The Schumer Shutdown

Vambram said:

The far left wants Americans to spend $200 billion dollars a year for illegal immigrants healthcare. The rest of America has rejected that idea.

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Wrong. The left wants healthcare for all, not just for undocumented folks.

GoldenBoy89 said:

Wrong. The left wants healthcare for all, not just for undocumented folks.

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The rest of Americans have rejected the idea of paying for the healthcare of illegal immigrants.

Vambram said:

The rest of Americans have rejected the idea of paying for the healthcare of illegal immigrants.

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Illegal immigrants don’t qualify for taxpayer funded healthcare and even if they did, they’re being arrested, detained and deported at record numbers now so it’s not really an issue anymore, is it?

Vambram said:

The far left wants Americans to spend $200 billion dollars a year for illegal immigrants healthcare. The rest of America has rejected that idea.

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First - if that figure came from Trump or Fox - I reject it. I need a real source. Trump's NPD means he is unreliable and lies with almost every breath.

Second - until the Democrats talk about actually Nationalising over half your hospitals - you don't even have a left - let alone a far left.
(Bernie Sanders would be in Australia's FAR RIGHT for this reason!)

Third - all the studies show immigrants contribute far MORE to the GDP of your country than they take in any welfare or healthcare. Far more! It's a river of gold pouring into your country.

So why all the hate on immigrants? Easy. Sociology 101. To get elected, Trump has practiced the standard tactics of the demagogue. Google Dictionary defines a demagogue as "a political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument."

Demagogues use "othering" - and blame a minority group for ALL the ills of society. It's very 1930's Germany - and can project FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) about differences in race, religion, origin, or sexuality.

The economy or lack of jobs or housing crisis or even American citizens not having enough kids? It's all dumped on the "Other". The immigrants. It's THEIR FAULT! Everything.

It's simplistic, mean, and appeals to the worst in our natures.

And you've swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

And it's got NOTHING to do with the shutdown!

eclipsenow said:

First - if that figure came from Trump or Fox - I reject it. I need a real source. Trump's NPD means he is the father of lies.

Second - until the Democrats talk about actually Nationalising over half your hospitals - you don't even have a left - let alone a far left.
(Bernie Sanders would be in Australia's FAR RIGHT for this reason!)

Third - all the studies show immigrants contribute far MORE to the GDP of your country than they take in any welfare or healthcare. Far more! It's a river of gold pouring into your country.

So why all the hate on immigrants? Easy. Sociology 101. To get elected, Trump has practiced the standard tactics of the demagogue. Google Dictionary defines a demagogue as "a political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument."

Demagogues use "othering" - and blame a minority group for ALL the ills of society. It's very 1930's Germany - and can project FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) about differences in race, religion, origin, or sexuality.

The economy or lack of jobs or housing crisis or even American citizens not having enough kids? It's all dumped on the "Other". The immigrants. It's THEIR FAULT! Everything.

It's simplistic, mean, and appeals to the worst in our natures.

And you've swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

And it's got NOTHING to do with the shutdown!

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I've got nothing more to say to someone who has bought into all the falsehoods and misinformation from the left wing progressive liberals. You don't even appear to believe what the liberals politicians are saying when they themselves have admitted that the shutdown is all about health care for illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants should not even be in America. How many other nations would bend over backwards to accommodate millions and millions and millions of illegal immigrants?

GoldenBoy89 said:

Illegal immigrants don’t qualify for taxpayer funded healthcare and even if they did, they’re being arrested, detained and deported at record numbers now so it’s not really an issue anymore, is it?

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Unfortunately, illegal immigrants are still receiving federally funded healthcare in some states.

Vambram said:

Unfortunately, illegal immigrants are still receiving federally funded healthcare in some states.

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So what? They’re being deported, aren’t they?

You’re not thinking this through. If they’re on a list to receive public benefits then that just makes them that much easier to find and process for deportation.

Traps work better if you bait them with some cheese.

Vambram said:

I've got nothing more to say ...

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Says all MAGA when confronted with reality.

Vambram said:

You don't even appear to believe what the liberals politicians are saying when they themselves have admitted that the shutdown is all about health care for illegal immigrants.

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So predictable it's cliché!​

You've drunk MAGA cool aid. Trump lies with almost every breath.

​

Republicans​

Vambram said:

Illegal immigrants should not even be in America.

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Yadda yadda yadda

"Oh look - the government is shut down because of this awful "OTHER" group! Blame the OTHER! GET THEM OUT! Send them to concentration camps!"

Demagoguery 101

Vambram said:

How many other nations would bend over backwards to accommodate millions and millions and millions of illegal immigrants?

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Unless you can trace your family line back 10,000 years - you're an immigrant.
We're all immigrants.

And really - what percent of America's 330 MILLION people are we talking about?

And what's WRONG with them? They're MORE law abiding and generate MORE GDP than they cost!?

Didn't immigration build America's economy?

I put to you that you are probably in a MAGA church with MAGA friends who whisper MAGA memes and sound-bytes to each other!

But if you calmed down from this Fox inflated fury, slowed down, and actually read more objective news, you might learn more about the world.

You might learn to respect how little each of us can actually fit in our heads about the world we think we know.

