The Seed of Abraham

Ligurian

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Because of this passage, these people imagine that all the promises made to Abraham were only made to Christ, and not to Abraham’s physical “descendants.” But when we examine the scriptues carefully, we see that this cannot be correct. For God unquestionably referred to Abraham’s “seed” in other senses than the one referred to here. This can be seen in the following:

“And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. Therefore she said to Abraham, ‘Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.’ And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham's sight because of his son. But God said to Abraham, "Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called. Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he is your seed.’ ” (Genesis 21:9-13)

But a highly similar promise was made to Abraham a number of years later The words used the second time were almost, but not exactly, identical, saying “In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” (Genesis 22:18)

Seed is always singular.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill Me, because My word hath no place in you.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Genesis 17:10 And this is the covenant which thou shalt fully keep between Me and you, and between thy seed after thee for their generations; every male of you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and you. 12 And the child of eight days old shall be circumcised by you, every male throughout your generations, and the servant born in the house and he that is bought with money, of every son of a stranger, who is not of thy seed. 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with money shall be surely circumcised, and My covenant shall be on your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male, who shall not be circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin on the eighth day, that soul shall be utterly destroyed from its family, for he has broken My covenant.

Philippians 3:2-3 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Matthew 5:19-20 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon the rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon the rock.
7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
 
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Ligurian

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“When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, ‘I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. (Genesis 17:1-8)

“But you, Israel, are My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen,
The descendants of Abraham My friend. (Isaiah 41:8-14)

Thus says the LORD:
‘If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the LORD.” (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

These last two promises are indeed the key to this entire question. For both of them clearly refer to the nation of “Israel,” even calling them “Jacob.” And the first one calls that nation “The descendants of Abraham My friend.” But the second one explicitly calls “Israel” a “nation,” And then promises that “nation” that God would never cast them off. And here again, the Hebrew word translated “descendants” is the same Hebrew word זָרַע, zera’ in our alphabet, that translates literally as “seed.”

(continued next post)

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
 
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Ligurian

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(continued from post #2)


We need to particularly notice that there were no conditions attached to any of these promises. Nor is this just a human idea. For in the New Testament, the same God that made these promises stressed the absolutely unconditional nature of His sworn promise to Abraham, by saying:

“For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, ‘Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.’ And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute. Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast.” (Hebrews 6:13-19)

This passage clearly shows, not only the absolutely unconditional nature of the promises made to Abraham, but alwo the fact that this unconditional nature of the promises of God is fundamental to the Chritian faith. For the fact that God “confirmed it” to “Abraham” “by an oath” is pointed out to have the purpose of showing “more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel.” And then this immutability of the promises of God is made a basis for our own faith. This is why this doctrine is so very important. For if God could legitimately tell “Abraham” that he did not literally mean his physical “desendants,” but that instead, He meant a different people that would come in a future day, He could just as legitimately tell us the same thing concerning the promises He made to us. That is, if the promises made to “Abraham” were not absolutely sacrosanct, then neither would be the promises God has made to us.

Thus we see that the doctrine that “the seed of Abraham” means “the church,” and thus that the promises that God made to “the seed of Abraham” do not apply to his physical “descendants,” is destructive of the very foundations of the Christian faith. For that would mean that the promises that God made to the ancient “nation” of “Israel” will not actually be kept. But God himself twice stated, that if He were not going to actually keep these promises, He would have been lying when he made them. We find this first in a prophecy made to “Baalak” through “Baalam.”

“God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” (Numbers 23:19)

And again, He said of David:

“My mercy I will keep for him forever,
And My covenant shall stand firm with him.
His seed also I will make to endure forever,
And his throne as the days of heaven.
If his sons forsake My law
And do not walk in My judgments,
If they break My statutes
And do not keep My commandments,
Then I will punish their transgression with the rod,
And their iniquity with stripes.
Nevertheless My lovingkindness
I will not utterly take from him,
Nor allow My faithfulness to fail.
My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.
Once I have sworn by My holiness;
I will not lie to David:” (Psalm 89:28-35)

So this doctrine, though widely held, even by many godly Christians, is a deception from the enemy. For if the promises of God were not absolutely reliable, we would have nothing to base our faith upon. And thus, we would have no basis for being certain of either the fact that our sins have been forgiven, or the fact that we will be in heaven. Our entire faith is based on the absolute reliability of every promise that God ever made.

