The "sex" in Homosexuality is what's wrong.

[GenemZ]

HIV/AIDS is the result of sin. Does that mean everyone who has HIV/AIDS has it as a result of their sin?

No. But it shows that serious sins that are epidemic in nature effects even the innocent if not brought into check. There is a lesson to be learned from that aspect. The innocent suffer when national sinning goes unchecked.



.

 

[beechy]

Or someone elses... I would suggest that if the "victim" of such diseases had been a bit more particular and prayerful, he/she might not have been involved with the carrier in the first place.

Nice. Blanket judgment of 1.2 million Americans including insufficiently particular and prayerful babies, children, hemophiliacs, and faithful spouses of cheating partners.

 

[beechy]

No. But it shows that serious sins that are epidemic in nature effects even the innocent if not brought into check. There is a lesson to be learned from that aspect. The innocent suffer when national sinning goes unchecked. .

So is HIV/AIDS a punishment from God?

 

[GenemZ]

Not sure what you're saying here. What do you mean "die the sin onto death"? And are you saying that people who repent die less painful deaths than those who refuse to repent? Can we know who the unrepentant sinners are by observing how painful their deaths are?

Who said that we are to be their judge by mere observation?

Some who have been faithful do get sick and may have great pain as well. But the peace they are given by grace to buffer the pain you may not see with scientific observation. It may be between the person and God alone. They may have pain, but they die in peace. A peace that is given to them which is greater than themselves.

Those who die the sin unto death fear death. No grace .. no reassurance from the Spirit. They may have become numb and desensitized by time death comes. But they had no peace in their soul at the moment of death. They have no assurance given them. God deals with us personally. It is sometimes no one else's business as to what happened. Yet, God makes us aware of what can take place. To be as a warning to us all.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect (matured) love drives
out fear, because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears has not been made perfect (matured)
in love."
​

Those who have become mature in Christ do not fear death. The sin unto death is a process of the fear of death becoming amplified until the last breath is taken. Those who fear death have been known to use strong expletives when speaking in regards to their condition. Others go into shock and denial. Either way. Its a punishing way to die.



.

 

[beechy]

Who said that we are to be their judge by mere observation?

Some who have been faithful do get sick and may have great pain as well. But the peace they are given by grace to buffer the pain you may not see with scientific observation. It may be between the person and God alone. They may have pain, but they die in peace. A peace that is given to them which is greater than themselves.

Those who die the sin unto death fear death. No grace .. no reassurance from the Spirit. They may have become numb and desensitized by time death comes. But they had no peace in their soul at the moment of death. They have no assurance given them. God deals with us personally. It is sometimes no one else's business as to what happened. Yet, God makes us aware of what can take place. To be as a warning to us all.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect (matured) love drives
out fear, because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears has not been made perfect (matured)
in love."​

Those who have become mature in Christ do not fear death. The sin unto death is a process of the fear of death becoming amplified until the last breath is taken. Those who fear death have been known to use strong expletives when speaking in regards to their condition. Others go into shock and denial. Either way. Its a punishing way to die. .

Ah, I see. When you talked about a painful death for the unrepentant you meant painful emotionally, and we can't always tell if a person is at peace with God before they die. Which means that the fact that HIV/AIDS is often a physically miserable death doesn't give us any clues as to whether the person is being punished by God. So how do you know that HIV/AIDS patients are being punished by God?

 

[GenemZ]

So is HIV/AIDS a punishment from God?

Is mold that forms on bread that was left out punishment to the bread? Or the consequences of someone's choices concerning the bread?

Galatians 6:7
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows."
​

AIDS is a result. One that God designed in eternity past for reaping what one sows under certain circumstances. Does that mean its punishment? Or, punishing consequences as a result for willful wrong doing?



The results in itself are punishing. That is obvious.

If people who donate to a charity which is deemed as being a so called good cause? If they in particular, suddenly came down with cancer in large disproportionate numbers? If they did? One would possibly need to re-evaluate the meaning of this good cause. Odd way to approach it. But, I think it answers your question.




.

 

[LittleNipper]

Nice. Blanket judgment of 1.2 million Americans including insufficiently particular and prayerful babies, children, hemophiliacs, and faithful spouses of cheating partners.

I never lumped them all together. You did that in an effort to discredit the obvious, in order to protect your own interests...

 

[beechy]

Is mold that forms on bread that was left out punishment to the bread? Or the consequences of someone's choices concerning the bread?

Galatians 6:7
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows."​

AIDS is a result. One that God designed in eternity past for reaping what one sows under certain circumstances. Does that mean its punishment? Or, punishing consequences as a result for willful wrong doing?

The results in itself are punishing. That is obvious.

What's the difference between "punishment" and a "punishing consequence"?

 

[beechy]

I never lumped them all together. You did that in an effort to discredit the obvious, in order to protect your own interests...

You said the victim might have avoided the disease if s/he exercised more particularity and prayer.

