don't say that unless u are willing to teach it
and so far, for years, you avoid teaching it like the plague
I can guarantee you that we see differently on this matter
sorry bro, but if u had been following the conversation,When was there a wheat harvest gathered into his barns?
u agree that the first three feasts are fulfilled in Christ.
who was the barley harvest fulfilled with, if it needs completion?
Christ fulfilled the feast of the the Firstfruits.....but the barley harvest has not happened yet. The dead in Christ will rise first........Jesus is the firstfruits of them who slept.
NT says we are firstfruits, not the main harvestThe barley is the dead in Christ
who ever gets gathered to Christ at His Coming, are firstfruitsand the wheat is the alive church. They will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.
It is he that seeks that finds.don't say that unless u are willing to teach it
Know anything about oysters?and so far, for years, you avoid teaching it like the plague
I can guarantee you that we see differently on this matter
zeke37;62903803]
It is he that seeks that finds.
Know anything about oysters?
oh, i'm not asking for MY benefit...lolAnd that should be the only answer that is required. Think on that.
Take for example your cohort that claimed that men don't go to heaven and that was his proof that the core of the pre trib belief is a fallacy.
The point being that the blind man does not want to see the truth, he only wants to see his religion. I could have posted many verses to prove him wrong....such as
wowRev 5
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
But it was not necessary because no matter what truth is posted, he cannot see. He is not looking for the return of Christ as prophesied, but is a scoffer.
I could show you many, many things that are all around you, that you do not see. I could show many things that are in scripture, that would make you wonder how you missed it. But if you can't see the obvious when it is pointed out, such as the above scriptures, you are not ready for anything else.
See, your real problem is that you spiritualize scripture instead of believing what it says. Once you take that path, you cannot possibly see the truth...but instead can make the scriputure say what you want it to say. Your teachers have led you down the road to blindness, sorry, but that's the truth.
If you would like me to toss out a bone, I will be happy to prove what I am saying. You say that Christ only comes one time on the last day and that the rapture is on the last day. I could easily prove that wrong......but could you see it if I did? I don't think so. You will just spiritualize the truth away. Just say the word and I'll show you what I mean.
Christ fulfilled the feast of the the Firstfruits.....but the barley harvest has not happened yet. The dead in Christ will rise first........Jesus is the firstfruits of them who slept.
The barley is the dead in Christ and the wheat is the alive church. They will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.
Choose Wisely said:bibletruth469;62902717] After searching the scriptures, I believe that Gods elect people are everyone who is one of His, not just the Jewish people . Look at Matt24-22,24-31,mark13:22,col 3:12
No doubt, all believers can be considered elect. However, if we understand that the church is gone pre trib, the ELECT in Revelation would be referring to Israel.
Isaiah 45
4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Since we know that the 144000 are of the 12 tribes and are the first fruits.........we know the harvest is Israel. If the firstfruits is pumkins, the harvest is pumkins. Simple enough.
dfw69 said:I as a futurist see the harvest as a finished redemption ...the promised fulfilled... When Jesus returns for us in the air... And takes us to his father ....in heaven... When the wheat is taken to his barn...our bodies changed like he is.... Full salvation not in part... Full revelation not in part... The promises fulfilled to the church of Jesus christ...with crowns on our heads ... Clothed in white garments...redeemed fully from the powers of this world
The harvest when we receive our glorified bodies is a finished work . I believe that we at that time become glorified like Jesus. We will come back to rule and reign with Christ for the 1000 years.
For the harvest feast of Pentecost to be fulfilled, there must be a harvestim not saying your wrong, or right,
but why do u think that the dead have to rise for their to be a fulfillment of the feasts?
We would not be first fruits, we would be the harvest.some of the dead saints already rose when He did, and are the firstfruits...
and we likewise through our Belief, are firstfruits too
Interesting. Can you provide the verses?NT says we are firstfruits, not the main harvest
Well, that would make no sense. We are not the main harvest, but we are a harvest. And we are not the first fruits.who ever gets gathered to Christ at His Coming, are firstfruits
not the harvest
even in Rev14, the gathering to Christ of the 144k is right before the harvests.
Impressive. Now,what do you know about fig trees?yep....1 in 12,000 has a pearl....
interesting number....
what makes your oyster the one with the pearl?
If you believed the word of God and accepted what it says, instead of changing the meaning of words, then I would not have a casting issue.if u'd simply say,
then this doesn't have to be the issue that makes you bury your talent
That's why he who seeks finds.oh, i'm not asking for MY benefit...lol
so? I am not one of those, as you know.
so don't call that line of thought, mine....
stick with the things we are speaking about
So, how many comings of Christ are left to come?wow
first off, just because someone see's one rapture,
doesn't mean that they spiritualize a fictional pre trib one.