The Covenants/Promises are unconditional for the whole children of Israel... but individually, there are requirements:

Genesis 17:1-2 And Abram was ninety-nine years old, and the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, I am thy God, be well-pleasing before Me, and be blameless. 2 And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee, and I will multiply thee exceedingly.

Genesis 17:10 And this is the covenant which thou shalt fully keep between Me and you, and between thy seed after thee for their generations; every male of you shall be circumcised.

Deuteronomy 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them, Hear, Israel, the ordinances and judgments, all that I speak in your ears this day, and ye shall learn them, and observe to do them. 2 The Lord your God made a covenant with you in Choreb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with your fathers, but with you: ye are all here alive this day. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face in the mountain out of the midst of the fire. 5 And I stood between the Lord and you at that time to report to you the words of the Lord, (because ye were afraid before the fire, and ye went not up to the mountain) saying,
6 I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7 Thou shalt have no other gods before My face. 8 Thou shalt not make to thyself an image, nor likeness of any thing, whatever things are in the heaven above, and whatever are in the earth beneath, and whatever are in the waters under the earth. 9 Thou shalt not bow down to them, nor shalt thou serve them; for I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God, visiting the sins of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation to them that hate Me, 10 and doing mercifully to thousands of them that love me, and that keep My commandments. 11 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the Lord thy God will certainly not acquit him that takes His name in vain.
12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt work, and thou shalt do all thy works; 14 but on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do in it no work, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, thy man-servant, and thy maid-servant, thine ox, and thine ass, and all thy cattle, and the stranger that sojourns in the midst of thee; that thy man-servant may rest, and thy maid, and thine ox, as well as thou. 15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord thy God brought thee out thence with a mighty hand, and a high arm: therefore the Lord appointed thee to keep the sabbath day and to sanctify it.
16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God commanded thee; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest live long upon the land, which the Lord thy God gives thee. 17 Thou shalt not commit murder. 18 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 19 Thou shalt not steal. 20 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 21 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, nor his field, nor his man-servant, nor his maid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any beast of his, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s. 22 These words the Lord spoke to all the assembly of you in the mountain out of the midst of the fire—there was darkness, blackness, storm, a loud voice—and He added no more, and He wrote them on two tables of stone, and He gave them to me.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee(Moses), and will put My words in His mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him. 19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto My words which He shall speak in My name, I will require [it] of him.

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My Commandments and I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever: the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him; but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda: 32 not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took hold of their hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; for they abode not in My covenant, and I disregarded them, saith the Lord. 33 For this is My covenant which I will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith the Lord, I will surely put My laws into their mind, and write them on their hearts; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people.LXX

Hosea 1:9-11 And He said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God. 11 And the children of Juda shall be gathered, and the children of Israel together, and shall appoint themselves one head, and shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezrael.

1 Peter 1, 1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light: 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Matthew 4:15-17 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Nation; 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

John 17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word.
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
 
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The Covenants/Promises are unconditional for the whole children of Israel... but individually, there are requirements:

Genesis 17:1-2 And Abram was ninety-nine years old, and the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, I am thy God, be well-pleasing before Me, and be blameless. 2 And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee, and I will multiply thee exceedingly.

Genesis 17:10 And this is the covenant which thou shalt fully keep between Me and you, and between thy seed after thee for their generations; every male of you shall be circumcised.

