the self replicating watch argument

[DogmaHunter]

Yes becuse if one belivers what you say to death that is what happens think of life as a test, we pass or fail by our awnser.

Owkay.
Believing in gravity is a sin.

Uhu.


How does one respond to that?

 

[ScumYetServant]

Yes it is a war life. But there is a way to survive. And I posed it but you focus on one post not several put together. And a monster does not grant free will and a awnser to pass

 

[pitabread]

Owkay.
Believing in gravity is a sin.

Uhu.


How does one respond to that?

I've always liked to believe that if there really is a god that desired people's belief, they'd be able to send followers capable of making coherent arguments.

Because my goodness, some of the preaching on this forum is just bad.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

its actually analogy. we do find a self replicating spinning motor like the flagellum in the first post of this discussion.

Strictly speaking, the flagellum itself isn't self-replicating, it's just part of a self-replicating system.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes it is a war life. But there is a way to survive.

Uhu. Believing in gravity, is quite helpfull to survive, imo.
It prevents me to jump out the window as a means to get down faster and with less effort as opposed to taking the stairs, for example.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Easily. What if only 2 of each basic kind existed in the garden? The multiply thingie would maybe be after they migrated outward from Eden! Now, any tough questions? This is too easy.

Nope. Not at all. Besides, Adam was smart and fast, unlike devolved man of today.

Awww, I thought you were going to use the "time was different then" magic card...

 

[xianghua]

If the truck shows evidence of being manufactured then I will conclude design

but any truck is evidence of manufactured.

 

[xianghua]

This doesn't even make sense as a thought experiment, since ultimately phylogenetic trees are about hereditary relationships between biological organisms. It doesn't even make sense to try to construct them for non-living things in the first place.

but you cant prove that creatures evolved from a common descent too. so its not that different from non living things.

 

[pitabread]

but you cant prove that creatures evolved from a common descent too. so its not that different from non living things.

Look, if this is just going to come down to blanket denialism then there's no point in discussing things further.

If you want to learn more about phylogenetic trees, how they are constructed, and how they support evolutionary relationships, I suggest starting here: Phylogenetic tree - Wikipedia

Here: Computational phylogenetics - Wikipedia

And here: 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Phylogenetics

But if you just want to hand-wave it all away then I really don't care.

 

[xianghua]

If you want to dispute this, then you'll need to present your own analysis. And that means a real analysis, not simply drawing made-up trees in Paint backed by empty rhetoric.

fine. here is a case with about 33 characteristics which contradict the current phylogeny:

Gene Study Shows Turtles Are Next Of Kin To Crocodiles And Alligators

Turtles turned out to be not where they were supposed to be on the family tree whenever their genes were included in a research study," says Hedges"

and if conclude that 14 characteristics is enough to conclude that there is no statistical significance, then its also true for those creatures.

 

[xianghua]

Amazing insights - proclaiming that a watch had to be designed because... we KNOW that humans design and make watches!

so why you detect design in a watch?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Ones intellect can be wrong poison tastes good, does that mean we should drink it? Intellect tell us that too.

So if our mind comes to the conclusion, based on the evidence, that evolution is true, then God wants us to ignore what we have learned, and lie about what we think about evolution?

 

[DogmaHunter]

but any truck is evidence of manufactured.

Because all trucks are manufactured devices.

 

[DogmaHunter]

fine. here is a case with about 33 characteristics which contradict the current phylogeny:

Gene Study Shows Turtles Are Next Of Kin To Crocodiles And Alligators

Turtles turned out to be not where they were supposed to be on the family tree whenever their genes were included in a research study," says Hedges"

and if conclude that 14 characteristics is enough to conclude that there is no statistical significance, then its also true for those creatures.

From the summary of that article:

Turtles, not birds, have been found to be the closest relatives of crocodiles and alligators, according to an analysis of the largest available collection of reptile genes. The study's conclusions contradict decades of research based on anatomical and fossil studies

In other words, comparative genetics corrected for mistakes made during comparative anatomy studies.

Also, the paper being discussed here, is from 1999. So some 20 years old. Hardly news.

 

[DogmaHunter]

so why you detect design in a watch?

Because it bears the hallmarks of manufacturing.

 

[ScumYetServant]

So if our mind comes to the conclusion, based on the evidence, that evolution is true, then God wants us to ignore what we have learned, and lie about what we think about evolution?

Now your twisting what was said. But simply no, God being creator always was and is, and basically the information we learn in our schools today much of it is false and forced on students though the curriculum. That does make a lie true. It makes it a forced lie, that's like rape if u ask me forcing something false on young minds.A theory is not proven and can very well be false.

 

[bhsmte]

Now your twisting what was said. But simply no, God being creator always was and is, and basically the information we learn in our schools today much of it is false and forced on students though the curriculum. That does make a lie true. It makes it a forced lie, that's like rape if u ask me forcing something false on young minds.

In your opinion then, just ignore a well evidenced scientific theory, because it goes against your personal faith belief?

Any other scientific theories and discoveries you think we should ignore? You know, all those discoveries of science you enjoy, every hour of every day of your life?

 

[ScumYetServant]

In your opinion then, just ignore a well evidenced scientific theory, because it goes against your personal faith belief?

Any other scientific theories and discoveries you think we should ignore? You know, all those discoveries of science you enjoy, every hour of every day of your life?

Those of u look were based on creation, so guess what were fine. Strawman theory u got there.

 

[bhsmte]

Those of u look were based on creation, so guess what were fine. Strawman theory u got there.

Prove it.

Go ahead and demonstrate, why one of the most well evidenced theories in science, is all wrong and this theory is considered, the cornerstone of biology.

 

[ScumYetServant]

Prove it.

First prove your side, seems childish that some, not all scientists, forced thease strawman theories on us. Your on the definse friend, not me.