The second set of ten commandments?

There are various theories on the significance of Ex 34. Some have noted the Ex 20 seem to be basic ethics, whereas 34 is more ritual. Deut 6 repeats Ex 20. In Jesus' time, Ex 20 was considered the 10 commandments. Note that in Mat 5, Jesus comments on the second table of those commandments, and they are also cited in Luke 18:18 ff.

JohnClay said:

Hi are you saying Jesus mentioned the commandments in Exodus 34? I can't seem to find them mentioned there...

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No, ex 20.

JohnClay said:

Why is it that Christians normally follow and promote the old set rather than the new set?

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You are focusing on the external prohibition (dishonoring parents, murder, adultery), rather than the moral equity that these principles summarize (respect instituted authority, look out for the welfare of others, keep yourself sexually pure). These ten sayings are a basic outline of moral duty. The Two Great Commandments further reduce them.

JohnClay said:

In Exodus 34 Moses is given a new set of ten commandments to replace the first.

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Read the context.
Moses smashed the first tablets and they are being replaced.
The other commands are part of the whole ceremonial law and moral law that surround the ten commandments.

JohnClay said:

In Exodus 34 Moses is given a new set of ten commandments to replace the first.

Why is it that Christians normally follow and promote the old set rather than the new set?

In the new set of commandments God said that his name is "Jealous".

Verse 17: "Do not make any statues of gods"

What about a statue of Jesus on a cross where Jesus is God?

Then there is the tenth commandment:

Verse 26: "Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk."

I thought it was surprising...

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I believe......
The first set are moral and the second set are ceremonial and covenental.
They are in addition to the first set even though two are repeated. Ultimately there will be 613 Mitzvot. Blessings.

JohnClay said:

In Exodus 34 Moses is given a new set of ten commandments to replace the first.

Why is it that Christians normally follow and promote the old set rather than the new set?

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God can remember pretty good - and we have nothing telling us in Ex 34 that the set of Ten was different that from Ex 20.

In fact in Deut 5 - Moses reminds Israel (40 years after Sinai) that it is the set given at Sinai with God speaking directly to Israel - that they are to remember and that were in Ex 34 as well.

Deut 5:
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke with you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, 5 while I was standing between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up on the mountain.

IT is clear that God only speaks with Israel face to face - in the Ex 20 event.

Deut 5:
22 “These words the Lord spoke to your whole assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, from the cloud, and from the thick darkness, with a great voice, and He added nothing more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me. 23 And when you heard the voice from the midst of the darkness, while the mountain was burning with fire, you approached me, all the heads of your tribes and your elders. 24 You said, ‘Behold, the Lord our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we have seen today that God speaks with mankind, yet he lives. 25 Now then, why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any longer, then we will die! 26 For who is there of humanity who has heard the voice of the living God speaking from the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? 27 Go near and listen to everything that the Lord our God says; then speak to us everything that the Lord our God speaks to you, and we will listen and do it.’

28 “Now the Lord heard the sound of your words when you spoke to me, and the Lord said to me, ‘I have heard the sound of the words of this people which they have spoken to you. They have done well in all that they have spoken. 29 If only they had such a heart in them, to fear Me and keep all My commandments always, so that it would go well with them and with their sons forever! 30 Go, say to them, “Return to your tents.” 31 But as for you, stand here by Me, that I may speak to you all the commandments, the statutes,

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JohnClay said:

I still think the new tenth commandment ("Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.") is a bit odd.

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As we see in the summary of that in Deut 5 -- that mother's milk statement is not included in the ten ,, even 40 years later it is the words spoken in Ex 20 that are affirmed - when all Israel heard the ten.

JohnClay said:

In Exodus 34 Moses is given a new set of ten commandments to replace the first.

Why is it that Christians normally follow and promote the old set rather than the new set?

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I'm not seeing in Exodus 34 mention of a replacement for the original Decalogue, the previous 10 were not nullified by the giving of a second 10. In fact the text says that what was written on the second set of tablets was on the first,

"Cut for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke" - verse 1

In the new set of commandments God said that his name is "Jealous".

Verse 17: "Do not make any statues of gods"

What about a statue of Jesus on a cross where Jesus is God?

