The Septuagint.

[pawnraider]

I saw a video on youtube in which the speaker stated that Jesus and the apostles used and quoted from the Septuagint. Is this true or is this wishful thinking? And how can we know for sure?

 

[Unix]

Looking at the language in the quotes in the New Testament we are pretty sure they did to a large extent from most parts of the Septuagint:

I saw a video on youtube in which the speaker stated that Jesus and the apostles used and quoted from the Septuagint. Is this true or is this wishful thinking? And how can we know for sure?

 

[dysert]

While possible, many scholars also think they spoke Aramaic. The fact is, we can't know for sure.

 

[Radagast]

I saw a video on youtube in which the speaker stated that Jesus and the apostles used and quoted from the Septuagint. Is this true or is this wishful thinking? And how can we know for sure?

If we look at the New Testament as written, many (though not all) of the OT quotes are from the Septuagint -- we can tell, because the precise Greek wording of the Septuagint is used.

For example (bolding identical words):

Mark 7:6-7: ὁ δὲ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· καλῶς ἐπροφήτευσεν Ἡσαΐας περὶ ὑμῶν τῶν ὑποκριτῶν, ὡς γέγραπται ὅτι οὗτος ὁ λαὸς τοῖς χείλεσίν με τιμᾷ, ἡ δὲ καρδία αὐτῶν πόρρω ἀπέχει ἀπ’ ἐμοῦ· μάτην δὲ σέβονταί με διδάσκοντες διδασκαλίας ἐντάλματα ἀνθρώπων. (And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honours me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.&#8217

Isaiah 29:13 (Septuagint): Καὶ εἶπε Κύριος· ἐγγίζει μοι ὁ λαὸς οὗτος ἐν τῷ στόματι αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐν τοῖς χείλεσιν αὐτῶν τιμῶσί με, ἡ δὲ καρδία αὐτῶν πόρρω ἀπέχει ἀπ᾿ ἐμοῦ· μάτην δὲ σέβονταί με διδάσκοντες ἐντάλματα ἀνθρώπων καὶ διδασκαλίας. (And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men.)

This doesn't necessarily mean that Jesus (probably speaking mostly in Aramaic) quoted the Septuagint, because the gospel-writers may have simply looked up the verses Jesus quoted in the Septuagint.

 

[Biblicist]

If you delve into the better contemporary commentaries you will find that when a commentator publishes his book for fellow academics and Bible teachers that they will frequently refer to how a specific Biblical writer has employed a passage from either the Hebrew text or from the Greek Septuagint.

As much as we all like to feel that words are concrete and that the Biblical writers were always consistent with their use of Old Testament passages, there can be a difference between a Hebrew and Greek rendition of a word or passage but this is simply a factor with the limitation of human language.

You might find the following article to be helpful:
https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/te...les/bsac-nt/harrison-lxximportance-pt2-bs.pdf

 

[pawnraider]

If we look at the New Testament as written, many (though not all) of the OT quotes are from the Septuagint -- we can tell, because the precise Greek wording of the Septuagint is used.

The thing that I find interesting is that we do not really know if they used the Septuagint at all. While we make assumptions and comparisons there's no degree of certainty that they did. The Old Testament that they had was written in Hebrew. The translators or the KJV or whatever version that you use translated the Old Testament from the Hebrew so there's bound to be similarities between the Septuagint and the Greek the translators of today translated from.

 

[Biblicist]

The thing that I find interesting is that we do not really know if they used the Septuagint at all. While we make assumptions and comparisons there's no degree of certainty that they did. The Old Testament that they had was written in Hebrew. The translators or the KJV or whatever version that you use translated the Old Testament from the Hebrew so there's bound to be similarities between the Septuagint and the Greek the translators of today translated from.

The use of the Septuagint by the NT writers is well established where no scholar worth his salt would dare challenge that the NT writers often chose to refer to a Greek OT passage over a Hebrew passage.

