The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

WarriorAngel said:

Without absolute truth, how would it be possible to test the spirit?
Is it a spirit of falsity or one that is from the Lord
Therefore; to know, one must see what the Church has taught since Christ sent them out.
[To teach BTW]

It was the Bishops either writing to an Apostle with a question aka the reply an Epistle.
Or a Bishop requesting the Gospels.

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Every believer has God working in them through faith and to what proportion of faith they walk in. Some are babes unskilfully in the word of righteousness and some are more mature. But the anointing teaches them all things. They also have the scriptures that were given by God through men who walked in the anointing. So, the two bear witness. We have , (as I have shown in this post) three solid ways to discern. God working directly in us, the holy scripture that are profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness, that the man of God might be perfect, thoroughly finished unto all good works. And we have the body of believers who walk in the anointing.

Also, if a spirit denies that Jesus Christ cane in the flesh or the character and salvation in Jesus Christ, we can safely know they are not if God. Also, if the preach another gospel they are not if God and cursed.

WarriorAngel said:

This is untrue but mostly because you try to pitt scriptures against scriptures.

Keys are Authority.
Why did he get them?
Because the FATHER revealed to him alone truth.

You can try to dance around the basic facts.

Yes Paul said that but guess what Peter said in the council. [when everybody was silenced when he stood up]

BY MY mouth the Gentiles....
Firstly, he was the Apostle of the Jews, so is Peter a liar?
No.
Because Peter is the Authority, then it is by his mouth [Teacher of all] that the gentiles shall have Paul.
Because Paul was told to go to him.
Without Peter, then Paul could not.

St Chrysostom [Bishop of the East] in early or mid 300s said Peters chair [ROME] was Teacher of all.

Unless you have a constant straight knowledge of St Paul's exhorting us to keep the ORAL, you have lost at the gate.

