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The Science of Creation

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Benwilbur

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Creation can be explained in 2 Ways:

I will demonstrate both to you here:

one is that creation involved ex hilo (creation from nothing) BARA in day 1...that is the creation of all energy, laws of physics, all that was needed for the formation of all things.

This Ex hilo is explained in Qunatum physics by way of quantum fluctuations.
Funny is that the athiests always made fun of people of faith to say they are foolish to think ex hilo is possible, or that something can come from nothing.

however this is exactly what physics is now showing us.

The second point is that it what things seem to us. Yes, in one way of looking at it, from your point of view it is as if something has come from nothing, energy and laws of physics have come out of nothing.

however, in both theology and physics I’ll show u why this is just seemingly.

In quantum fluctuations they tell us that in the very early universe the 1st law of thermodynamics SEEMINGLY is violated TEMPORARILY.

two important points, seemingly and temporarily.

Theology: God is light, all things come from God. In Anceint rabbinical studies we see this also that God is light and this light was everywhere, until God closed himself, this light, forming a vacuum, a speck or point in empty space. (this is 500 to 800 year old teaching in Judaism--not a foreign idea)

I can show u now in Genesis that God said, let there be light. He never bara it and never asah it. He commanded it from himself. Also in day 1, 2, this light is from the Hebrew word meaning: OF GOD, OF JEHOVAH, OF PROSPERITY< OF GOODNESS, OF JOY, OF SALVATION.
Not until 4 does the hebrew word change to mean &#8217;a luminous body&#8217;. ther are two words for light in Genesis in the hebrew!

further christ is the light of the world, the feast of lights or dedication, chanukah celebrates this conception of yeshua Mashaich as the light of the world.

we see in the Hebrew also that in day 4, it is saying in Hebrew, now the light formed, by drawing its light from the (light). This light is the light mentioned in day 1 and 2. The sun and moon and stars light were brought to be by the light of the first light mentioned in day 1 and 2, that is the light of god.

God is energy. God is energy because God is light and light is the most basic form of energy. God is also the sum of the natural laws, because he created them.

but in the early universe, the energy was not formed yet, it was being &#8217;drawn&#8217; from the eternal light, that is God, therefore it was still connected to this eternal and infinite source and thus allowed to violate laws, such as quntum fluctuations show us....but once the energy was finished being drawn, the infinite source is no longer connected to it.

We live in a natural world of sin, separated from god and this energy is finite , separated from its infinite source, thus leading to decay and entropy and bound by the laws of physics.

as it seems the energy is creating out of nothing in our perception because we live in the natural world, and to the ancients of judiasm, this energy is merely transferring planes of existence...from its ultimate source of light in the spiritual plane that was everything, everywhere, to this now created plane of the natural world.

So, yes i do think it is correct to say God ex hilo in day 1, or bara (created from nothing) in day 1 as in quantum flucuations...violations of the laws, because this energy was still connected to its infinite source.

So Energy was Transferred but remained connected to God but Not Removed from Its Source, God.

However, at the point of big bang the connection was broken, the umbilical cord cut and the connection was separated, making this energy finite, and thus suffering entropy since it is broken from its infinite source which is why all this energy will suffer entropy eventually. But it will end as entropy will yield its final fate until we are connected once again to our infinite source, namely God.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Funny how it is not atheists, but Creationists who say "Hurr, how can something come from nothing? THEREFORE there must have been God".

I don't see what this has to do with Creationism, though.

The second point is that it what things seem to us. Yes, in one way of looking at it, from your point of view it is as if something has come from nothing, energy and laws of physics have come out of nothing.
Quantum fluctuations only exist insofar as particle-antiparticle pairs are popping into and out of existence.

however, in both theology and physics I’ll show u why this is just seemingly.

In quantum fluctuations they tell us that in the very early universe the 1st law of thermodynamics SEEMINGLY is violated TEMPORARILY.
No, it's not. The First Law is given by:

.

In words: "The increase in the internal energy of a system is equal to the amount of energy added by heating the system, minus the amount lost as a result of the work done by the system on its surroundings."

The scientific consensus on the origin of the universe does not posit a temporary 'break' in the First Law.

Source?

As for the rest of your post, well, there's not much to say. You appear to have meshed together a rudimentary understanding of energy, and equivocated some phrases derived from Hebrew and Koine Greek.
 