Deuteronomy 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them, Hear, Israel, the ordinances and judgments, all that I speak in your ears this day, and ye shall learn them, and observe to do them. 2 The Lord your God made a covenant with you in Choreb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with your fathers, but with you: ye are all here alive this day. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face in the mountain out of the midst of the fire. 5 And I stood between the Lord and you at that time to report to you the words of the Lord, (because ye were afraid before the fire, and ye went not up to the mountain) saying,
6 I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7 Thou shalt have no other gods before My face. 8 Thou shalt not make to thyself an image, nor likeness of any thing, whatever things are in the heaven above, and whatever are in the earth beneath, and whatever are in the waters under the earth. 9 Thou shalt not bow down to them, nor shalt thou serve them; for I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God, visiting the sins of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation to them that hate Me, 10 and doing mercifully to thousands of them that love me, and that keep My commandments. 11 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the Lord thy God will certainly not acquit him that takes His name in vain.
12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt work, and thou shalt do all thy works; 14 but on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do in it no work, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, thy man-servant, and thy maid-servant, thine ox, and thine ass, and all thy cattle, and the stranger that sojourns in the midst of thee; that thy man-servant may rest, and thy maid, and thine ox, as well as thou. 15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord thy God brought thee out thence with a mighty hand, and a high arm: therefore the Lord appointed thee to keep the sabbath day and to sanctify it.
16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God commanded thee; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest live long upon the land, which the Lord thy God gives thee. 17 Thou shalt not commit murder. 18 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 19 Thou shalt not steal. 20 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 21 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, nor his field, nor his man-servant, nor his maid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any beast of his, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s. 22 These words the Lord spoke to all the assembly of you in the mountain out of the midst of the fire—there was darkness, blackness, storm, a loud voice—and He added no more, and He wrote them on two tables of stone, and He gave them to me.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee(Moses), and will put My words in His mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him. 19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto My words which He shall speak in My name, I will require [it] of him.

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My Commandments and I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever: the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him; but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda: 32 not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took hold of their hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; for they abode not in My covenant, and I disregarded them, saith the Lord. 33 For this is My covenant which I will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith the Lord, I will surely put My laws into their mind, and write them on their hearts; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people.LXX

Hosea 1:9-11 And He said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God. 11 And the children of Juda shall be gathered, and the children of Israel together, and shall appoint themselves one head, and shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezrael.

1 Peter 1, 1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light: 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Matthew 4:15-17 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Nation; 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

John 17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word.
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
Yes, only those of faith are counted as the seed.
 
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chad kincham

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(continued from post #2)


We need to particularly notice that there were no conditions attached to any of these promises. Nor is this just a human idea. For in the New Testament, the same God that made these promises stressed the absolutely unconditional nature of His sworn promise to Abraham, by saying:

“For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, ‘Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.’ And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute. Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast.” (Hebrews 6:13-19)

This passage clearly shows, not only the absolutely unconditional nature of the promises made to Abraham, but alwo the fact that this unconditional nature of the promises of God is fundamental to the Chritian faith. For the fact that God “confirmed it” to “Abraham” “by an oath” is pointed out to have the purpose of showing “more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel.” And then this immutability of the promises of God is made a basis for our own faith. This is why this doctrine is so very important. For if God could legitimately tell “Abraham” that he did not literally mean his physical “desendants,” but that instead, He meant a different people that would come in a future day, He could just as legitimately tell us the same thing concerning the promises He made to us. That is, if the promises made to “Abraham” were not absolutely sacrosanct, then neither would be the promises God has made to us.

Thus we see that the doctrine that “the seed of Abraham” means “the church,” and thus that the promises that God made to “the seed of Abraham” do not apply to his physical “descendants,” is destructive of the very foundations of the Christian faith. For that would mean that the promises that God made to the ancient “nation” of “Israel” will not actually be kept. But God himself twice stated, that if He were not going to actually keep these promises, He would have been lying when he made them. We find this first in a prophecy made to “Baalak” through “Baalam.”