Or someone elses... I would suggest that if the "victim" of such diseases had been a bit more particular and prayerful, he/she might not have been involved with the carrier in the first place.

 

[Nimrauko]

You said the victim might have avoided the disease if s/he exercised more particularity and prayer.

What im not understanding is the person to whom you are referencing.

What tickles me the most is they arent going after african american women who are the group with the highest rate of HIV/AIDS infections. Those are statistics. So when are you going to rally against them?

Its stupid. I am merely saying, you cant call HIV/AIDS a gay disease when its a people disease and it AFFECTS everyone. So pray all you wish, you wont make it any different.

 

[beechy]

What im not understanding is the person to whom you are referencing.

Little Nipper.

 

[GenemZ]

What's the difference between "punishment" and a "punishing consequence"?

Do not go there! If you play in that yard, you will get Poison Ivy.
​

Does the Poison Ivy punish the person who refused to listen?

That's the difference.


.


.

 

[GenemZ]

Ah, I see. When you talked about a painful death for the unrepentant you meant painful emotionally, and we can't always tell if a person is at peace with God before they die. Which means that the fact that HIV/AIDS is often a physically miserable death doesn't give us any clues as to whether the person is being punished by God. So how do you know that HIV/AIDS patients are being punished by God?

Death of that sort is between them and God.

Painful physical death does not mean the person lacks inner peace and tranquility of soul. When you see a mature Christian face that then you will know. It reveals how God's grace is sufficient for anything.

That is why God does have some of his mature Christians face painful physical deaths. Some may even contact AIDS by non-sinful means. God's grace thrives on the contrasts that come out of the same fires of life. Coming out of the same prosperities in life, as well. One needs God's grace to be prosperous as much as one needs for adversity.


.



.

 

[quatona]

Do not go there! If you play in that yard, you will get Poison Ivy.
​

Does the Poison Ivy punish the person who refused to listen?

That's the difference.

.

In reference to an a supposedly almighty creator of everything this distinction between "punishment" and "punishing consequence" is not really applicable.

On another note, did your god say "don´t accept blood transfusions" at some point in time?

 

[GenemZ]

In reference to an a supposedly almighty creator of everything this distinction between "punishment" and "punishing consequence" is not really applicable.

Well... If you say so.

On another note, did your god say "don´t accept blood transfusions" at some point in time?

I don't know. I'll have to check the minutes of the meeting.

Are you done? May I go now? Should I get a lawyer?


...

One second! I just found this in my pocket..

Galatians 6:7
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows."
​

I wonder.. If God is mocked by what a man insists upon doing? Doesn't that mean that the mocker brings on his own punishment? He reaps what he sows? Well, since you seem to know better than I do. Maybe you can explain what that means?


What's this? I just found another in my pocket. Its the next verse.

"The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that
nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please
the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

​

Now, that one really has me confused. Could you please explain that one to me, too?




Thank you for your patience.


In Christ, GeneZ





.



.








.

 

[Andreusz]

Death of that sort is between them and God.

Painful physical death does not mean the person lacks inner peace and tranquility of soul. When you see a mature Christian face that then you will know. It reveals how God's grace is sufficient for anything.

That is why God does have some of his mature Christians face painful physical deaths. Some may even contact AIDS by non-sinful means. God's grace thrives on the contrasts that come out of the same fires of life. Coming out of the same prosperities in life, as well. One needs God's grace to be prosperous as much as one needs for adversity.

.

And you worship this god?

 

[quatona]

I don't know. I'll have to check the minutes of the meeting.

Are you done?

Quite apparently I was, because my post ended there. I´m not sure I understand the reason for your sarcasm. Do you find two sentences too long to read?

May I go now?

Of course you are free to go or to stay.

Should I get a lawyer?

Don´t know. Are you in legal trouble or something?



...

One second! I just found this in my pocket..

Galatians 6:7
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows."
​

I wonder.. If God is mocked by what a man insists upon doing? Doesn't that mean that the mocker brings on his own punishment? He reaps what he sows? Well, since you seem to know better than I do. Maybe you can explain what that means?

I don´t know what gives you the idea that I know your mythology better than I do.
But what´s even worse, I have no idea how you got from my question about blood transfusions to these quotes and questions. Did you confuse this with another thread or something?

What's this? I just found another in my pocket.

Spare me the drama please, will you?

Its the next verse.

"The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that
nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please
the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

​

Now, that one really has me confused. Could you please explain that one to me, too?

No, why would I? It´s your sacred book, not mine, and you are the one who keeps trying to explain bible verses, not me.
And unless I am missing something - that you are invited to explain to me - I fail to see how this is in any way related to blood transfusions.

 

[GenemZ]

No, why would I? It´s your sacred book, not mine, and you are the one who keeps trying to explain bible verses, not me.
And unless I am missing something - that you are invited to explain to me - I fail to see how this is in any way related to blood transfusions.

