• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Scientific Miracles

I am astonished to know that Quran contains unbelievable scientific facts discovered just in the last century.

This is really amazing.

· Astronomy!

· Mountains!

· Human Embryology!

· Oceans And Seas!

· The Movement Of Clouds!

· The Cerebrum!

· The Shape Of The Earth!

· The Expansion Of The Universe!

· The Sensory Characteristic Of The Skin!

· Formation Of Iron!

· The Lowest Part On The Face Of The Earth!

· The Sequence Of Day And Night!

· The Snow Age!

· New Diseases!

· Cnn Top Ten Discoveries Of 1998

Scientists Declaration



· Keith L.Moore

· E. Marshall Johnson

· T.V.N. Persaud

· Joe Leigh Simpson

· Gerald C. Goeringer

· Alfred Kroner

· Yushidi Kusan

· Professor Armstrong

· William Hay

· Durja Rao

· Professor Siaveda

· Tejatat Tejasen

· Dr. Maurice Bucaille

 

davyuk

You can call me Sir.
Jul 11, 2003
465
20
54
Oxford, UK
Visit site
✟693.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
UK-Labour
I think I've found Rina's source (or one of many):
http://www.beconvinced.com/SCIENCEINDEX.htm

Yes, the mention of a 'chewed blood clot leech thingy' can really be proof that the Qur'an contains scientifically accurate accounts of embryology.

The fact that the description 'God' gives us of an embryo is no better than a child would give upon viewing an aborted fetus seems to be overlooked.
 
Upvote 0

Michali

Teleologist
Aug 1, 2003
2,287
36
40
Florida
✟25,139.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Still, I mean, these are supposed recitations by Mohammed. He didn't even know what he was saying. He didn't just make them up in his free time. I mean... what, did he just start shouting an unknown subject and just happened to hit the nail on the head? If it can be interpretted to make it true, what was the original interpretation? I don't think they had anything alternate than what was literally there. Not until now have we been able to see that these texts are actually more than mere mysticalities.
 
Upvote 0

Arikay

HI
Jan 23, 2003
12,674
207
43
Visit site
✟43,817.00
Faith
Taoist
Lets look at some of their stuff.


Sun moon motion:
First, I shall post all of their verses they used.

"Each one [sun and moon] is travelling in an orbit with its own motion" (Qur'an 21:33; 36:40)
sura 36, verse 40:
"The sun must not catch up the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion."


What can you make out of this?

Beconvinced says that this shows the Kurans amazing knowledge, showing that the sun orbits the center of the galaxy and that the moon orbits the earth. If that is not a vague interpretation, I dont know what is.

To me, it can just as easily be read that the sun travels on one cycle of orbit around the earth, and the moon another. This is nothing new, as people known about the different cycles for centuries before this. No where does it mention what they are orbiting, just tha they are orbiting.

Are vague verses like these the extent of the Korans scientific knowledge?
 
Upvote 0

Mike Flynn

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2003
1,728
35
✟2,069.00
Faith
Christian
Arikay said:
Lets look at some of their stuff.

"Each one [sun and moon] is travelling in an orbit with its own motion" (Qur'an 21:33; 36:40)
sura 36, verse 40:
"The sun must not catch up the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion."

Sounds like the writer is simply describing the natural cycle from day to night to day and the way that the sun and the moon seem to track across the sky. I suppose he had not yet spotted a solar eclipse....

Sort of like Genisis 1:3; an almost poetic description of day and night.
 
Upvote 0

Arikay

HI
Jan 23, 2003
12,674
207
43
Visit site
✟43,817.00
Faith
Taoist
Others such as nostradamus have become famous for making vague statement.

As you can see from the example bellow, you generally have to know where you want to go, and then you interpret lines to get you there.

Unfortunatly I dont know as much about the Koran as the bible, but I would expect that the "science in the koran" groups follow about the same thinking as the "science in the bible" groups.

Vague verses are interpreted into "amazing scientific knowledge." Generally the purpose is to show that the writters wrote about things that they could not have known about, thus it was god inspired.

When a verse is interpreted as bad scientific knowledge (something that science has shown to be false) it is commonly said that the verse was "not ment to be interpreted that way."

By ignoring verses that give bad science, and by having a conclusion to guide their interpretation of other verses, they can make people think the bible (or koran) contains amazing scientific knowledge.

