the self replicating watch argument

[xianghua]

Just make one and I'll concede it's designed.

but if you will just find such a watch. you cant conclude design?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

but if you will just find such a watch. you cant conclude design?

I see you deliberately ignore the part where I absolutely eviscerated Paley's argument.

 

[xianghua]

I see you deliberately ignore the part where I absolutely eviscerated Paley's argument.

no you didnt. since even if we will find a watch with living traits like self replication it still be evidence for design.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

no you didnt. since even if we will find a watch with living traits like self replication it still be evidence for design.

Stay focused. The Watchmaker Argument asserts that nature is not designed, and then attempts to prove that it is. Do you understand?

 

[durangodawood]

no you didnt. since even if we will find a watch with living traits like self replication it still be evidence for design.

This self replicating watch thing cannot currently be made by humans. Nor is it something we'd find in nature.

So I'd conclude its of alien origin, possibly inspired by the aliens' reception of TV broadcast watch commercials from the 50s. So we'd know there are aliens within 60 or so light years of us, which is a pretty neat discovery in itself.

 

[xianghua]

Stay focused. The Watchmaker Argument asserts that nature is not designed

how exactly?

 

[xianghua]

This self replicating watch thing cannot currently be made by humans. Nor is it something we'd find in nature.

So I'd conclude its of alien origin, possibly inspired by the aliens' reception of TV broadcast watch commercials from the 50s. So we'd know there are aliens within 60 or so light years of us, which is a pretty neat discovery in itself.

so you basically conclude design. this is my point too.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

how exactly?

The wanderer concludes that the watch is designed by contrasting it with nature. This means he understands nature to be undesigned.

 

[xianghua]

The wanderer concludes that the watch is designed by contrasting it with nature. This means he understands nature to be undesigned.

what do you mean by "contrasting"? he actually comparing a watch with a creature.

 

[gaara4158]

what do you mean by "contrasting"? he actually comparing a watch with a creature.

Because you assert that a watch could not come together via nature. Because a watch is designed. And nature is not.

 

[Skreeper]

Hey guys I made a new game, I hope you like it!

 

[Nihilist Virus]

what do you mean by "contrasting"? he actually comparing a watch with a creature.

This is what William Paley said:

Spoiler

“In crossing a heath, suppose I pitched my foot against a stone, and were asked how the stone came to be there; I might possibly answer, that, for anything I knew to the contrary, it had lain there forever: nor would it perhaps be very easy to show the absurdity of this answer. But suppose I had found a watch upon the ground, and it should be inquired how the watch happened to be in that place; I should hardly think of the answer I had before given, that for anything I knew, the watch might have always been there. ... There must have existed, at some time, and at some place or other, an artificer or artificers, who formed [the watch] for the purpose which we find it actually to answer; who comprehended its construction, and designed its use ... Every indication of contrivance, every manifestation of design, which existed in the watch, exists in the works of nature; with the difference, on the side of nature, of being greater or more, and that in a degree which exceeds all computation.”

He is contrasting the watch with a rock. Not comparing it to a creature. You even said this yourself in the OP:

many of you may heared about the watch argument by william paley (if a watch need a designer because it cant evolve naturally then also nature need one, because its more complex and have a design traits like a watch

After this you go on to bring up the flagellum, but you started this very thread saying that the watch is compared with nature. Now that I have wrecked this line of thinking, you are trying to change what you said.

Also, you closed out the OP with,

thus, paley watch a rgument is still valid to this day.

And I have shown in excruciating detail that this is false.

 

[Willby]

If we apply the term watch as loosely as motor has been then, no I don't think a self-replicating watch needs a designer.

Suprachiasmatic nucleus - Wikipedia

EDIT: OK not exactly 'self-replicating' but a cool bit of biology.

 

[xianghua]

He is contrasting the watch with a rock. Not comparing it to a creature. You even said this yourself in the OP:

im still not sure what are you refer to (maby because my english but im not sure). so what if he compare it with a rock? he still conclude design because the watch complexity. and therefore conclude the same for a living creature.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

im still not sure what are you refer to (maby because my english but im not sure). so what if he compare it with a rock? he still conclude design because the watch complexity. and therefore conclude the same for a living creature.

I have concluded that you are a Poe.

 

[durangodawood]

so you basically conclude design. this is my point too.

Yes. But its not much of a point to conclude a wristwatch-like object is designed.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

@xianghua your argument is basically:

If you find an alien lifeform that outwardly resembles a human manufactured object would you conclude it is designed?

Please explain in more detail what other information is available:
How does this thing self-replicate?
How does it feed?
How does it move?
Is it just the watch face that is mimicked or is there a strap, too?
Is it a single specimen or is there a herd of them?
Are we able to perform tests on it or simply observe it?
Is there any obvious function for the apparent design eg does the watch function as we would expect a watch to function and tell time?
Does the button alter the position of the hands like on a human manufactured watch?
etc

Apart from the fact that your fantasy object does not exist, you have not provided anywhere near enough information for us to come to a conclusion regarding design.

 

[xianghua]

@xianghua your argument is basically:

If you find an alien lifeform that outwardly resembles a human manufactured object would you conclude it is designed?

Please explain in more detail what other information is available:
How does this thing self-replicate?
How does it feed?
How does it move?
Is it just the watch face that is mimicked or is there a strap, too?
Is it a single specimen or is there a herd of them?
Are we able to perform tests on it or simply observe it?
Is there any obvious function for the apparent design eg does the watch function as we would expect a watch to function and tell time?
Does the button alter the position of the hands like on a human manufactured watch?
etc

Apart from the fact that your fantasy object does not exist, you have not provided anywhere near enough information for us to come to a conclusion regarding design.

lets say that all traits is comparable with what we find in a living creature.

 

[Petros2015]

I agree that were we to find an organic, self-replicating watch it would be evidence for design. It just wouldn't be good evidence for design.

It would be evidence that the designer really really wanted to keep track of time, I guess. Why else would you make organic self replicating watches?

 

[durangodawood]

@xianghuaIs it a single specimen or is there a herd of them?

I think the correct collective noun is "cabinet". A cabinet of self-reproducing watches.