And, in what way is blood transfusions related to this thread? The "sex" in Homosexuality is what's wrong."

Just the same...Jehovah Witnesses are the ones who have a problem with blood transfusions. Not Christians. Go ask them.

The passage was in response to your remark.

In reference to an a supposedly almighty creator of everything this distinction between "punishment" and "punishing consequence" is not really applicable.

You were wrong. My response?

Galatians 6:7
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows."


"The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that
nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please
the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
​

If you are not able to grasp the meaning of that plain spoken passage? It would indicate that there would be no sense in trying to explain it to you. For, if a passage says Jesus walked on water? And, you asked me to explain what that means?


I will present it to you one more time.

Galatians 6:7
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.

A man reaps what he sows."
​

"The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that
nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please
the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
​

There are punishing consequences in this life. Not all punishment requires God to have a direct intervention. Do this? And something bad will happen.

I had no hopes in having you believe what that says. Understanding what something says, and believing what it says, are two different things. I figured you could at least see what it says, even though you do not believe it.

If I have to explain what that says? Then it can not be explained.

In reference to an a supposedly almighty creator of everything this distinction between "punishment" and "punishing consequence" is not really applicable.

There you have it.


Have a nice time of light.

.

.

 

[quatona]

And, in what way is blood transfusions related to this thread? The "sex" in Homosexuality is what's wrong."

It was related to the topic you guys were discussing at that point in time (and which indeed was off-topic - which seems to be quite common after that many pages, so I won´t blame you): HIV/AIDS as a divine punishment for human misbehaviour. One of the ways HIV/AIDS is transmitted: Blood transfusions.

Just the same...Jehovah Witnesses are the ones who have a problem with blood transfusions. Not Christians. Go ask them.

I am aware of that (although the dichotomy Christians vs. Jehovah´s Witnesses is not for me to make).
However, I was wondering why your god punishes people with AIDS/HIV for something that you think isn´t sinful.

The passage was in response to your remark.




You were wrong. My response?

Galatians 6:7
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows."


"The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that
nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please
the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
​

If you are not able to grasp the meaning of that plain spoken passage? It would indicate that there would be no sense in trying to explain it to you. For, if a passage says Jesus walked on water? And, you asked me to explain what that means?


I will present it to you one more time.

Galatians 6:7
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.

A man reaps what he sows."
​

"The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that
nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please
the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
​

There are punishing consequences in this life. Not all punishment requires God to have a direct intervention. Do this? And something bad will happen.

I had no hopes in having you believe what that says. Understanding what something says, and believing what it says, are two different things. I figured you could at least see what it says, even though you do not believe it.

If I have to explain what that says? Then it can not be explained.




There you have it.


Have a nice time of light.

.

.

Dear, your determination to be condescending really makes it hard to digest your posts.

 

[GenemZ]

It was related to the topic you guys were discussing at that point in time (and which indeed was off-topic - which seems to be quite common after that many pages, so I won´t blame you): HIV/AIDS as a divine punishment for human misbehaviour. One of the ways HIV/AIDS is transmitted: Blood transfusions.

I am aware of that (although the dichotomy Christians vs. Jehovah´s Witnesses is not for me to make).
However, I was wondering why your god punishes people with AIDS/HIV for something that you think isn´t sinful.

Not all bad things that happen to people is designed as punishment. As shown in Job, God must allow at times for evils to fall upon men who have done no wrong. That factor has to do with what some theologians refer to as God resolving the prehistoric angelic conflict. Some will suffer unjustly in this life because of this factor. It would take an entirely different thread to cover that topic. Its a very interesting one.

Dear, your determination to be condescending really makes it hard to digest your posts.

You are correct, and I apologize for getting that way.

What triggered it off you would not have any way of knowing. I realize that now since I see you are an Atheist. What you said can easily insult Christians.

On that note.. Please try wording a bit differently, please. Here is what I refer to.

On another note, didyour god say"don´t accept blood transfusions" at some point in time?

To write, 'god', when you approach Christians, to many, it is as if we are worshiping some tribal god. To use the small g in God is an insult to many Christians. Christians will at times use that rendering of god when approaching someone who promotes false teaching that blatantly contradicts what Scripture teaches. Its an intended insult when that happens. Many times it refers to Satan who is the god of this world.

I know you are an Atheist. But to avoid sounding condenscending yourself, Christians do not worship a god. The God we worship created all the entities that pretend to be gods to superstitious pagans. Those pagan deities are not God. Collectively they could not equal God.

I am explaining this to you that to avoid coming off as desiring to insult Christians. Many would find it insulting. Add to that, I have know Atheists who do know what I speak of and knowingly us 'god' as means to insult. I am sure you are not that kind of person. So I thought you knowing this will help you in your future dialogues here and avoid misunderstandings.

So, I apologize for becoming condescending with you.

If you avoid the 'god' insult from now on it will help with your dialogues with many Christians.


Thank you, GeneZ