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Two kinds of Authority

There are two kinds of authority, official authority and spiritual authority in the word.
An official positional authority is seen in a static office. This kinds of authority will be set up and in place no matter what the actions of the persons who hold that office. This kind of official authority is a set, positional authority. The person who is in this authority holds this place of “authority” as long as they are in that office.
But spiritual authority or the authority in the word from the Lord is rooted in spiritual life and connection to Christ the head, which all the body must be under. This kind of authority is only given or communicated when a person speaks or lives in God’s life in Christ and has Christ working in them effectually, and this is as they live in the word and deed. For without Jesus we can do nothing. If we can do nothing without Him, them what authority does any believer have in them self? And since all believers are to live in Christ and walk in Him, then all believers have this authority.
If all believers have the life of the Spirit, they are capable of communicating this spiritual authority in Christ. And so all believers are to be submitted or subject one to another because Christ works in all parts of the body and we are all members one of another. The mature believers will have more weight or soundness in the word and life as they have been established an settled (Heb. 5:14). But all can have the Word of Christ dwelling richly in them (Colossians 3:16 KJV).
Spiritual authority in Christ and His word finds it’s source in Jesus Christ’s immediate direction and leading by the Spirit. All those who are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God. This is in contrast to the static office of an official or positional authority, where it is not dependent on the leading of the Spirit.
To have a spiritual authority, is not rooted in a person or a position. It flows from Christ Himself in all the body as he makes us perfect and works in us and effectually gives all the measure he wills. Jesus has all authority and is the source of this.
In an official positional authority or a static authority, the authority is vested in an individual and a place he holds. For example Kings and rulers of the gentiles, or also in the Popes of Catholic church who went out of the word of God had their own official authorities among them. They would give them self power to authorize others in their false Gentile authorities and rule over others in such places and static offices. Jesus rebuked the Gentile lordship, and the rulers who have dominion and authority over others as not being the type of authority we are to have in the church (Matthew 10:42,43 KJV). Yet the catholic Church by setting up a man in a static official office in authority, did not have God's spiritual authority and all believers were right to reject this. The cry of false authority against the word of God was one of the reformers cry along with the doctrines of the scriptures.
Only when believers have Jesus Christ in them who directs a person to word or action does that person exercise authority. This is what we are to be persuaded and exhorted and convinced and taught by. This leading of the Spirit in elder/overseers as well if they abide in this walk and this will be very profitable for the saints, for when an elder/overseers holds fast this faithful word he is able to have sound doctrine and exhort and convince the gainsayers and feed others (Titus 1:9 KJV). In this they will HAVE the rule, which is the word of God and God is governing in their heart and as they are in Christ. they (as all believers) live and move in that sphere of influence in them as they walk in the new creation (Galatians 6:15,16 KJV) as many as as walk according to this rule, peace will be on them.
Elder/overseers have a function in the body as those who watch over and feed exhorting and convincing gainsayers etc. This oversight is recognized as they live in the faithful word and their influence is by example as well. But this is not in a simple static position or like the Gentile rulers where those that are great among them are over them in authority.
Jesus Christ is the the Head of the church (Colossians 2:6,9,10 KJV) and we are the body (Ephesians 1:22,23 KJV), if He tells a part of the body to move and act and speak etc, then that part of the body that moves has authority in him. as the Head. The body has NO authority of itself apart from the head. I hope that helps to understand this distinction a bit more? If you all could see this difference many issues could be clarified.
Spiritual authority in Christ is represented and conferred by Him. If a man tries to be in an official positional static authority in the church and rest his authority on that, that can create an abuse of authority, and if he speaks outside of the word then he has no authority in Christ. In the church we are not to be UNDER such rulers over us anyway.
Those in and official positional authority such as Kings and Governors, political men and police etc, must be obeyed as long as they do not go against God's truth and will (Romans 13 etc)
But when a believer speaks Gods word to others in the life and spirit and they walk in the word and reflect the example to others, they do not press others to obey them in their person, but the word of God in their words and life. It is a subtle distinction but an important one. And those who know the true spiritual authority in the body must also themselves be in the spirit. This authority is known only in Christ.
A person can be in an official positional authority and not be righteous or in faith even and still they have that authority. How many Kings have done evil and Governments etc and still retained that official authority?
Spiritual authority is only seen when Christ is working in us. Official authority is seen no matter what the man does and they will still be in that place, unless others take them out of that place.

An example of what I say is when the religious leaders tried to question Jesuscand asked him by what authority he did what he did? They did not recognize his true authority, for he was not a king as they knew it a political leader or religious authority as they were. But His authority is in Him and when he spoke the word he spoke as one having authority, not as the scribes and Pharisees. Similar today, if any man claims to be in the Gentile type of authority over others we can reject that. And if a man speaks error or false doctrine he is not in any authority over the saints and we need nt listen or follow such things. Even though they may say I am the leader listen to me don’t do anything unless I approve or I give authorization.

To all

Two kinds of Authority

There are two kinds of authority, official authority and spiritual authority in the word.

An official positional authority is seen in a static office. This kinds of authority will be set up and in place no matter what the actions of the persons who hold that office. This kind of official authority is a set, positional authority. The person who is in this authority holds this place of “authority” as long as they are in that office.

But spiritual authority or the authority in the word from the Lord is rooted in spiritual life and connection to Christ the head, which all the body must be under. This kind of authority is only given or communicated when a person speaks or lives in God’s life in Christ and has Christ working in them effectually, and this is as they live in the word and deed. For without Jesus we can do nothing. If we can do nothing without Him, them what authority does any believer have in them self? And since all believers are to live in Christ and walk in Him, then all believers have this authority.

If all believers have the life of the Spirit, they are capable of communicating this spiritual authority in Christ. And so all believers are to be submitted or subject one to another because Christ works in all parts of the body and we are all members one of another. The mature believers will have more weight or soundness in the word and life as they have been established an settled (Heb. 5:14). But all can have the Word of Christ dwelling richly in them (Colossians 3:16 KJV).
Spiritual authority in Christ and His word finds it’s source in Jesus Christ’s immediate direction and leading by the Spirit. All those who are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God. This is in contrast to the static office of an official or positional authority, where it is not dependent on the leading of the Spirit.

