The Salem Witch Trials

[MaxP]

Which version of the catechism do you speak of?

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

 

[MoonLancer]

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

Should have told that to the crusaders. When was this line written?

Also i did not see witch mentioned at all throughout the catechism, so i don't see how you can backup your claim.

I however can show the bible explicitly says to kill witches (and doesn't explain how to reveal a witch) and i can also show that witch persecution occurred all throughout Europe. So i don't think you have a very good augment thus far.

 

[Verv]

there had been others in new york and long island between 1665 and 1670, and nine witches were hanged in Connecticut between 1647 1662.

1563, elizabeth I signed a new witch craft act which was particularly hard on fortune tellers especially those who foretold her death. Under this act, 535 bills of indictment were drawn up, and 82 people were executed.

Three witches were tried in chelmsford in 1566, one of whom was hanged. A second was hanged after being tried in 1579, along with another condemned witch. In 1582.. two witches (were) hanged

-page 15

(in scottland) 1607 a total of forty one people were executed for witchcraft

-page 16


by the end of 1645 some 200 peple were longed up awaiting trial in suffolk as a result of hopkins' zeal...

-page 21

eighteen people were quickly convicted and hanged, followed by another fifty...

by 26 july 1646 Hopkins was in norfolk where another twenty witches met their fate... It is uncertain how many died in his march across East Angilia

(for clarification Hopkins was a famous witch hunter)


-page 22

in all, in england, around a thousand died

-page 23


well the book goes on its around 138 pages.

Wow, that's nothing compared to what atheists were dying in Cambodia alone in the Year Zero (1975).

Is that supposed to be an impressive number?

The witch trials in England were not as significant as the amount of people who died in carriage accidents yearly.

 

[MaxP]

Should have told that to the crusaders. When was this line written?

After the Crusades, to say the least. Besides, the idea of the Crusades was not to kick Muslims out of their ancestral homes, but to win back land lost by Western lords in the great Muslim conquests.

Also i did not see witch mentioned at all throughout the catechism, so i don't see how you can backup your claim.

I however can show the bible explicitly says to kill witches (and doesn't explain how to reveal a witch) and i can also show that witch persecution occurred all throughout Europe. So i don't think you have a very good augment thus far.[/QUOTE]
I never claimed the catechism endorses witchcraft. The Church simply recognizes the law to kill witches as a law designed for the Jewish people in order to keep them pure, being the chosen people of God and all. The Church, at least, simply treats witchcraft as it does any other heresy. The golden age of witch hunts was not until after the Reformation.

 

[b&wpac4]

After the Crusades, to say the least. Besides, the idea of the Crusades was not to kick Muslims out of their ancestral homes, but to win back land lost by Western lords in the great Muslim conquests.

Sort of went off the rails with that plan, didn't they?

 

[MaxP]

Sort of went off the rails with that plan, didn't they?

Yeah, it didn't work out too well. Kinda turned in on itself. Turns out feudal lords CAN'T be trusted to do what's right in positions of power. Huh.

 

[MoonLancer]

Wow, that's nothing .

sure just a few thousand here a few thousand there. Christians hanging people over frivolous claims. No biggie.

After all the murder and child molestation in America is nothing compared to heart disease and car accidents right? so we really shouldn't worry our selves about it.

The classical period of witchhunts in Europe falls into the Early Modern period or about 1480 to 1700, spanning the upheavals of the Reformation and the Thirty Years' War, resulting in hundreds of thousands of executions.[1]

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

Posted here because I feel this is more a Ethics/Morality question rather than a life science question
So on to the question

This is a no brainer, lol.

Definitely in spite. Their bible says "thou shalt not murder/kill" and "though shalt not bear false testimony against thy neighbor" or something to that effect.

Yet neighbors were lying all the time about who they "saw with the devil", just to steal the property to add to their own. Oh yah. "thou shalt not steal", right?

By lying about their neighbors/friends, they were basically murdering them.

That's three strikes, right there.

 

[MoonLancer]

I never claimed the catechism endorses witchcraft. The Church simply recognizes the law to kill witches as a law designed for the Jewish people in order to keep them pure, being the chosen people of God and all. The Church, at least, simply treats witchcraft as it does any other heresy. The golden age of witch hunts was not until after the Reformation.

your sources don't seem to agree with you. They do not mention the word witch at all.

 

[MaxP]

your sources don't seem to agree with you. They do not mention the word witch at all.

It also does not mention each heresy by name, either.
Why do you obstinatly refuse to accept a plain fact? Witchcraft is not especially heinous in the Catholic faith.

 

[Chazemataz]

The Salem Witch trials are more of a cautionary tale of what happens when nobody takes responsibility for their actions and the dangers of a gullible judicial system than they are about the dangers of religion.

To understand the trials, you have to understand why they started. There was a slave woman named Tituba who was a slave for a prominent preacher. His daughter (niece?), Abigail, was a little disrespectful brat who did things like laugh and horse around in church, play pranks on people, and was also rumored to have had a relationship with another man's wife.
Tituba was a voodoo practioner from Barbados, and the whole voodoo religion intriqued Abigail for some reason. so, she and some friends snuck out of their houses nightly to do things like divine and summon spirits with Tituba. When they were caught one day by the superstitious and ignorant townsfolk, they were quick to blame things on everyone BUT themselves. The preacher even egged Abigail on, not wanting to spoil his reputation. First they went after the poor, then the sick, then the elderly, and pretty soon there was only a dozen or so people left in Salem. When people realized what had happened, it was too late and Abigail & friends ran away on a ship to some country and were never heard from again. Were there witches in Salem? Only Abigail, one of the most evil females in history.