Of course, a great test for this, is, if the bible can give us knowledge that has not yet been discovered by other means. Unfortunatly, we know by history that whenever this happens, it seems to be wrong. Take for example, the global flood, creationism, The Geocentric Model.
The only way people seem to be able to get "correct" scientific knowledge from the bible, is to know the conclusion and then pick and choose what verses and how to interpret them to reach their conclusion.
 
Upvote 0
BARRIER BETWEEN THE OCEANS
DARKNESS IN THE DEEP SEAS
WAVES ABOVE WAVES

BARRIER BETWEEN THE OCEANS
Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity and density.” (1)

we see the divider between the
Mediterranean and the Atlantic ocean. in the base of the rock of Gibraltar. We can observe a colored partition between the two bodies of water, although the naked human eye cannot perceive it in nature. This has become possible by means of satellite photography and remote-sensing techniques. These are partitions that can only be seen and perceived by scientific research and modern technology.God has informed us in the Qur’aan that:
He has let free the two seas meeting together: Between them is a barrier which they do not transgress. (Qur’aan 55:19-20).
Traditionally, there have been two major interpretations of this verse. The Qur’aan goes on to state that there is barrier between them, means that this barrier will simply prevent the seas from encroaching upon each other or flooding over each other.

Proponents of the second opinion ask how can there be a barrier between the seas so that they do not encroach upon each other, while the verse indicates that the seas meet together? They concluded that the seas do not meet and sought another meaning for the term "maraja". But now modern science provides us with enough information to settle this issue. The seas do meet together( the Mediterranean and Atlantic Ocean). Even though there is a slanted water barrier between them, we now know that through this barrier the water from each sea passes to the other. But when we the water from one sea enters the other sea, it looses its distinctive characteristics and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way, this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters. This is an excellent example of Islamic modern scientific research. Modern techniques can thus be used to prove the inimitability of the Qur’aan.

Modern Science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a ”pycnocline zone with a marked density.
(2) discontinuity seperating the two layers.” This partition (zone of seperation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water (3)
“He is the one who has let free the two bodies of flowing water, one palatable and sweet, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a FORBIDDING PARTITION.” QURAN (25:53)


DARKNESS IN A DEEP SEA


“ Or is like the darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds. Darkness, one above another. If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it...” QURAN (24:40)
The darkness in deep seas and oceans is found around a depth of 200 metres and below. At this depth, there is almost no light. Below a dept of 1000 metres there is no light at all. (4)

WAVES ABOVE WAVES
“ Or is like the darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds. Darkness, one above another. If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it...” QURAN (24:40)
Scientists have only recently discovered that there are internal waves which “occur on density interfaces between layers of different densities. (5)

The internal waves cover the deep waters of seas and oceans because the deep waters have a higher density than the waters above them. Internal waves act like surface waves. They can also break just like surface waves. Internal waves cannot be seen by the human eye, but they can be detected by studying temperature or salinity changes at a given location. (6)

What Shape is the Earth?
Today we can look at a globe and know that the earth is somewhat like a ball, a sphere. The Qur’an makes certain statements that led Muslim scientists to understand long before their European counterparts that the earth is spherical. When Europe was in the dark ages thinking that the earth was flat, Muslim students were using globes for studying the earth in Islamic universities.

Since it was not the purpose of the Qur’an to teach science, the Qur’an did not need to state explicitly that the earth is spherical in shape (or more precisely, a geoid). But some of what the Qur’an says stimulates you to think of the world as a globe. Take, for example, the following verse:

“Have you not seen how God merges the night into the day and merges the day into the night?” (Qur’an 31:29).

Another verse tells us that God coils the day and night around:

“He coils the night upon the day and He coils the day upon the night” (Qur’an 39:5).

The word ‘coils’ in the verse above is a translation of the Arabic verb kawwara which is used in describing the action of coiling a turban around the head. To understand this statement fully, readers of the Qur’an had to think of the earth as a sphere.

To fully appreciate the above two statements in the Qur’an, try this experiment at home:

You need a flashlight and a globe. Take these items into a dark room. Using the flashlight to simulate the light of the sun, shine the light upon the globe. Notice that only one half of the globe is lighted up. The other half is in darkness. Half the world is having day, the other half is having night. Now, recall that the earth is continuously rotating on its axis and will go around completely in twenty four hours. Slowly turn the globe around to simulate this rotation. Notice that as the globe turns, the day is going around the globe to light up the other half of the world. The night is also going around the globe to give rest to the other half of the world.