I have posted enough on this board where you should notice I take scripture for exactly what it says. I am not making up stuff and changing the meaning of words. It has been proven again, and again, and again and again that no matter how much proof is posted, minds are not going to change. You just saw Mr "men don't go to heaven" get proven he was wrong. But instead of opening his eyes.......he goes back and decides the verses that prove him wrong and the ones he was quoting were talking about following Jesus to Jerusalem and were not about men going to heaven.........WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR THE BLIND MAN TO SEE? He that seeks will find.and second, you gotta lead a blind man to water...
you are not even pointing the way, let alone leading one to water
your just saying, go get water.
Well, the standard pre trib model does not stand up to scripture, and neither does the post trib. I've told you many times that proving that Jack and Jill went up the hill does not prove that Bill and Bev didn't go up the hill first. The things you think are proof.......are not proof. Your boat has lots of holes in it. I know, I used to stand in that boat, I see the holes.third, I glean lots from pre tribbers,
sometimes some of it even makes sense,
most times i glean obv proofs against pre trib,
that show other enlightening facts
but there is a harvest of what happened in Acts2.For the harvest feast of Pentecost to be fulfilled, there must be a harvest
well, the bible call us firstfruits in a few ways,We would not be first fruits, we would be the harvest.
sure, but I could tell you that;Interesting. Can you provide the verses?
where? scripture?We are not the main harvest, but we are also not the first fruits. We are the early summer harvest.
Well, that would make no sense. We are not the main harvest, but we are a harvest. And we are not the first fruits.
actually, i'm interpreting the Word to show that the 144k are ChristiansOh, now I see. You are changing the word to say we are the 144000 first fruits. But the word says that the first fruits are 12000 from each tribe. Try going by what the Bible says so you can understand the truth instead of making the Bible say what you want. The 144000 first fruits are 12000 from each tribe........so the harvest will be Israel.
Choose Wisely said:zeke37;62903923]
For the harvest feast of Pentecost to be fulfilled, there must be a harvest
We would not be first fruits, we would be the harvest.
Interesting. Can you provide the verses?
We are not the main harvest, but we are also not the first fruits. We are the early summer harvest.
Well, that would make no sense. We are not the main harvest, but we are a harvest. And we are not the first fruits.
Oh, now I see. You are changing the word to say we are the 144000 first fruits. But the word says that the first fruits are 12000 from each tribe. Try going by what the Bible says so you can understand the truth instead of making the Bible say what you want. The 144000 first fruits are 12000 from each tribe........so the harvest will be Israel.
zeke37 said:but there is a harvest of what happened in Acts2.
u and I are proof
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
well, the bible call us firstfruits in a few ways,
obv relating us to the firstfruits offered to God
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
sure, but I could tell you that;
"he who seeks shall find",
or talk about "oysters",
or say "the water's around somewhere"
but I don't wanna bury my talent.
the twelve tribes scattered abroad, represent the literal scattered tribes,
who, over time, have became known as other peoples (Christian nations)
1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
10 But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.
11 For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
where? scripture?
I say we are firstfruits of the harvest,
the main harvest is the gentile nations
we see things differently, what can I say
actually, i'm interpreting the Word to show that the 144k are Christians
that come from ethnic Israel,
but not all of them are called Jews...most are not.
I understand that u don't accept this, and i'm ok with that
bibletruth469 said:What about the part in Matt 24 when Jesus gathers His elect from the 4 corners, isn't that the time frame of the 2nd rapture or am I misunderstaning you ? Also during that point, doesn't the elect speak about all peoples at the end of the trib?
I was thinking that there would be 1 pre- trib rapture at pettecost and one at Matt 24. That's when the last trump of God is blown and everyone at that time is gathered. The Pentecost one is the wheat harvest. Also, is the Matt 24 part of the grape harvest, where god judges and saves one part ( the 1st gleaning ) for the righteous?
nope..."jews" are not from all the tribes mentionedThe 144,000 are Jews that are sealed from the 12,000 tribes of Israel during the tribulation .
completely wrong interpThey are a separate harvest and have nothing to do with the harvest of the church.
well, the elect who will witness the truth to the world,They will be sealed with the Holy Spirit as a witness to the people on earth during the tribulation .
no, that's johnThe church is taken up to heaven in rev 4( caught up)
the church is mentioned many times in Rev after chapter 4.and not mentioned again until the end of revelation . Therefore, we must keep the 2 groups of people separate .
scripture does not support dispensationalismI do believe that a person should not make Israel the church and the church Israel. This is called replacement theory . Scripture does not support it.
dfw69 said:I as a futurist see the harvest as a finished redemption ...the promised fulfilled... When Jesus returns for us in the air... And takes us to his father ....in heaven... When the wheat is taken to his barn...our bodies changed like he is.... Full salvation not in part... Full revelation not in part... The promises fulfilled to the church of Jesus christ...with crowns on our heads ... Clothed in white garments...redeemed fully from the powers of this world
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