• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

the self replicating watch argument

Status
Not open for further replies.

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟534,373.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I have reviewed the evidence and reached a conclusion. See Are There Credible Witnesses to the Resurrection, Part II
 
Upvote 0
Dec 16, 2011
5,214
2,557
59
Home
Visit site
✟251,766.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I have reviewed the evidence and reached a conclusion. See Are There Credible Witnesses to the Resurrection, Part II
You haven't "reviewed the evidence", because the real evidence eludes you, as it eludes all who are not willing to deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Christ:

"Although Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still did not believe in Him.This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:

'Lord, who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?'

For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says:

'He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so that they cannot see with their eyes,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn,
and I would heal them.'

Isaiah said these things because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about Him."
(John 12:37-41)

So, whatever conclusion you've come to has no more truth to it than if a person who has always been blind were to say that they have come to the conclusion that their are no such things as stars in the night sky, because they have never seen any stars in the night sky.

Christ is still performing many signs in our presence, but you can't see them, and won't see them until you are darned good and ready to.
 
Upvote 0

Skreeper

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2017
2,471
2,683
32
Germany
✟91,021.00
Country
Germany
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private

You're basically saying that I have to believe in Jesus before I can see or recieve the evidence. Can't you see how incredibly circular and illogical that is?

Usually you start with the evidence before starting to accept or believe something.
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
the object by natural selection+changes over time.

Still too vague. Just saying the "object" changes doesn't tell me anything. What specifically about the object is changing? What is the mechanism which carries the changes from generation to generation??

For example, when populations of living organisms evolve, where do the underlying changes occur?
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
on the creature.

Okay, you're clearly not understanding.

When biological organisms evolve, the changes occur in their DNA. It's the variation that occurs during DNA copying during reproduction which provides the variation to an organism's phenotype (i.e. the organism's physical structure) on which natural selection can act.

So if you want to suggest that non biological things can evolve in the same manner, then what is their DNA equivalent? Where are these evolutionary changes occurring?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jon Osterman

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
716
473
Glasgow
✟66,548.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So if you want to suggest that non biological things can evolve in the same manner, then what is their DNA equivalent? Where are these evolutionary changes occurring?

That's quite straighforward. In order to make new copies, there needs to be a plan of some kind - a procedure for making them. That plan can be corrupted just like DNA can.
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟534,373.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Christ is still performing many signs in our presence, but you can't see them, and won't see them until you are darned good and ready to.
Got any arguments besides ad hominems?
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟534,373.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
See if this helps. The men in the picture below are either a) making toy trucks or b) making babies. Are you able to tell which?

If it's the latter, does this count as porn?
 
Reactions: Bugeyedcreepy
Upvote 0

Kylie

Defeater of Illogic
Nov 23, 2013
15,069
5,309
✟327,545.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married

No, it isn't evidence. People do lots of things in the name of something they believe to be true but isn't. The fact that your religion has inspired people to do some nice things does not mean your religion is true.

And when it comes to the example you used about the genetic link to alcoholism, then that is TESTABLE. it is possible to go and examine the raw data, even gather new raw data yourself, and conduct the tests again and again.

But what you are asking me to do is to take the beliefs and actions of a certain group of people, and assume that there's no way they can have those beliefs or do those actions UNLESS what they believed was true. That simply isn't the case. Unless you can prove that God being real is the only reason the Church could be able to do these things, then it is NOT evidence.
 
Upvote 0

Jon Osterman

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
716
473
Glasgow
✟66,548.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If it has a self replicating system then it isn't a car.

Why not? If it has the properties of a car otherwise, why would it become not-a-car if you give it an extra property?
 
Reactions: xianghua
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.