To have a spiritual authority, is not rooted in a person or a position. It flows from Christ Himself in all the body as he makes us perfect and works in us and effectually gives all the measure he wills. Jesus has all authority and is the source of this.
In an official positional authority or a static authority, the authority is vested in an individual and a place he holds. For example Kings and rulers of the gentiles, or also in the Popes of Catholic church who went out of the word of God had their own official authorities among them. They would give them self power to authorize others in their false Gentile authorities and rule over others in such places and static offices. Jesus rebuked the Gentile lordship, and the rulers who have dominion and authority over others as not being the type of authority we are to have in the church (Matthew 10:42,43 KJV). Yet the catholic Church by setting up a man in a static official office in authority, did not have God's spiritual authority and all believers were right to reject this. The cry of false authority against the word of God was one of the reformers cry along with the doctrines of the scriptures.

Only when believers have Jesus Christ in them who directs a person to word or action does that person exercise authority. This is what we are to be persuaded and exhorted and convinced and taught by. This leading of the Spirit in elder/overseers as well if they abide in this walk and this will be very profitable for the saints, for when an

elder/overseers holds fast this faithful word he is able to have sound doctrine and exhort and convince the gainsayers and feed others (Titus 1:9 KJV). In this they will HAVE the rule, which is the word of God and God is governing in their heart and as they are in Christ. they (as all believers) live and move in that sphere of influence in them as they walk in the new creation (Galatians 6:15,16 KJV) as many as as walk according to this rule, peace will be on them.

Elder/overseers have a function in the body as those who watch over and feed exhorting and convincing gainsayers etc. This oversight is recognized as they live in the faithful word and their influence is by example as well. But this is not in a simple static position or like the Gentile rulers where those that are great among them are over them in authority.
Jesus Christ is the the Head of the church (Colossians 2:6,9,10 KJV) and we are the body (Ephesians 1:22,23 KJV), if He tells a part of the body to move and act and speak etc, then that part of the body that moves has authority in him. as the Head. The body has NO authority of itself apart from the head. I hope that helps to understand this distinction a bit more? If you all could see this difference many issues could be clarified.

Spiritual authority in Christ is represented and conferred by Him. If a man tries to be in an official positional static authority in the church and rest his authority on that, that can create an abuse of authority, and if he speaks outside of the word then he has no authority in Christ. In the church we are not to be UNDER such rulers over us anyway.

Those in and official positional authority such as Kings and Governors, political men and police etc, must be obeyed as long as they do not go against God's truth and will (Romans 13 etc)
But when a believer speaks Gods word to others in the life and spirit and they walk in the word and reflect the example to others, they do not press others to obey them in their person, but the word of God in their words and life. It is a subtle distinction but an important one. And those who know the true spiritual authority in the body must also themselves be in the spirit. This authority is known only in Christ.

A person can be in an official positional authority and not be righteous or in faith even and still they have that authority. How many Kings have done evil and Governments etc and still retained that official authority?

Spiritual authority is only seen when Christ is working in us. Official authority is seen no matter what the man does and they will still be in that place, unless others take them out of that place.

An example of what I say is when the religious leaders tried to question Jesuscand asked him by what authority he did what he did? They did not recognize his true authority, for he was not a king as they knew it a political leader or religious authority as they were. But His authority is in Him and when he spoke the word he spoke as one having authority, not as the scribes and Pharisees. Similar today, if any man claims to be in the Gentile type of authority over others we can reject that. And if a man speaks error or false doctrine he is not in any authority over the saints and we need nt listen or follow such things. Even though they may say I am the leader listen to me don’t do anything unless I approve or I give authorization.