The day and night are perpetually coiling around the earth with some degree ofinterpenetration. This is exactly how it appears to astronauts during their space flights.

Dr. Bucaille makes the following remark: “This process of perpetual coiling, including the interpenetration of one sector by another, is expressed in the Qur’an just as if the concept of the earth’s roundness had already been conceived at the time — which was obviously not the case.” (The Bible, the Qur’an and Science, p. 165).

This obviously did not reflect the level of learning of the time, but was helpful in stimulating Muslim scientists to conceive of the earth in its real shape. How couldthis knowledge get into the Qur’an?


How Many Earths are There?

If you open the Qur’an to the first surah, you will notice it begins as follows:

“In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds.” Worlds? Not just one? Yes . . . worlds! There is the physical world, the spiritual world, the world of bacteria, and so forth. That, obviously, is one sense in which we can understand ‘worlds’. Another verse of the Qur’an, however, makes it clear that there are many earths (see Qur’an 65:12). Is it possible that there may be other earths out there? No one expects to find another earth within our solar system.

But scientists say it is likely that in our galaxy there are many earths outside the solar system. They say that approximately 50 billion stars in the Milky Way rotate slowly, as does the sun. This characteristic indicates that those stars are surrounded by planets that are their satellites. The Bernard Star, for example, is believed to have at least one planetary companion. (see The Bible, the Qur’an and Science, p. 148). Dr. Bucaille quotes
P. Guérin as follows:

“All the evidence points to the fact that planetary systems are scattered in profusion all over the universe. The solar system and the earth are not unique” (p. 148-9).

In a recent article published in the Toronto Star, two scientists advanced evidence that there may indeed be many earths waiting to be discovered. The headline read: “Earths may be dime a dozen out there.”

The Qur’an also uses the symbolic plural number 7 to indicate the exist ence of a plurality of heavens (see Qur’an 2:29, for example). Dr. Bucaille comments that this is “confirmed by modern science due to the observations experts in astrophysics have made on galactic systems and their very large number” (p. 150).

Once again we find that the Qur’an says something and scientists later discover it to be true. Can we resist believing in this book of God? God says:

“Those who disbelieve in the Reminder when it comes unto them (are guilty), for indeed it is an unassailable Scripture.
Falsehood cannot come at it from before it or behind it. (It is) a revelation from the Wise, the Owner of Praise” (Qur’an
41:41-42).


THE QURAN ON HUMAN EMBRYONIC DEVELOPMENT

“We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah* (leech, suspended thing, blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah** (chewed, lump)” ( QURAN, 23:12-14)
In comparing a leech to the embryo at the transitory stage (alaqah) we find similarity between the two. (1)

Also, the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to the leech which feeds on the blood of others. (2)

The second meaning of the word alaqah is “suspended thing”... The suspension of the embryo, during the alaqah stage, in the womb of the mother. (3)

Suspension of an Embryo during the early stages in the womb of the mother. (About 15 days old) The actual size of the embryo is about 0.6mm.



When comparing the appearance of an embryo at the mugdah stage with a piece of gum that has been chewed, we find similarity between the two.


“We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed, lump)” (23:12-14)


We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the transitory stage (alaqah) is similar to that of a blood clot. This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage. (4)

The blood in the embryo does not circulate until the end of the third week. (5)

Thus the embryo is like a clot of blood at this stage!

The embryo at the mudghah stage acquires the appearance of a chewed-like substance because of the somites at the back of the embryo that “somewhat resemble teethmarks in a chewed substance.” (6)



* Alaqah : Bloodsucker (Pg.92), Suspended (Pg.745), Clot (Pg.146). Elias Modern Dictionary, E-A, 1992
** Mudghah : Chewed (Pg.137) Elias Modern Dictionary, E.A, 1992
(1) The developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., Page:8
(2) Human Development as described in the Quran and Sunnah, Moore and others, Page:36
(3) A brief guide to understanding Islam with colorful illustrations, I. A. Ibrahim, Page:6
(4) Human Development as described in the Quran and Sunnah, Moore and others, Page:37-38
(5) The developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., Page:65
(6) The developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., Page:8