You might learn to respect that 'self-evident truths' you've been whispering to each other in MAGA land might not actually be reflected in reality. That excellent statistics collected by Texas crime officials and Homeland security, that have then been analysed by peer-reviewed Social Science experts, show your 'undocumented' migrants do half the violent crime and a quarter the property crime of the average American-born citizen, and the work they do contributes vastly more to GDP than any welfare costs.

So basically - everything you said above is wrong a dozen times over!​

Come into my parlor said the spider to the zillion flies. I'll offer anything , I'll say anything, to get everyone into my parlor. I'll promise everything to everyone, whatever they need or think they need. I'll offer healthcare after making you sick. I'll offer provisions for health that will keep you sick and sicker and sicker still. But don't worry, you will have lots and lots and lots of company , yes, yes, most flies come in so zany, so naively, so completely unaware and even sign their lives away to me - just do what is right, just come on in, just let all this work out! I will help you... no worries.... says the spider to the flies.

eclipsenow said:

Says all MAGA when confronted with reality.

So predictable it's cliché!​

You've drunk MAGA cool aid and believed the father of lies.

​

Republicans​

Several Republican officials and organizations, including President Donald Trump, Vice President JD Vance, the Senate Republican Conference, and Speaker of the House Mike Johnson, falsely accused[110][111][112] Democrats of demanding free health care for undocumented immigrants.[113] This is based on Republican claims—which independent reporters, analysts and oversight bodies have disputed or not substantiated at the scale claimed[114][115]—that there has been widespread fraud in Affordable Care Act enrolment.[116]​

2025 United States federal government shutdown - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yadda yadda yadda

"Oh look - the government is shut down because of this awful "OTHER" group! Blame the OTHER! GET THEM OUT! Send them to concentration camps!"

Demagoguery 101




Unless you can trace your family line back 10,000 years - you're an immigrant.
We're all immigrants.

And really - what percent of America's 330 MILLION people are we talking about?

And what's WRONG with them? They're MORE law abiding and generate MORE GDP than they cost!?

Didn't immigration build America's economy?

I put to you that you are probably in a MAGA church with MAGA friends who whisper MAGA memes and sound-bytes to each other!

But if you calmed down from this Fox inflated fury, slowed down, and actually read more objective news, you might learn more about the world.

You might learn to respect how little each of us can actually fit in our heads about the world we think we know.

You might learn to respect that 'self-evident truths' you've been whispering to each other in MAGA land might not actually be reflected in reality. That excellent statistics collected by Texas crime officials and Homeland security, that have then been analysed by peer-reviewed Social Science experts, show your 'undocumented' migrants do half the violent crime and a quarter the property crime of the average American-born citizen, and the work they do contributes vastly more to GDP than any welfare costs.

So basically - everything you said above is wrong a dozen times over!​

Click to expand...

Everything in your post is filled with falsehoods and false information.

welcome to quicksand territory
forum on the internet

Vambram said:

Everything in your post is filled with falsehoods and false information.

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Cite a credible source that proves Democrats guilty of your false witness against them! "Do not bear false testimony" is kind of meant to be a thing we're careful with, hey?

Except because MAGA follow Trump - and no one can stand up to his narcissism - the whole "Christian Nationalist" movement is thrown off course by defending his constant lies day and night!

Republicans​

Several Republican officials and organizations, including President Donald Trump, Vice President JD Vance, the Senate Republican Conference, and Speaker of the House Mike Johnson, falsely accused[110][111][112] Democrats of demanding free health care for undocumented immigrants.[113] This is based on Republican claims—which independent reporters, analysts and oversight bodies have disputed or not substantiated at the scale claimed[114][115]—that there has been widespread fraud in Affordable Care Act enrolment.[116]​

2025 United States federal government shutdown - Wikipedia​

Actual studies show “illegals” commit less crime​

From 2019:​

"most studies have shown that illegal immigrants tend to commit less crime than the native born"
Gonzalez, Benjamin; Collingwood, Loren; El-Khatib, Stephen Omar (2019). "The Politics of Refuge: Sanctuary Cities, Crime, and Undocumented Immigration". Urban Affairs Review. 55: 107808741770497. doi:10.1177/1078087417704974. S2CID 32604699.

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From 2020:​

We make use of uniquely comprehensive arrest data from the Texas Department of Public Safety to compare the criminality of undocumented immigrants to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens between 2012 and 2018. We find that undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. In addition, the proportion of arrests involving undocumented immigrants in Texas was relatively stable or decreasing over this period. The differences between US-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are robust to using alternative estimates of the broader undocumented population, alternate classifications of those counted as “undocumented” at arrest and substituting misdemeanors or convictions as measures of crime.
Light, Michael T.; He, Jingying; Robey, Jason P. (December 2, 2020). "Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 117 (51): 32340–32347. Bibcode:2020PNAS..11732340L. doi:10.1073/pnas.2014704117. PMC 7768760. PMID 33288713.
Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas - PMC

​

From 2024​

"A range of studies by academics and think tanks have shown that immigrants do not commit crime at a higher rate than native-born Americans. A more limited universe of studies specifically examine criminality among immigrants in the US illegally but also find that they do not commit crimes at a higher rate."
Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica; Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica (July 16, 2024). "Trump says migrants are fueling violent crime. Here is what the research shows". Reuters. Retrieved July 28, 2024.

The Schumer Shutdown continues on and on and on.