It's actually an interesting, if frightening, story. The Crucible, which was written by a man who was declared a communist by McCarthy and wrote about the parallels between the witch trials & the communist trials, is one of my favorite books ever, and it's what got me into literature and my current major.

 

[MaxP]

The Salem Witch trials are more of a cautionary tale of what happens when nobody takes responsibility for their actions and the dangers of a gullible judicial system than they are about the dangers of religion.

To understand the trials, you have to understand why they started. There was a slave woman named Tituba who was a slave for a prominent preacher. His daughter (niece?), Abigail, was a little disrespectful brat who did things like laugh and horse around in church, play pranks on people, and was also rumored to have had a relationship with another man's wife.
Tituba was a voodoo practioner from Barbados, and the whole voodoo religion intriqued Abigail for some reason. so, she and some friends snuck out of their houses nightly to do things like divine and summon spirits with Tituba. When they were caught one day by the superstitious and ignorant townsfolk, they were quick to blame things on everyone BUT themselves. The preacher even egged Abigail on, not wanting to spoil his reputation. First they went after the poor, then the sick, then the elderly, and pretty soon there was only a dozen or so people left in Salem. When people realized what had happened, it was too late and Abigail & friends ran away on a ship to some country and were never heard from again. Were there witches in Salem? Only Abigail, one of the most evil females in history.

It's actually an interesting, if frightening, story. The Crucible, which was written by a man who was declared a communist by McCarthy and wrote about the parallels between the witch trials & the communist trials, is one of my favorite books ever, and it's what got me into literature and my current major.

Ummmm.... actually, the girls started "acting strangely," and then blamed it on witchcraft. They drew attention to themselves. They proceeded to point out who it was "bewitching" them.

 

[Chazemataz]

Ummmm.... actually, the girls started "acting strangely," and then blamed it on witchcraft. They drew attention to themselves. They proceeded to point out who it was "bewitching" them.

Eh, there are many different reports of what happened. I like this one better because its more exciting.
Tituba, the Salem Slave: Telling Fortunes and Baking a Witch Cake | Suite101.com

 

[MaxP]

I'm pretty certain it was the way I told it. I could be wrong, but I remember that one of the things that made Salem so remarkable even today is the fact it was very well documented in all aspects, and I've only ever heard it the way I said. But the story you posted in the link seems pretty much the same thing, anyway.

 

[Belk]

Posted here because I feel this is more a Ethics/Morality question rather than a life science question
So on to the question

In spite of. It still happens in modern day with other things. Look at the Kern county child abuse trials.

 

[SiderealExalt]

It also does not mention each heresy by name, either.
Why do you obstinatly refuse to accept a plain fact? Witchcraft is not especially heinous in the Catholic faith.

Not NOW anyway.

 

[SiderealExalt]

The Salem Witch trials are more of a cautionary tale of what happens when nobody takes responsibility for their actions and the dangers of a gullible judicial system than they are about the dangers of religion.

To understand the trials, you have to understand why they started. There was a slave woman named Tituba who was a slave for a prominent preacher. His daughter (niece?), Abigail, was a little disrespectful brat who did things like laugh and horse around in church, play pranks on people, and was also rumored to have had a relationship with another man's wife.
Tituba was a voodoo practioner from Barbados, and the whole voodoo religion intriqued Abigail for some reason. so, she and some friends snuck out of their houses nightly to do things like divine and summon spirits with Tituba. When they were caught one day by the superstitious and ignorant townsfolk, they were quick to blame things on everyone BUT themselves. The preacher even egged Abigail on, not wanting to spoil his reputation. First they went after the poor, then the sick, then the elderly, and pretty soon there was only a dozen or so people left in Salem. When people realized what had happened, it was too late and Abigail & friends ran away on a ship to some country and were never heard from again. Were there witches in Salem? Only Abigail, one of the most evil females in history.

It's actually an interesting, if frightening, story. The Crucible, which was written by a man who was declared a communist by McCarthy and wrote about the parallels between the witch trials & the communist trials, is one of my favorite books ever, and it's what got me into literature and my current major.

Yeah I forgot that religious superstition has nothing to do with it. Thanks for fixing that.

 

[SiderealExalt]

In spite of. It still happens in modern day with other things. Look at the Kern county child abuse trials.

Heck, look at the Inquisition. The last person to die as a result of it was in in the 1850's.

 

[MoonLancer]

It also does not mention each heresy by name, either.
Why do you obstinatly refuse to accept a plain fact? Witchcraft is not especially heinous in the Catholic faith.

the Spanish inquisition? again please provide the exact line you think erratas the bible. I am sorry if i missed it before. I want to make sure you did not post the wrong line.

 

[lawtonfogle]

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". Obvously Biblical. And they still kill "witches" in certain parts of South Africa today. Man, religion has a lot to answer for.

If you found someone using supernatural powers to bring sickness and death over numerous people, and they were found guilty of numerous first degree murders, then the only objection I see to killing the witch is the whole issue of the death penalty in general. Really, killing a witch, as long as we define witches as those who use magick to kill others, is not that bad of a law. The problem comes in when people try to 'prove' someone is a witch. The fact that witches are an impossibility is actually not a problem as long as people would not be stupid about what 'makes' one a witch.