“God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” (Numbers 23:19)

And again, He said of David:

“My mercy I will keep for him forever,
And My covenant shall stand firm with him.
His seed also I will make to endure forever,
And his throne as the days of heaven.
If his sons forsake My law
And do not walk in My judgments,
If they break My statutes
And do not keep My commandments,
Then I will punish their transgression with the rod,
And their iniquity with stripes.
Nevertheless My lovingkindness
I will not utterly take from him,
Nor allow My faithfulness to fail.
My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.
Once I have sworn by My holiness;
I will not lie to David:” (Psalm 89:28-35)

So this doctrine, though widely held, even by many godly Christians, is a deception from the enemy. For if the promises of God were not absolutely reliable, we would have nothing to base our faith upon. And thus, we would have no basis for being certain of either the fact that our sins have been forgiven, or the fact that we will be in heaven. Our entire faith is based on the absolute reliability of every promise that God ever made.

I solved the question:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
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Ligurian

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I solved the question:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
 
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Ligurian

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I think the point of Galatians 3:16 is best summed up at the end of the chapter:

Galatians 3:38-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

one, whether Jew or Greek, must belong to Christ in order to be considered part of Abraham’s seed and heirs of the promise.
John 8:37-39 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill Me, because My word hath no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with My Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said unto Him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
 
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Ligurian

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My point was that you are sort of creating a straw man. The “seed” of Galatians 3:16 is obviously a physical descendant, as Christ was a physical descendant of Abraham. the promises (plural) were made to Abraham and his physical descendant, who is Christ.

Paul summarizes at the end of the chapter that whether one is Jew or Greek, IF they are in Christ, THEN they are of the seed of Abraham AND heirs.

Notice, it’s only by being in the seed (Christ), to whom the promises were made (galatians 3:16), that those, whether Jew or Greek, are counted as seed of Abraham and heirs (galatians 3:28-29).


While “many” would agree that Jews are physical descendants counted as Abraham’s seed and heirs IF they are in Christ, are you proposing that the Greeks in Galatians 3:28-29, are physical descendants of Abraham?

The promise was made to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob... the circumcision is a sign of that everlasting covenant between them and God.

The Galatians are from Gaul and spoke p-Celtic.
 
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Ligurian

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And this will also apply during the restoration at the beginning of the millennium. Concerning those already in the land, we are told:

"And it shall come to pass in all the land,"'Says the LORD, 'That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it: I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, "This is My people"; And each one will say, "The LORD is my God." ' " (Zechariah 13:8-9)

And concerning those brought back at the end of that time, we read:

"As I live," says the Lord GOD, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you," says the Lord GOD. "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD." (Ezekiel 20:33-38)

And at the time He returns, we are told:

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves." (Zechariah 12:10-14)

And the result will be that:

"And it shall come to pass that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy--everyone who is recorded among the living in Jerusalem. When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning," (Isaiah 4:3-4)

And:

"But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." (Jeremiah 31:33-34)
Amen.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 is fulfilled by John 14:15-17, John 10:16, Matthew 23:8-10, and Matthew 6:14.

And this is also the physical seed of Jacob, endtime. (not metaphysical)

Revelation 7:3-8 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: sealed an hundred forty four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda, sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben, sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad, sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser, sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim, sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses, sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon, sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi, sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar, sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon, sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph, sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin, sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.
 
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Ligurian

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chad kincham

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The promise was made to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob... the circumcision is a sign of that everlasting covenant between them and God.

The Galatians are from Gaul and spoke p-Celtic.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, he didn’t write to pagans, he was straightening out that churches error in going back to the law of Moses.
 
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Ligurian

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And would you do not even better to believe the New Covenant revelation of the NT.

And if someone else interjects and says "one; he said sheep in the corner, not all the field, meaning the one sheep, the bloody one."
Would you correct him; or would you ignore him?

So let me see if I have this straight. . .

We are to ignore the apostle who was taught personally by Jesus Christ himself (Galatians 1:11-12), who was taken up into the third heaven where he heard things man is not allowed to speak; i.e., Paul (2 Corinthians 12:1-8), and instead believe you regarding Galatians 3:16?

Really? . . .wouldn't that be called chutzpah?

Is that orthodox New Covenant Christianity?

Why does your "orthodox" invariably leave out Galatians 2:7-9?