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Benwilbur

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You mean ex nihilo.



Energy is a created thing, in the world. It is/was/will be created by God. It is not God. God is not a thing.

We do believe God Exists, and that he is in essence a "Thing"
He Is made up of Energy. Energy of a Higher Dimension. Not this one.
The Fact is that What God does may be above us and that we cannot duplicate his power but it is not Unexplainable.
God is of a dimension higher than ours. at least 7th.
He created Matter in THIS Dimension. But the Idea that he is The HIGHEST BEING is not In our Core Beliefs. And is debated often. It is something which you have to keep an open mind about. And is virtually unknown at the moment.

But Creation is Explainable. Basically Energy to Matter.
God=Energy
Energy Becomes Matter
And we are Matter

That is of course a Very Simple Explanation of it.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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We do believe God Exists, and that he is in essence a "Thing"
On this, we agree.

God is of a dimension higher than ours. at least 7th.

He created Matter in THIS Dimension.
I think you have a serious misunderstanding of the concept of dimensions. A dimension is not a plane of existence, as alluded to by Mister Mxyzptlk background.

That is of course a Very Simple Explanation of it.
That's not even an explanation: energy is not sentient. Unless, of course, your 'god' is an inanimate force?
 
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corvus_corax

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But Creation is Explainable. Basically Energy to Matter.
God=Energy
Energy Becomes Matter
And we are Matter

That is of course a Very Simple Explanation of it.
So, we are, indirectly, made of God?
Has someone been reading too much of God's Debris lately?
 
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Benwilbur

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So, we are, indirectly, made of God?
Has someone been reading too much of God's Debris lately?

In the bible where it states that God Made Light.
If you read it in Hebrew the Actual Statement is that The Light came OF GOD.
He didn't say Let there be light and Light was created from nothing.
But in the Bible it States that IT IS OF GOD.

I think it is just to hard for Most Christians to admit that the Beliefs they have been taught, that God is Unexplainable and Beyond any Scientific Explanations is Wrong!!
I was taught by my Pastor that God is Unexplainable and can NEVER be understood by Us.
While I agree he is FAR ABOVE US!! and Odds are that I personally will NEVER be able completely Comprehend HOW he did things. I do not Believe that he is Unexplainable.
And Yes i Do believe that we are Made of God.
We are God's Children.
Parents Children are made of their parents.
How is so difficult to understand?
 
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Benwilbur

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On this, we agree.


I think you have a serious misunderstanding of the concept of dimensions. A dimension is not a plane of existence, as alluded to by Mister Mxyzptlk background.

There is no misunderstanding, God is of a Higher Dimension. But also he is made of Energy on a Higher Plane of Existence.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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There is no misunderstanding, God is of a Higher Dimension. But also he is made of Energy on a Higher Plane of Existence.
So you keep saying. But can you explain what you mean by the terms 'Higher Dimension', 'Energy', and 'Higher Plane of Existence'? Is a Higher Dimension different to a higher dimension?
 
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Benwilbur

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So you keep saying. But can you explain what you mean by the terms 'Higher Dimension', 'Energy', and 'Higher Plane of Existence'? Is a Higher Dimension different to a higher dimension?

Ok 1st, I think your last sentence is a misprint, I cant tell you the difference between a Higher Dimension and a Higher Dimension.

But I will explain what I meant:

Higher Dimension: God is a being existing in the 7th(or higher) Dimension

Energy: God is Energy. Actual Energy itself. Not Kinetic, heat, light which are types of Energy. He is more of his own "Type" of Energy, would be a way to explain it.

Higher Plane: A Plane of Existence is a place that transends the known universe.


God is a being made of Pure Energy, that exists on the 7th or higher Dimension.
So Far we can scientifically explain, creation, miracles(all of them, healing, rising from the dead etc...), Prophesies, and about everything else in the Bible.
Now the Understanding of What and How GOD did it is easy. Learning to do it ourselves is not as easy.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Ok 1st, I think your last sentence is a misprint, I cant tell you the difference between a Higher Dimension and a Higher Dimension.
No, it was quite deliberate. I was wondering if there's a difference between a "Higher Dimension" (with majuscule) and "higher dimension" (all minuscule). In other words, why do you capitalise the first letters?