If you do Google search on "Paul's use of the Septuagint" you will come across a lot of helpful articles particularly with those links that point to Google Books where you will be able to get a good overview of the question.

 

[Radagast]

The thing that I find interesting is that we do not really know if they used the Septuagint at all.

We certainly do. See the example in my edited post above.

The Old Testament that they had was written in Hebrew.

They also had the Septuagint -- the Old Testament translated into Greek centuries before Christ. Since most Jews no longer spoke Hebrew, they used the Greek Septuagint much more than the Hebrew OT.

so there's bound to be similarities between the Septuagint and the Greek the translators of today translated from.

Most modern Bible translations translate from the Hebrew text, actually. This means that when the NT writers quote the Septuagint, it may not match what the corresponding OT verse in our Bibles says.

 

[sculleywr]

I saw a video on youtube in which the speaker stated that Jesus and the apostles used and quoted from the Septuagint. Is this true or is this wishful thinking? And how can we know for sure?

The story of the seven brothers referenced in Matthew comes from Tobit, which is only in the Septuagint. Also, there are many quotes from books of Isaiah that make no sense to the masoretic text, but are word for word from the Greek. Evidence suggests that Christ used both Hebrew and Greek texts, depending probably on His audience.

 

[Cody2]

I wouldn't trust it.

No LXX - Another King James Bible Believer

 

[Unix]

Talk about incredible preservation!:

Evidence suggests that Christ used both Hebrew and Greek texts, depending probably on His audience.

 

[sculleywr]

I wouldn't trust it. No LXX - Another King James Bible Believer

Ahh, but the king James version quotes the Septuagint:
1. Let's start small

1 Peter 4:18 "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"
Proverbs 11:31 (LXX): "If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

Proverbs 11:31 (KJV): "Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner."

2) James quotes from Proverbs 3:34 here. Although it is identical to the Septuagint, it is barely recognizable in the King James.

James 4:6 "…God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."

Proverbs 3:34 (LXX): "The Lord resists the proud; but he gives grace to the humble."

Proverbs 3:34 (KJV): "Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly."

3) Again, this verse in Isaiah, which Jesus quoted from in Matthew, is not recognizable in the King James Bible!

Matthew 15:9 (KJV): "But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men."

Isaiah 29:13 (LXX): "…but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men."

Isaiah 29:13 (KJV): "…and their fear of me is a commandment of men which hath been taught them..."

4) Notice Jesus' words in Matthew 21:16 when he quoted from Psalm 8:2. They do not come from the King James Bible, but from the Septuagint.

Matthew 21:16, "…Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?"
Psalms 8:2 (LXX): "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou perfected praise…"

Psalms 8:2 (KJV): "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength…"

5) Revelation 2:26 says, "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:" Will those who overcome rule the heathen, or will they hurt and do evil to them? The next verse quotes Psalms 2:9:

Revelation 2:27 "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron…"
Psalms 2:9 (LXX): "Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron…"

Psalms 2:9 (KJV): "Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron…"

6) Matthew 21:42 says, "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures..." Well, the answer is they sure did not read this passage from the Masoretic Hebrew scriptures, but they did read it from the Septuagint!

Matthew 21:42: "...The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner:
Psalms 117:22 (LXX): "The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner."

Psalms 118:22 (KJV): "The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner."

 

[pshun2404]

I saw a video on youtube in which the speaker stated that Jesus and the apostles used and quoted from the Septuagint. Is this true or is this wishful thinking? And how can we know for sure?

With the discovery of the dead sea scrolls we found there are at least two Hebrew Textual traditions (possibly three) and that the LXX was based on one of these HEBREW textual traditions (and not word for word because Hebraisms and idioms would have made no sense so these are translated conceptually...to convey the correct sense or concept)....thus these do not necessarily AGREE WITH the LXX or quote from it but from the same Hebrew Texts from which they translated into the Greek...

Paul