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Christians don't worship images of Jesus, we worship Jesus Himself. The Second Council of Nicea ruled that Iconoclasm is heretical because it undermines the Incarnation: God became man. The Council put some strict rules about images though, for example images of Jesus are acceptable because Jesus, though God, became man--and thus depicting Him as human does not violate the commandment against making images of God. Further, the Council ruled that images of God the Father and the Holy Spirit were not permissable.

Thus images that depict the Father or the Holy Spirit (except symbolically, such as the Spirit depicted as a dove or as fire) are not canonical images and, strictly speaking, violate the 7th Ecumenical Council. That said, it has still happened, moreso in the West than in the East.

So while images are not wrong (indeed, God even commands the making of images for the Ark of the Covenant, the Tabernacle, and later the Temple). So it isn't iimages that are a problem. The problem is two-fold:

1) Trying to depict the invisible and infinite God with visible and finite form, such as was done by the contemporary Pagan societies in which gods were depicted as men, or beasts, or a combination of man and beast, or any other created thing.

2) The worship of false gods and of idols.

But none of this is violated by the historic and orthodox Christian practice of having sacred images. Images of Jesus are taking what God Himself has given as His own visible image: Jesus Christ. For we read of Christ, "He is the image of the invisible God" and "He is the radiance of God's glory and the express image of His Hypostasis". Jesus Himself said, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father"

To behold the visible, tangible, bodily humanity of Jesus is to see God, not to see God in His invisible Essence, but to see God as God gives Himself to us. God became man.

Then there is the tenth commandment:

Verse 26: "Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk."

I thought it was surprising...

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This is why even today Jews don't combine meat and dairy together, in fact strict observant Jews have separate sets of dishes, one for dairy and one for meat, so as to avoid any chance of contamination whatsoever.

-CryptoLutheran

JohnClay said:

The originals were destroyed. These were a replacement. If God preferred the originals he could have repeated them or have 20 commandments. But instead it talks about milk. Why did God make the tenth commandment "Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk"? That implies it is ok to do that with a lamb or a calf, etc.

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Again, Exodus 34:1 explicitly states that what was written on the 10 that were broken would be written again on the new tablets.

God renews the covenant He made already here, and some commandments are repeated, other commandments are given. These don't replace the Decalogue. There are more than just 10 commandments which God gave Israel though Moses. The rabbis count 613 commandments in the Torah, that means there are 603 more commandments than just the 10.

And, again, the commandment against cooking a young goat in its mother's milk has been interpreted by Jewish authorities down through the generations as a prohibition against mixing meat and dairy. It doesn't mean cooking a lamb in its mother's milk is okay where a young goat in its mothers milk is not okay. It would be equally as unkosher to cook veal in milk or to mix meat and cheese on a charcuterie board.

So, to reiterate, these are not a new "Ten Commandments".

-CryptoLutheran

JohnClay said:

Why did God make the tenth commandment "Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk"? That implies it is ok to do that with a lamb or a calf, etc.

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It was supposedly a ritual practice of the Canaanites to boil a young goat in their mother's milk. This seems believable as other wise the commandment against doing so comes across as random.

JohnClay said:

Is there anything else to support this concept besides verse 26? Also most hamburgers mix meat with cheese...

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Cheeseburgers aren't kosher. Jews who follow kashrut don't eat cheeseburgers. For the same reason they don't eat bacon or lobster.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Further, the Council ruled that images of God the Father and the Holy Spirit were not permissable.

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I don't think Pope Julius II got the message. Neither did his interior decorator, Michelangelo.

JohnClay said:

I still think the new tenth commandment ("Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.") is a bit odd.

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Yes it is, but it shows a moral concer about how we eat.

Eating meat is permitted, but while we can raise sheep, goats, chickens etc we are to have some concern for them.
Taking a young animal, not yet weened and coaking it in its mothers milk is! well what would you say?

I have to agree with JohnClay here. Later tradition, which Jesus and the NT accept, is that Ex 20 is the 10 commandments and Ex 34 is something else. However the text is pretty clear that the commandments in Ex 34 are the original 10. It’s one of many inconsistencies in the Bible.