But I will explain what I meant:

Higher Dimension: God is a being existing in the 7th(or higher) Dimension
Which does not make sense. Are you saying God is seven-dimensional? A dimension is a length. For example, a three-dimensional object is said to have length, breadth, and width.

Energy: God is Energy. Actual Energy itself. Not Kinetic, heat, light which are types of Energy. He is more of his own "Type" of Energy, would be a way to explain it.
Except there aren't "types" of energy, there is simply energy. There are different ways of expressing it (a photon, for instance, is a 'packet' or 'quanta' of energy), but it is all the same quantity.

Higher Plane: A Plane of Existence is a place that transends the known universe.
Exactly what is a "Plane of Existence", and how does it "transend (sic)" the known universe? I'm not being pedantic here, I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. It seems like your taking pseudo-philosophical words, shoving them improperly into a scientific context, and declaring that an argument.
 
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Benwilbur

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No, it was quite deliberate. I was wondering if there's a difference between a "Higher Dimension" (with majuscule) and "higher dimension" (all minuscule). In other words, why do you capitalise the first letters?
There is no difference sometimes I just hit the Shift when I type.


Which does not make sense. Are you saying God is seven-dimensional? A dimension is a length. For example, a three-dimensional object is said to have length, breadth, and width.
That is true partially. You forget Time is also a Dimension.
WE live in a 4th Dimensional spacetime.
3D Space: the 3 you stated
1D Time: Time moves in 1 Dimension.

God is 7th or higher.
4+ D Space
3+ D time


Except there aren't "types" of energy, there is simply energy. There are different ways of expressing it (a photon, for instance, is a 'packet' or 'quanta' of energy), but it is all the same quantity.
Yes there is simply one type of Energy. But I was explaining that God is not a type, or packet, of energy. He IS MADE OF Energy.



Planes of Existence is a Metaphysical Concept that explain something within our Dimension on a higher plane.
God is in a higher dimension. 7th or higher. made of Energy.

He is not in a higher Plane of Existence if you look back you'll see that you used that term first.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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That is true partially. You forget Time is also a Dimension.
No, I didn't: I talked about a three-dimensional object, not a four-dimensional one.

WE live in a 4th Dimensional spacetime.
3D Space: the 3 you stated
1D Time: Time moves in 1 Dimension.
We live in four dimensional spacetime (though it is likely that there are more dimensions), not fourth dimensional spacetime. The two are quite different.

A dimension is not a 'label' given to our universe, â la Dante's Divine Comedy. A dimension is what an object has length and position in. There are not different 'levels', each one given its own number: there is no Dimension Number One, Dimension Number Two, etc.

God is 7th or higher.
4+ D Space
3+ D time
4D space? 3D time? Where on Earth did you pull these numbers from?

Yes there is simply one type of Energy. But I was explaining that God is not a type, or packet, of energy. He IS MADE OF Energy.
Then answer my initial question: how can your 'god' do anything? Energy is inanimate; it doesn't do anything. I've never heard a theist talk about deities as if they were little more than rocks or wood.

Planes of Existence is a Metaphysical Concept that explain something within our Dimension on a higher plane.
Circular logic. "Planes of Existence explain things on a higher plane". What is a plane?!

God is in a higher dimension.
Which means what, exactly? Are you saying that God is seven-dimensional?

7th or higher. made of Energy.
Everything is made of energy. I'm made of energy. Am I God?

He is not in a higher Plane of Existence if you look back you'll see that you used that term first.
First, you have twice claimed that God exists on a higher "plane of existence". Second, you used the phrase "plane of existence" in your OP.
 
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corvus_corax

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Benwilbur

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No, I didn't: I talked about a three-dimensional object, not a four-dimensional one.
We are 4D Beings. God is a 7D+ Being

We live in four dimensional spacetime (though it is likely that there are more dimensions), not fourth dimensional spacetime. The two are quite different.
Mistype with the 4th and 4 dimensional spacetime

Im not sure what you are saying.
But we exist in 4 Dimensions.
3 dimensions of Space. So we require 3 points or locations to require a specific point in Space.
And 1 D of Time. We only need to state 1 Point in time to reach it. Not 2 Points in Time. or 3.