One more thought here, if a man was in a town and was a mayor or police captain etc., and he just became a baby Christian and gathered with the saints. He would not be in a spiritual authority over any or a overseer at that time for he is a babe and his political authority in the world is not the sane in the church. No one should say, “oh, this brother who is the police captain is now our leader because he is the captain in the world”. Yet, this kind of thing has happened today when men are put in a static office and given an authority just because they hold that place. Spiritual authority flows from Christ in us and speaking and living in his word. This is the ones we hear those who have spoken the word of God and their faith follows. We allow ourselves to be persuaded by this word and live they shine forth in Christ. But every part of the body can edify eachother in this way. Yes, each gift has different functions in the body but all work in Christ. No man should think of himself as sone great one in authority over others. We should submit to one another yield to the truth of God and his word.

WarriorAngel said:

We all KNOW Jesus is Rock...
We all KNOW He called Peter Rock.
AND ON HIM He would build His Church.

TBH I am not going read all of that because there is ONE Authority.
The King and in His absence, His steward who has the keys to the kingdom to open and shut doors.

ISAIAH 22.

Jesus spoke that verbatim and barring that understanding of Him quoting that scripture to Peter, I am unable to help you comprehend the scope of the authority he was giving to Peter.

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Jesus said the word “Peter”, meaning in Greek, “a small stone” And there seems to be a word play here with the word “rock” right after, which means “a huge stone.” Jesus Christ is the foundation and no other foundation can any build he us the chief corner stone the huge rock. . The church is built upon the foundation of the apostles (not just Peter) and prophets, Jesus Christ himself the chief corner stone.

Also, as believers, every Christian is a living stone built up a spiritual house.

1 Peter 2: 4. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5. Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8. And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.”

Jesus told Simeon that he was blessed when he said flesh and blood hath not revealed “THIS” unto you. The word “THIS” refers to the revelation of Jesus As the Christ the Son of God. That revelation of Christ is what is referred to . Jesus also said upon THIS Rock will I build my church. The word “THIS” goes back a few words to the “this “ revelation that Simeon had of the saviour Jesus Christ the Son of God.

If a man builds his house upon a rock he will be saved. If that Rock is Christ.

To all

Consider there is no such thing as “Apostolic succession”

Swag365 said:

Well if you are referring to Sacred Tradition as that term is understood by the Catholic Church I can understand your sentiment. If you thought otherwise you would be Catholic. But I think you can see good reasons why there might be an oral tradition that is inspired and guarded by God in a general sense. I think if you are honest you can see that you have such traditions within your own church (infant baptism and the canon being examples).

Is your belief that Sacred Scripture is the revealed word of God not also based on faith? Of course God gave us minds and we use reason to assist ourselves in reaching conclusions, but do you think that you came to the conclusion that Sacred Scripture is the revealed word of God purely as a matter of rational deduction? By highlighting my words above you seem to imply that you have done something different with respect to Sacred Scripture, but that cannot be the case.

It is not as though someone presented you with a scientific proof that the Scriptures are God breathed. You believe that because you cooperated with the faith that God put in your heart enabling you to believe it. Were this not the case you would essentially take the Pelagian position - that it is possible for man to come to God naturally through his own ability, without God first acting within him.

Well as I am sure you know we do not all agree on the Bible as divine revelation. There are books that I believe are divinely revealed that you do not. I do not think the fact that there is disagreement as to what constitutes "Sacred Tradition" is a valid argument against the concept itself. Christians disagree as to which books are inspired. Christians also disagree as to the extent to which the books are infallible. But the fact that there is disagreement as to the content of Sacred Scripture does not mean that there is any problem with the concept that God inspired a particular set of writings. So it is with Sacred Tradition. I so happen to believe that the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church is authored and preserved by God, although there are disagreements among different Christians as to what constitutes tradition.

Of course not. I wrote that you cannot prove that Sacred Scriptures are the inspired word of God to demonstrate to you that at foundational level your belief in that is based on faith, as is mine. If your belief that Sacred Scripture is the inspired word of God is not based on faith, then you should be able to logically, scientifically, or historically prove it to an atheist. We as Christians cannot do that because faith is a fundamental requirement for the belief. Hence St. Augustine writes "Seek not to understand so that you may believe, but to believe so that you may understand."

