects, blessings, holy water.


IOW, they work as good as your faith is. If you have no faith, they do not work and the faith is in God and what He can do, no in the thing itself.
 
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benedictaoo

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Here is good article. It should also help you better understand.

 
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benedictaoo

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Another point I wanted to make as far as those who believe images are idols...

To deny Mary her image or Christ His is to deny that they lived and breathed.

and to some extent to deny the incarnation itself.

Jesus was made flesh, there is nothing idoltary about making a image of a person who lived, who had a name, a face, a body, an identity.

We make images not to idolize or worship but becuase we are human and it's just a human thing to do. When a person dies on a road side, what do we all do? Adorn it and pray at that site..why? becuase it's just the human thing to do.

I really think a over reaction to Catholicism has caused many to dehumanize themselves unintentionally.

Like DD2008 will not call Mary a person but a creature. I know he picked this up from the Protestant reading but all it is is dehumanizing Mary in order to deny her.

Why do that? She was a human being who lived and breathed and as human beings who have hearts and souls, we love and honor the memory of ppl, we do not dehumaise them. We respect the dignity of the human person, alive or dead.
 
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DD2008

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I call all of us creatures. We are. God created us. To speak the truth that humans are creatures is not dehumanizing it is true.

I call Mary blessed because she is the Mother of Christ but I deny that she should be prayed too and I deny all the unbiblical Marian dogmas.
1. Because they aren't supported in scripture and
2. Because they take the focus off of Christ and glorify her instead of God.

I love Mary as a fellow christian and the mother of Christ. However I am not going to offer her any devotions or pray to her or kneel in front of a statue of her because I think that is unbiblical.

She is Christ's mother he will honor her how he sees fit. She is John's adopted mother. He honored her by keeping her at his house.

We can honor our fathers and mothers by showing them respect and helping them with what they need. We only do what they tell us however when we are children. Many times adult children make far better decisions than their parents. There is no reason to believe that Christ obeys Mary in heaven. I firmly believe it is the other way around.

I reject the writings of Louis de Montfort as false and unfounded, written by a probable heretic. I think that the consecration he peddled is certainly idolatry. He asks people to consecrate their soul to Mary and give her their "treasury of merits" (another lie) so they can trust her to take them to Christ because he thinks people aren't worthy to pray directly to God and to do so he says is presumptuous and arrogant...

So, The Roman Catholic Church and a few Popes have embraced these unbiblical writings of de Montfort and have even recommended that that false consecration be performed.

However Christ said this:

Matthew 6:9-13
[9] Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread;
[12] And forgive us our debts,
As we also have forgiven our debtors;
[13] And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.

We are saved by grace through faith and not by works. Works are just a product of faith already received. The good news is that salvation is through Jesus Christ and it is free.

Romans 10:9-13
[9] because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will besaved.
[10] For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved.
[13] For, "every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved."

Epshesians 2:8-9
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

There is no other gospel than this:

Acts 4:10-12
[10] be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well.
[11] This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, but which has become the head of the corner.
[12] And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
 
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benedictaoo

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I do have a question. Why do they dress the statue of Mary and parade her around?

I answered you in the "not listening" thread.. I know the irony.. why do you put flowers on a grave?

That's why.

abel came back and answered all of your own questions...
a gesture towards the person it represents

but you are not giving the flowers to the tombstone

your giving them in honor of the person buried

He said it perfectly.

This whole thing has really and truly been answered and if you are not going to read and read the articles I poste here then "your not listening..."
 
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benedictaoo

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Okay Dave... you have to stop preaching and throwing scripture around like dish water. and for the gazillionth time, devotions are not doctrine, De montfort is not a Church doctor and it's not even required.

BUt I am here to answer questions, not be preached at. i can 110% assure you that you can not convert me into thinking the Church is wrong and Marian devotion is or any devotion to any Saint is. It is not required and as a Catholic no one has to do it but it is not wrong if you do.

Now, here is the point I would like to make... you are catholic, all of you are catholic here, you do catholics things day in and day out- you have honoring ceremonies where we honor ppl, and you have road side shines and candlelight vigils, memorials, etc and y'all decorate your house with all kinds of chachki. you put photos of loved one all around the place, even tote them in your wallet, show them to who ever will look a them, hang deceased loved ones pictures in places of high honor.

But as soon as you step foot in a church-bam- you go into dehumanize mode, you can't even think of looking at anyone who died as anything but dead and gone.

But when you leave church- you go back to be a human being working off the 5 senses. IOW, you go back to being catholic.

She is John's adopted mother. He honored her by keeping her at his house.
which makes the theory she had other kids completely illogical. Just some food for thought.
 
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