4D space? 3D time? Where on Earth did you pull these numbers from?
These numbers are the minimum Dimensions required to explain God

4D Space minimum. Because We know God can see us even if we Hide behind doors or w/e.
Picture it like this as we as 3D Space beings can see inside a 2D Box paper. The 2D beings cannot.
Same thing is with god. We cannot see inside a sealed 3D Box but God can. Because he is 4D(or higher) Space

Then answer my initial question: how can your 'god' do anything? Energy is inanimate; it doesn't do anything. I've never heard a theist talk about deities as if they were little more than rocks or wood.
Energy and Matter are both In essence Thigns in thE universe.
If Life can exist in the form of Matter why cant it not exist as Energy as well.
99%(if not more) of the Matter in the Universe doesnt have Intelligence. But that doesnt mean we can assume that all Matter has No Intelligence.
The same can be used for Energy.
So lets say 99%(again probably more) of the energy in the universe might be Inanimate and "Lifeless" But does that mean Life cannot exist as Energy without Matter.

Circular logic. "Planes of Existence explain things on a higher plane". What is a plane?!
Man I cant explain All these terms to you. *sigh*
A plane of Existence is basically as it sounds.
Picture a building with several stories.
The Building represents the universe.
Each floor represents a plane of Existence.
Planes of Existence are just higher or lower levels of Metaphysical "Planes" Basically...

Which means what, exactly? Are you saying that God is seven-dimensional?
Seven Dimensional MINIMUM.

Everything is made of energy. I'm made of energy. Am I God?
Everything is not made of Energy. Energy was Transferred into matter.
We all came OF God. We came From him.
You are made Of your Parents but you are not your parents. We are made of God but we are not God.

First, you have twice claimed that God exists on a higher "plane of existence". Second, you used the phrase "plane of existence" in your OP.

I did not use that word in the Metaphysical Definition but I used it more in a way to explain that God is Above us.
 
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Benwilbur

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Wiccan_Child

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We are 4D Beings. God is a 7D+ Being
Ah, OK.

Im not sure what you are saying.
You were talking of dimensions as if they were labels of different universes.

But we exist in 4 Dimensions.
3 dimensions of Space. So we require 3 points or locations to require a specific point in Space.
And 1 D of Time. We only need to state 1 Point in time to reach it. Not 2 Points in Time. or 3.
Or so we think. It is possible that there are a lot more dimensions; some theories imply the existence of 11 and even 26 dimensional spacetime!

These numbers are the minimum Dimensions required to explain God

4D Space minimum. Because We know God can see us even if we Hide behind doors or w/e.
Picture it like this as we as 3D Space beings can see inside a 2D Box paper. The 2D beings cannot.
I see your point, but a 2D being could still see inside the 2D box, given sufficient technology. Likewise, a 3D being

Moreover, you're presupposing that God's omnipresence stems from his extra-dimensionality. Surely, being omniscient, he knows where we are without even being there?

Same thing is with god. We cannot see inside a sealed 3D Box but God can. Because he is 4D(or higher) Space
So where did 3D-time come from?

Energy and Matter are both In essence Thigns in thE universe.
If Life can exist in the form of Matter why cant it not exist as Energy as well.
Because matter comes in a rich variety of 'types', but energy doesn't. Life is any metabolic replicator, something that requires both matter and energy.

99%(if not more) of the Matter in the Universe doesnt have Intelligence. But that doesnt mean we can assume that all Matter has No Intelligence.
Indeed: humans are made of matter and energy, yet we think ourselves intelligent.

The same can be used for Energy.
So lets say 99%(again probably more) of the energy in the universe might be Inanimate and "Lifeless" But does that mean Life cannot exist as Energy without Matter.
I disagree. Energy, pure energy, does not exist.

That smacks strongly of medieval cosmology to me...

So why can't we see these other planes? The universe looks decidedly non-planey.

Everything is not made of Energy. Energy was Transferred into matter.
We all came OF God. We came From him.
You are made Of your Parents but you are not your parents. We are made of God but we are not God.
I don't know about you, but I'm not made of my parents. I didn't come into being via parthenogenesis.
 