I gave the inspiration of the book of James, the belief that the words "This is my body" was not meant symbolically, and infant baptism as three examples. For example, as you know, there is no teaching in Sacred Scripture that the book of James is the inspired word of God. Both you and I hold the book as the inspired word of God because it is the tradition of the church.

Well, the inspiration of the book of James is certainly universal. There is no verse in Sacred Scripture that teaches that the book of James is the inspired word of God. That is both your tradition and my tradition. We also share the same tradition with respect to infant baptism and the Real Presence / non-metaphorical understanding of "This is my body" (although I assume you would disagree with transubstantiation). Does your church not hold the inspiration of James, infant baptism and the Real Presence as divinely revealed doctrine that should be held as a matter of faith? I thought that is what your church held, but perhaps I am wrong.

Or are you simply saying that Anglican traditions (which you view as the universally and consistently held traditions) are valid while Catholic or EO traditions are not valid (because you view them as not being universal or consistent)? If this is your position this is fine, but I think the topic of this thread is sola scriptura / tradition generally, not whether this or that particular tradition is in fact the tradition of the church. Of course the various denominations will always disagree in this respect.

Likewise.

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The Holy Scriotures can be proven to be true and of God through a few means. The first is prophecy. Prophesy proved scripture and secondly, we have the witness in ourselves. Also, we can hear the truths spoken of in scripture.

But as faith in the heart of a man, it is an invisible thing to those outside the kingdom. The inner faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11). And Christ dwells in our heart by faith. We look on the things that are not seen.


Also, when Jesus said “this is my body” he was holding the bread . This was obviously a figure if his death abd if they are his literal body there they would not be doing tight. Jesus also said right after that this is the cup of the New Testament in my blood. But no Jew was to eat blood according to old and New Testaments.. This was again a figure of the actual shed blood on the cross.

We know that when Jesus said this it was a figure because of Hebrews 9 . Consider these two sections.

Luke 22: 19. And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.”

And

Hebrews 9: 15. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.”

Here we see that the testament is only in effect at the death of Christ. So obviously when Jesus days that the cup is the blood of the New Testament he is referring to when he will shed his blood on the cross.


And the traditions for the church are found in scripture if you read them in faith. We see what the believers did and said and the order they had. There are many things we see them doing that we’re handed down from Christ and the apostles and prophets.

Swag365 said:

No, the text states that faith was completed by his works.

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When a person has faith in Christ, Christ dwells in his heart. Then the works are of God for God works in us to will and to do and to make us perfect unto every good work.

As the body without the spirit is dead so a person without God in them is dead .

So the works that flow from real faith show a person is in Christ. These works are not “dead works” or ritual outward ceremonies. But the fruit of the spirit and love. Faith works by love.

Philippians 2: 13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”

And consider these verses,

Hebrews 13: 20. Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21. Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”

swordsman1 said:

Only when you show the words out of context as you have done here, omitting the rest of the verse where it clearly tells us what the light is:

"to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."​

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God shines in the heart that shining light from God is the light in men.

The true aLight is in every believer also.

“That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”" ( John 1"9 KJV)

so the Light , lighteth every man.

God is light and God dwells in every believer, and works in every believer to will and do do and to make us perfect unto every good work, working in us that which is well pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ

"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." ( Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV)

swordsman1 said:

The verb to shine doesn't necessarily mean the subject of the verb is the source of light. eg. "John shined the light into the room". (John is not the source of light).

The "shined in our hearts" is directly connected to the next clause "TO give the light of the knowledge", making it obvious that the light God shined into our hearts is the light of knowledge of Christ. There is only one light spoken of in this passage, not two. The light of the gospel is the treasure IN earthen vessels, not the light of Christ.

