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Clare73

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Previously addressed.
 
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Ligurian

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Ligurian

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And there are obviously different Peters roaming around, back in the day... some of whom I've pointed out, several times... need chapters and verses?
Well, I'm giving them again... for the silent reader to think about. The true oddity is Cephas, a Chaldean word...



This is not orthodox Christianity.

You must be the only one who knows what the code word "orthodox" means.
 
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Clare73

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Saying someone has a forked tongue is not orthodox Christianity, is it?
Which is why I do not present it as such.
Without guile is "an Israelite indeed."
Now, if we can just get rid of the deceit in the doctrine of two gospels.

The forked tongue (deceit) of two gospels is in contradiction to Christian orthodox NT teaching.
 
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Ligurian

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Which is why I do not present it as such.
Now, if we can just get rid of the deceit in the doctrine of two gospels.

The forked tongue (deceit) of two gospels is in contradiction to Christian orthodox NT teaching.
BTW, anything in the Bible can be considered orthodox. The Ministry of Truth is secular.*

Galatians 3:2-5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?KJV

Galatians 2:7-9

John 14:15-17 If ye love Me, keep My Commandments and I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever: the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

_________________
*"As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconsicious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames."--Orwell, 1984
 
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Ligurian

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Only by interpretation of it is anything orthodox.

In the gentile gospel... sure, maybe, if you say so, whatever.

______________
In the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven,
said to the Twelve Disciples at the last Passover:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(John 8:31-32)
 
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Ligurian

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Anyone who denies anything the Bible teaches is not orthdox.
And some people are actually aware of the audience being spoken to.

If I were to read someone else's mail, I would try very hard not to have any opinion at all about the contents or react to instructions given to the recipient. If I overhear a man being told by his wife to go buy milk and eggs for breakfast, I don't get in the car and go to the store thinking that if I heard it at all, then it must have been said to me. The woman... who is reasonable... probably wouldn't blame me for denying to fulfill the request she made to her husband.
 
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Biblewriter

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Yes. And that is why we should not imagine that the promises made to the ancient nation of Israel, apply to ourselves.
 
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Ligurian

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Yes. And that is why we should not imagine that the promises made to the ancient nation of Israel, apply to ourselves.

I completely agree.

Which begs the question: where did the Bible actually come from and who are the Israelites? Do you believe everything written into history books, or do you have a mind of your own?

Why does the code of Hammurabi read like the Mosaic Law? Why do the Nuzi Documents explain the social ordering of that Law? These two peoples aren't called Israelites. Nor are the Sumerians which had much of the primitive materials of the book of Genesis. From how far away did the writings of the Bible actually travel, in order to be found in the Library of Alexandria and translated into the Septuagint?
 
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Soyeong

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A chip off the old block is someone who has the same character or nature as their father and this is the sense that Jesus is the Son of God in that he is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through his actions by setting a sinless example of how to walk in in God's way in obedience to His law, and the sense that we are children of Abraham and children of God when we are partaking in the divine nature through following Christ's example. The fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature, so this is why those who walk in the Spirit are children of God in contrast with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to the Law of God (Romans 8:1-17), why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Law of God are not children of God (1 John 3:4), and why Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing what Abraham did (John 8:39).

In Genesis 18:19, God experientially knew Abraham that he might teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised, namely in Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply his seed as the stars in the heaven, that to his seed He will give all of these lands, and in His seed all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. So the seed of Abraham consists of his physical decedents and those who have become part of his household, who have the same faith as Abraham expressed by doing the things that he did by expressing righteousness, justice and other aspects of God's nature through walking in God's way in obedience to His law.

If the seed of Abraham wanted fulfill the promise of by blessing someone for a day, then they could do them a favor, but if they truly want to truly bless someone for a lifetime, then you will teach them how to be blessed by teaching them to turn from their wickedness and how to walk in God's way in obedience to His law, which is how the seed of Abraham knew how to be blessed (Deuteronomy 28:1-14, 30:11-20), and this is how the seed of Abraham is multiplied, how all of the nations of the earth are blessed through His seed, and how we inherit the promise through faith.

Furthermore, God's law is the way (Psalms 119:1-3), the truth (Psalms 119:142), and the life (Deuteronomy 32:47), which is the way to experientially know the Father, so Jesus was sent as the ultimate fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), and his expression of God's nature through living in sinless obedience to God's law means that he is the living embodiment of the way, the truth, and the life, which is the way to experientially know the Father (John 14:6-7). In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him and Israel how to walk in His way that they might experientially know Him, God's way is again the way in which He expresses aspects of His nature (2 Samuel 2:21-37), God made His way known through His law (Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, etc.), eternal life is experientially knowing God and Jesus (John 17:3), and the way to enter eternal life is by obeying His commandments (Matthew 19:17).