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Benwilbur

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You were talking of dimensions as if they were labels of different universes.
That was not my Intention

Or so we think. It is possible that there are a lot more dimensions; some theories imply the existence of 11 and even 26 dimensional spacetime!
No we do Exist in 4 Dimensions.
The information you are referring to is correct. But your use of it is incorrect.
The Existence of such dimensions is what I have been stating for a while. That God exists in a higher dimension.
But the universe we witness is 4 dimensional. Anything on higher dimensions cannot be comprehended by us. For we are 4th dimensional spacetime.

I see your point, but a 2D being could still see inside the 2D box, given sufficient technology. Likewise, a 3D being
A 2D Being can only see in 1 Dimension as we can only see in 2 Dimensions at a time.
A 2D being using technology could figure out what is past the wall but cannot see anything in 2 Dimensions only 1. Even though we are 3D Space, we can only see 2 Dimensions at a time. So God being 4+ Dimensions of Space can see in 3 Dimensions and therefore can see all sides of a Cube simultaneously as you see the 2 D Object.

Moreover, you're presupposing that God's omnipresence stems from his extra-dimensionality. Surely, being omniscient, he knows where we are without even being there?
You do not understand the way his time works. If you exist in 3 Dimensions of Time. You can move freely around it as you move around your room.
So Picture time like your room. God can move around it and watch, observe and work in all points in time. So for God, Time is irrelevant.
He Literally has an Infinite amount of time to do anything in any point in time.
Omnipresence defines someone who exists in all points in space at the same TIME, Now remember God can move throughout time as he wishes.
It is a very complicated explanation. To understand this you must REALLY think outside the Box. Time is Irrelevant to God. If time is Irrelevant Omnipresence is simply a matter of Having enough TIME to get to every point in space. So he can literally follow you around for your entire lifetime then when hes done go back to another person and follow them around.
Its like having a Time Machine, activated by thought, You can simply talk to one of your friends spend their whole lifetime with them and when they die you go back to their birth and spend their whole lifetime with them. This can be considered omnipresence because You exist in more than one place at the same time.
This is a difficult thing to Comprehend. Very Outside the box.


So where did 3D-time come from?
The 3D Time was explained above. It explains God's Omnipresence and how he can give visions to man of things to come.

Because matter comes in a rich variety of 'types', but energy doesn't. Life is any metabolic replicator, something that requires both matter and energy.
We know that Matter can be broken down. Elements and Even the Subatomic Particles can be broken down into smaller forms.
All matter can be broken down into Elements(atoms)
Atoms can be broken down into many Subatomic Particles, mainly Protons, Neutrons and Electrons. The Proton and Neutron can be broken down into Quarks. The entire Material Universe can be made with only these 2 things:
Quarks and Electrons. Basically. with a few other particles.
Matter's "Types" Are simply Organized by a very Few number of Particles.
Humans require Oxygen, Water and many other Nutrients to maintain its existence. An Energy being would not require fuel. For as Energy it is the Fuel.

-(speculation)Most probably seeings as Material Beings require energy to exist. Perhaps Energy Beings require Matter to Exist(speculation)

Indeed: humans are made of matter and energy, yet we think ourselves intelligent.


I disagree. Energy, pure energy, does not exist.
Not True, just because we have not Found it yet does not mean it does not exist. We have not Found Pure Matter. But the Fact is it can exist.
This August the LHC(Large Hadron Collider) will start up.
It is hoped, and most probably true, that it will discover the Higgs Boson(the subatomic Particle which is responsible for the Mass of Matter)
If it is found that will prove the existence of Pure Matter. If it is proven then Pure energy will most probably exist.
Also Either way something causes Mass, and something causes Energy.
Break matter down enough and you will find the Mass Particle. Break Energy down enough and Pure Energy.

That smacks strongly of medieval cosmology to me...
I don't understand what you mean

So why can't we see these other planes? The universe looks decidedly non-planey.
1: Planes of Existence are Metaphysical, and are not really a branch of Physics but a Branch of Philosophy.
Planes of Existence cannot be seen by us for we do not inhabit them.
We only inhabit 1 of them. Therefore we can only see things in ours.



I don't know about you, but I'm not made of my parents. I didn't come into being via parthenogenesis.
You are Made of your Parents.
Your entire genetic Structure is Made from 26 of your Fathers chromosomes and 26 of your Mothers chromosomes. You are made of your Parents.
 
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