The Schumer Shutdown

[Always in His Presence]

Please point out where I made such a claim? The topic was healthcare costs and results.
And you pulled at least some of those numbers from someone's behind. Average tax rate in Sweden for example is ~23%. Please don't tell me you're yet another one who doesn't under how tax brackets work, that seems to be a very common occurrence amongst US conservatives.

Where does the government get its funds from?

 

[BCP1928]

Where does the government get its funds from?

From imposts, duty and taxes. Same places it always has.

 

[rjs330]

Seriously? In every single instant where some type of government healthcare system like what was talked about was implemented, it has lower costs and better overall health for the population, but you just aren't sure? Really?

Uea becauae those systems were not the US system. Its not not the US tax system or givernment system.

Yeah Im not sure.

 

[rjs330]

UK, France, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland.

There's five. All with differing systems, but all giving universal coverage by different means.

They also have completely different systems. Not just medical, but governmental, budgetary, tax, and size of population and expectations of the populace.

I'm not saying it 100% won't work here ever. But under the current systems it won't. And I'm not in any way confident it will because we aren't Europe.

 

[Always in His Presence]

From imposts, duty and taxes. Same places it always has.

The vast majority of government funding is from taxpayers.

It not free government healthcare. It is taxpayer funded healthcare

And it will bite the middle class the hardest.

 

[Always in His Presence]

How long do you think the Schumer shutdown will last?

 

[BCP1928]

The vast majority of government funding is from taxpayers.

Do tell.

It not free government healthcare. It is taxpayer funded healthcare

You keep saying that as if it was breaking news.

And it will bite the middle class the hardest.

It will bite the health insurance industry the hardest. I think that's one of the reasons we don't have single payer now.

 

[BCP1928]

How long do you think the Schumer shutdown will last?

Are you going to start a pool?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Are you going to start a pool?

Will you join in. At least it would be on topic.

 

[A2SG]

They already recognize that. That's why they hire people.

Then they should treat their employees with respect and compensate them fairly. If they do that, then the likelihood of any "unreasonable demands" coming from a union will go way down.

-- A2SG, unions are not the enemy of any employer who treats his employees fairly.....

 

[A2SG]

Fundamentally, the larger the pool of insured people, the more you can spread out costs. Additionally, a larger base of customers brings more negotiating power when it comes to drug prices and contracts with hospitals, and if hospitals don't have to worry (as much, or potentially anymore) about treating uninsured (or underinsured) patients who can't pay their bills, then they don't need to charge as much for services. That's a big part of why medical care is so expensive in the US - hospitals have to structure their billing to account for the (quite high) percentage of bills that will go to collections and/or remain unpaid.

I don't disagree that moving to a single-payer system might necessitate major changes to our medical care system, but clearly those issues can be solved, given the number of countries that have implemented some form of national healthcare. We certainly shouldn't rush into it, but just because it might be difficult or it might take a while to figure out does not mean that it's not worth pursuing.

Not only that, but the for-profit health insurance industry produces millions every year IN PROFIT. Imagine if that money went to providing health care for people who need it instead. That would absolutely help bring down the cost of health care.

-- A2SG, those high profits are, of course, the exact reason why we'll likely never get a fair, single payer system here.....but there is always hope....

 

[Pommer]

They also have completely different systems. Not just medical, but governmental, budgetary, tax, and size of population and expectations of the populace.

I'm not saying it 100% won't work here ever. But under the current systems it won't. And I'm not in any way confident it will because we aren't Europe.

Yes, we’d have to drastically “change our system”…that’s the whole point.
We’d also have to pare, way, way, way back on our military spending, hence some of the “opposition”.

Being the Number One Country sort of takes it out of you, as a nation, after a while…the United States will soon be a “used-to-be-great” nation, and when we fight over whether to take care of one another, it’s clear our halcyon days are far in the past.

 

[7thKeeper]

Where does the government get its funds from?

I will take the fact that you ignore what I say completely as a sign that you have no answer to my question and that you aren't actually trying to discuss anything with me. Get back to me when you can stay on topic and actually talk with others.

No rebuttal or acknowledgment of false numbers you tried to spread either.

 

[7thKeeper]

Uea becauae those systems were not the US system. Its not not the US tax system or givernment system.

Yeah Im not sure.

Yet, in every single system doing that, no matter how different they are, those are the results. Come on, the excuse that "USA is different" holds no water, all the other systems are different from each other as well.

 

[DaisyDay]

UK has an income tax rate of 40% if you make more than 52k

France has an income tax rate of 30%

Sweden has an income tax rate of 52%

If you truly believe the taxpayer is not paying for healthcare, you are greatly deceived

30-50% of your income for life.

You do know that these are marginal tax rates that only apply to the amount over the particular bracket? If you make over 52K only the amount that is over is taxed at that rate.

 

[NxNW]

Our courts are corrupt, out police defunded, criminals released, not charged, and blood is beginning to be spilled.

But enough about Trump and Jan6. Hopefully Democrats will regain power and prosecute Trump and his criminal administration for their crimes.

Otherwise, it's a false claim.

 

[NxNW]

How long do you think the Schumer shutdown will last?

Hard to say, but Trump Always Chickens Out.

 

[iluvatar5150]

As you would gather from reading my post, it was my own experience.

No, in both cases, the information you had was (at best) second-hand.

In the case of the factory, you said:

"Eventually, the owners of the factory ended up selling out to a different company because they couldn't afford to do business the way things were. The union workers remained, and the next company that owned the factory didn't do so well either and ended up the same way."

Unless you were party to the discussions happening at the upper levels of management, you have no idea what truly motivated their decisions. Maybe the factory was poorly-managed and/or had outdated equipment. Maybe the purchasers only bought it to consolidate competition; or maybe they didn't do their due diligence with regards to the true profitability of the facility.

Union contracts, even the tough ones, typically have processes in place for enforcing standards and holding workers accountable. What you need in those cases are clear processes and strong, disciplined managers who follow them. If your managers are feckless and wanting to avoid conflict, then yeah, stuff will go south.

In the case of your security contract, you said:

"I've also been on the side of being an employee who try to get actions done through unionizing. We ended up losing our jobs as a result of asking too much. It was only a $0.75 raise which the company said they couldn't afford at the time, which ended up being proven soon afterwards."

However, unless you were party to the discussions happening between your company and theirs, you have no idea what your company was actually billing for your services. The differential between what a company bills for labor and what it pays is typically far, far larger than $0.75/hr. From what I've seen, labor services are often billed at 2-4x what the worker is paid. If you'd had 100 FTE guards, that would have come out to an additional $151,500/yr, which is about as much as a single middle-manager would've cost (assuming this is several years ago). Unless the company was on the verge of going under (which still would've been a management issue), somebody above you could've eaten that $0.75/hr without batting an eye.