Unlike Paul, John was told to write what he saw from Heaven.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in Heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.
 
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Ligurian

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The promise was made to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob... the circumcision is a sign of that everlasting covenant between them and God.

The Galatians are from Gaul and spoke p-Celtic.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, he didn’t write to pagans, he was straightening out that churches error in going back to the law of Moses.

You'll need to take that up with Paul, because that's not what he taught y'all.

Galatians 1:16 preach him among the heathen
Galatians 2:15 sinners of the Gentiles
 
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Clare73

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Why does your "orthodox" invariably leave out Galatians 2:7-9?
What does Paul preaching the gospel to the Gentiles and Peter preaching the gospel to the Jews have to do with it?

Are you saying Paul, who regularly went to the synagogue to preach the gospel when arriving at a new location (Acts 12:14-43), was preacing a gospel different that the one Peter was preaching in the synogogues? Are you saying that the gospel which Paul preached in the synogogue in Acts 12:14-31 was not the gospel Peter was preaching?
So how does the gospel Peter preached in Acts 2:14-43 differ materially from the gospel Paul preached in Acts 12:14-43?

Where do you find this contra-Biblical notion in the NT?
Unlike Paul, John was told to write what he saw from Heaven.
And you know this how, since Paul was taken up into the third heaven and also given revelation
(2 Corinthians 12:1-8).

We must have different Bibles, because there is no two-gospel monkey-business going on in mine.
It's the same gospel for both Peter and Paul: Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah, who died for the remission of the sin of those who believe in him. Repent, believe and be baptized.
Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in Heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.
Have you ever read 2 Corinthians 12:1-8?
 
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Clare73

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The circumcision/seed-of-Abraham has more than enough reasons to disagree with Pauline theology... and now they have one more.
This is not NT orthodox Christianity.
 
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Ligurian

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"The promises" were spoken to Abraham. . .and to Christ.

Not all promises were spoken to Abraham (e.g., 2 Samuel 7:12, 16; Isaiah 9:6-7; Jeremiah 23:5, 31:31-34; Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24-28).

But the promises spoken to Abraham come to all those in Christ:
Genesis 12:3 - all peoples of the earth blessed through him, or his seed (Genesis 22:18),
Genesis 12:7 - land promise, fulfilled to him in the heavenly city/land (Hebrews 11:13-16),
Romans 4:13 - heir of the world (i.e., creation of Romans 1:20).

And not only those promises, but all the Messainic promises come to all those in Christ, the Messiah.
Galatians 2:7-9 = two different gospels.


The promises were spoken to the physical seed of Abraham. This is none other than the good news of the Reign of Heaven... which Jesus taught to His lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 10:5--Matthew 11:1 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. = Matthew 28:19-20.

For the physical seed of Abraham, keeping the Commandments of God = Eternal Life = John 14:15-17, John 14:26. Therefore, the John 17 prayer to the Father says the circumcision kept the Father's word, and that those who hear His voice through their witness (John 15:27) will believe Jesus and keep His Commandments, because we believe the Father who gave the Law to Moses, John 12:44-50.
 
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Clare73

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Galatians 2:7-9 = two different gospels
Not if you are going to be in agreement with the rest of the NT.
The promises were spoken to the physical seed of Abraham.
I'm sure you'll understand if I accept Paul's understanding of it, which he received personally from Jesus Christ himself (Galatians 2:11-12) in the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-8), that "the promises were spoken to Abraham and. . .to one person, who is Christ."
 
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Ligurian

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What does Paul preaching the gospel to the Gentiles and Peter preaching the gospel to the Jews have to do with it?

Are you saying Paul, who regularly went to the synagogue to preach the gospel when arriving at a new location (Acts 12:14-43), was preacing a gospel different that the one Peter was preaching in the synogogues? Are you saying that the gospel which Paul preached in the synogogue in Acts 12:14-31 was not the gospel Peter was preaching?
So how does the gospel Peter preached in Acts 2:14-43 differ materially from the gospel Paul preached in Acts 12:14-43?