40 DAYS IN THE WOMB
Joe Leigh Simpson, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the North Western University in Chicago in the United States of America. As we know, these chromosomes contain all the characteristics which the new human being will have such as the color of the eyes, skin, hair,etc. Hence, many of the details in the human being’s make-up are determined in his chromosomes. These chromosomes begin to form during the early nutfah stage of embryonic development. In other words, the distinguishing features of the new human being are determined from the very beginning at the nutfah stage. Allah, the Most Exalted, the Most Glorified, has stated this fact in the Qur’aan:

During the first 40 days of gestation, all the body parts and organs are completely, though consecutively formed. The Prophet Muhammad, (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), has informed us in a hadeeth that: In every one of you, all components of your creation are gathered together in your mothers’ womb by 40 days. (Narrated in Saheeh Muslim and Al-Bukhaari).
In another Hadeeth, Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: When forty-two nights have passed over the drop (nutfah), Allah sends an angel to it, who shapes it and makes its ears, eyes, skin, flesh and bones. Then he says, "O Lord, is it male or female?" and your Lord decides what he wishes. (Narrated in Saheeh Muslim). Professor Simpson studied these two hadeeths extensively, noting that the first 40 days constitute a clearly distinguishable stage of embryogenesis. He was particularly impressed by the absolute precision and accuracy of those hadeeths. Then during one of the conferences which he attended he gave the following opinion: So that the two hadeeths that have been noted can provide us with a specific time table for the main embryological development before 40 days. Again, the point had been made repeatedly by other speakers this morning that these hadeeths could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of their recording. Professor Simpson says that religion can successfully guide the pursuit of knowledge. The West, as we said, has rejected this. But here is an American scientist who says that religion, namely Islam, can achieve this with success. By analogy, if you go to a factory and have with you the operation manual of the factory, then you will be able to easily understand the kind of operation that goes on in that factory, thanks to that manual by the factory designer and builder. But if you do not have this manual with you, chances are much less that you will have good understanding of the various processes there.
Professor Simpson said: It follows, I think, that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion, but in fact religion can guide science by adding revelation to some traditional scientific approaches. That there exists statements in the Qur’aan shown by science to be valid, which supports knowledge in the Qur’aan having been derived from Allah.
 
Upvote 0

Arikay

HI
Jan 23, 2003
12,674
207
43
Visit site
✟43,817.00
Faith
Taoist
May I suggest you source your information in your post. I know it has been sourced before, but its always a good habbit to get into, to list where you got the information from.

A question, If you pulled out the Koran text from those pages, could you see exactly what it was talking about, without the need for their explination?
 
Upvote 0
Well.. it seems there are some errors:

“We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah* (leech, suspended thing, blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah** (chewed, lump)” ( QURAN, 23:12-14)

In comparing a leech to the embryo at the transitory stage (alaqah) we find similarity between the two. (1)
That's not true.. the sperm meets the egg outside the womb, so if the Koran says that the drop is made into an alaqah, then that's simply false. The embryo is created outside the womb.


Also the water of the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranian Sea do mix, but very slowly.
Do a search for "Gibraltar inflow outflow meddy" on Google


36:40 It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).
The sun doesn't swim along in an orbit! The sun turns around his own axis. Apparently Mohammed thought both the Sun and the Moon swims along in a orbit around the earth, which is false.

And don't forget the Greeks (before the Koran came) were clever too.
 
Upvote 0

lucaspa

Legend
Oct 22, 2002
14,569
416
New York
✟47,309.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
rina said:
I am astonished to know that Quran contains unbelievable scientific facts discovered just in the last century.

· Dr. Maurice Bucaille

This is called Bucaillianism. What it does is tries to retrodict science into the Quran to give the Quran validity. Basically, it takes passages that were too vague to begin with to give any type of direction, looks at what has been found, and then decides the passages actually represent what has been found.

The problem, of course, is that it also sets the Quran up to be falsified by science. Such as fertilization occurring outside the womb. If the Quran's validity is to be judged by scientific accuracy, then the inaccurate parts have to mean that the Quran is inaccurate. And therefore not from Allah.

Sauce for the goose. It's simply a stupid game for followers of Islam to play.
 
Upvote 0