The Kingdom of God is where people are blessed through multiplying the nature of God by walking in God's way in obedience to His law, so that is why Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:15-23), which was a light to the Gentiles, and which he prophesied would be spread to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14), this was the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham (Galatians 3:8), and it was because Abraham was busy blessing people by spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom that God made the promises to him that He did, which is why all of those who who are in Christ by spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom should be considered to be inheritors of the promise by being children of Abraham and of God (Galatians 3:26-29).
 
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Clare73

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Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the promises made to the "seed" were made to Christ alone (Galatians 3:16), and that only those in Christ by faith in him (the Promise) are that seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:29) as numerous as the stars in the heavens.
 
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Soyeong

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That is what Genesis 26:4-5 says, and I see no contradiction between that and Galatians 3, but if do, then it is your interpretation that is in error rather than what God said in Genesis 26:4-5 being in error.
 
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Soyeong

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Genesis states nothing about the promises to the seed of Abraham being spoken to one seed only, as does Galatians 3:16.
So do you think that Paul contradicted Genesis? If so, then do you think that we should believe what Paul said instead of what God said?
 
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Clare73

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So do you think that Paul contradicted Genesis? If so, then do you think that we should believe what Paul said instead of what God said?
Paul doesn't contradict Genesis, he tells us how to correctly understand Genesis.

It's not what it appears to be on the surface.
 
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Minister Monardo

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Many claim that the following passage proves that “the seed of Abraham” means “the church,” so the many promises made to “the seed of Abraham” do not mean his physical “descendants.”
After reviewing the thread, here are salient points that I found to be overlooked.
If I missed a post that covered any of these scriptures, I apologize in advance.

2 Corinthians 1:
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—
by me, Silvanus, and Timothy—was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory
of God through us.

Hebrews 8:
4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer
the gifts according to the law;
5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed
when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, See that you make all things
according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator
of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.


Psalms 89:
3 I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn to My servant David:
4 Your seed I will establish forever, and build up your throne to all generations. Selah


Psalms 132:
10 For Your servant David’s sake,
do not turn away the face of Your Anointed.

11 The Lord has sworn in truth to David;
He will not turn from it:

I will set upon your throne the fruit of your body.
12 If your sons will keep My covenant
And My testimony which I shall teach them,
Their sons also shall sit upon your throne forevermore.

Romans 1:
3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David
according to the flesh,
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness,
by the resurrection from the dead.
5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith
among all nations for His name,
6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ.

John 3:
5 Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit,
he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again.
There are 2 seeds to be considered:flesh and spirit.
1 Peter 1:
22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit
in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,
23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible,
through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
24 because All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers, and its flower falls away,
25 But the spoken word of the Lord endures forever.
Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

Psalms 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted
to the Lord for a generation.

Isaiah 56:
6 Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, and holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
(heavenly Zion and "the church" Hebrews 12:22, 23)
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
Yet I will gather to him others besides those who are gathered to him.

Zephaniah 3:9 For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language,
That they all may call on the name of the Lord,

To serve Him with one accord. (prophecy remains
unfulfilled, as evidenced by this forum
)

Daniel 7:14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom, which shall not be destroyed.

Many claim that the following passage proves that “the seed of Abraham” means “the church,” so the many promises made to “the seed of Abraham” do not mean his physical “descendants.”

What undermined the verity of this thread for me from the start
is that there is no effort to clearly define "the church" in the first place.
Certainly not the wide variety of manifestations of religious denominational-ism
in the world today. From the scriptures cited, one possible way would be
"those (regardless of natural origin) who are born again from above by faith,

who then serve Him in humility with their spirit, in the Gospel of the
Kingdom of God." I acknowledge that more can be said, but this is a start.
Without this definition, everything else was just "business as usual" on this forum.
I did learn a lot about forked tongues!


Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom
I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son,
that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law,
having died to what we were held by,
so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not
the oldness of the letter.

Hebrews 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit
offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works

to serve the living God?

Malachi 3:
16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another,
And the Lord listened and heard. So a book of remembrance was
written before Him for those who fear the Lord and who

meditate on His name.
17 They shall be Mine, says the Lord of hosts,
On the day that I make them My jewels. and I will spare them
As a man spares his own son who serves him.
18 Then you shall again discern between the righteous and the wicked.

Between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.


 
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