Where do you find this contra-Biblical notion in the NT?

And you know this how, since Paul was taken up into the third heaven and also given revelation
(2 Corinthians 12:1-8).

We must have different Bibles, because there is no two-gospel monkey-business going on in mine.
It's the same gospel for both Peter and Paul: Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah, who died for the remission of the sin of those who believe in him. Repent, believe and be baptized.

Have you ever read 2 Corinthians 12:1-8?
Galatians 2:7-9 exists, whether you believe it or not.
Two very different gospels, two different peoples.
Galatians 3:2-5 ....VS... John 14:15-17


And there are obviously different Peters roaming around, back in the day... some of whom I've pointed out, several times... need chapters and verses?

I don't, since the circumcision has the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven to teach the Diaspora... to whom 1 Peter 1 says he did preach... so that, this is what Peter preached according to Peter himself:

1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by this Gospel is preached unto you. (Isaiah 40:3-8, John 1:23)
= This Gospel of the Kingdom: Psalms 145:13, 2 Samuel 7:12, 1 Chronicles 22:10, Psalms 45:6-8, Isaiah 9:6-7, Daniel 2:44, etc. ad infinitum.

These are promises to the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, too.
(physical... not metaphysical)
 
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Ligurian

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Not if you are going to be in agreement with the rest of the NT.
The New Covenant
according to The Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
Matthew 3:2 Matthew 4:17 Matthew 5:3 Matthew 5:10 Matthew 5:19 Matthew 5:20 Matthew 7:21 Matthew 8:11 Matthew 10:7 Matthew 11:11 Matthew 11:12 Matthew 13:11 Matthew 13:24 Matthew 13:31 Matthew 13:33 Matthew 13:44 Matthew 13:45 Matthew 13:47 Matthew 13:52 Matthew 16:19 Matthew 18:1 Matthew 18:3 Matthew 18:4 Matthew 18:23 Matthew 19:12 Matthew 19:14 Matthew 19:23 Matthew 20:1 Matthew 22:2 Matthew 23:13 Matthew 25:1 Matthew 25:14

James 1:1-18 Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. Revelation 14:4
Matthew 4:23 Matthew 9:35 Matthew 11:5 Matthew 24:14 Matthew 26:13 1 Peter 1:23-25, 1 Peter 4:17-18, Isaiah 40:3-8, John 1:23, Psalms 145:13, 2 Samuel 7:12, 1 Chronicles 22:10, Psalms 45:6-8, Isaiah 9:6-7, Daniel 2:44.

Matthew 5:19-20--Matthew 7:22-27, John 12:44-50, John 14:15-17, John 14:21, John 14:24, John 15:10, John 15:13-14, John 15:20, Revelation 12:17 Revelation 14:12 Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.KJV

I'm sure you'll understand if I accept Paul's understanding of it, which he received personally from Jesus Christ himself

From Jesus to His Apostle John:

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified [it] by His angel unto His servant John: Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the Testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door opened in Heaven: and the first voice which I heard as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

From Jesus to His Disciples, Matthew 24:3.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
These are the physical Seed of Abraham. (not metaphysical)
 
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Clare73

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Galatians 2:7-9 exists, whether you believe it or not.
Two very different gospels, two different peoples.
That is your misunderstanding of it, which puts it in contradicction to the rest of the NT.
Galatians 3:2-5 ....VS... John 14:15-17


And there are obviously different Peters roaming around, back in the day... some of whom I've pointed out, several times... need chapters and verses?

I don't, since the circumcision has the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven to teach the Diaspora... to whom 1 Peter 1 says he did preach... so that, this is what Peter preached according to Peter himself:

1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by this Gospel is preached unto you. (Isaiah 40:3-8, John 1:23)
= This Gospel of the Kingdom: Psalms 145:13, 2 Samuel 7:12, 1 Chronicles 22:10, Psalms 45:6-8, Isaiah 9:6-7, Daniel 2:44, etc. ad infinitum.

These are promises to the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, too.
(physical... not metaphysical)
This is not orthodox Christianity.
 
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