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No, God is Light, true Light lighteth every man John 1:9. All things that are reproved are made manifest by the light

"...God is light..."( 1 John 1:5 KJV)

"But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light." ( Ephesians 5:13 KJV)

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light," ( 1 John 1:7 KJV)

swordsman1 said:

The Corinthians were seeking proof that Christ was speaking in Paul. It says so plainly.

2 Cor 13:3 "Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you."​

The miraculous powers that Christ had worked in the Corinthians following their conversion at Paul's words was evidence that God spoke through Paul and that he was a bona fide apostle. As this verse and the next makes clear.

It says nothing about Christ speaking in the Corinthians via their feelings.

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God spoke in and through the Corinthians in many places, we read

“That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;”" ( 1 Corinthians 1:5 KJV)

"“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”" (1 Corinthians 12;3 KJV)

They also had the word of knowledge and word of wisdom and prophesied and had revelations and tongues and interpretations and doctrines etc.

WarriorAngel said:

Incorrect.

Kepha is a boulder which is Aramaic.

Translated to Greek they had to use a masculine term for a female noun.
Petros vs Petras.
Petras being feminine would be smaller.

However; the author changing it to masculine meant for the reader to comprehend it is no longer small or feminine but masculine as pertaining to Peter.

AND again Kepha was the original term.

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Petros- G4074- apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle:--Peter, rock. Compare 2786.

And

1 Corinthians 10: 4. And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”

Psalm 94: 22. But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge.”

Valletta said:

Jesus spoke Aramaic, and the Aramaic name Jesus gave to Simon is preserved within Biblical text. That Aramaic name was "Kepha," which can be transliterated into "Cephas." Kepha means Rock in Aramaic.

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No, consider,

John 1: 42. And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.”
Not the Rock.

And The writer wrote in Greek as the New Testament was also. So the Greek is right. And the writers are right.

Valletta said:

In John 6:50-53 the Koine Greek word used for "eat" are forms of "phago." The Jews find the words of Jesus hard to believe, in John 6:54 forms of the word "trogein" or "trogo" begin to be used for "eat." "Trogein" means to chew, or gnaw, or masticate--when challenged Jesus, instead of telling them it is a figure (symbolic) does the opposite and makes it clear that He is speaking literally about eating His flesh.

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Wrong again, Jesus was not speaking of them ripping him to pieces and eating his flesh. That would not have saved them.

And in John 6 Jesus speaks about him being the true bread that came down from Heaven. He said not like the Anna (small heavenly literal bread in the desert they ate) but the true bread which is different.

John 6: 58. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”

As far as him speaking of eating his literal body he said,

John 6: 63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

And consider ,

Jeremiah 15: 16. Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.”

John 6: 27. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.”

John 6: 35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”

This is what I was saying in the beginning of this thread how some can define words literally and show the Greek etc and still not have a clue what Jesus was speaking about. The natural man does not and cannot know the things of God they are revealed only by the Spirit.

So, Jesus is the bread of life that came down from Heaven he is the Word made flesh, and he died on a cross and was buried and rose again. To come to him and believe on him is to believe his death for our sins on the cross and his burial and resurrection. But there is a spiritual aspect to this as well. No man can come into Jesus except the Father draw them. This is where the Father works in them to teach them and if they have heard and learned of the Father first then they come to him.

John 6: 44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

They and we, come to Jesus in our hearts as well. This is an inward faith where Christ dwells in our hearts by faith. We are born again by the word of God abd have the seed (Christ) in us. Jesus says when they believed they would have life in them if they didn’t believe they would have no life in them. This inward life is the new birth. But Christ by his physical death and burial and resurrection was our propitiation and the outward was his work on the cross his inward work is in spirit inwardly. We are said to be crucified with Christ buried with him and risen with him.

John 6: 53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Eternal life is in believers and that eternal life is Christ as scripture shows. A person can have eternal life “in” them and then not have this if they hate etc.

1 John 3: 15. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

Jesus is eternal life and he is in believers.


1 John 1: 2. (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us”

1 John 5: 20. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

Now you have a few things to chew on.

Valletta said:

In John 6:50-53 the Koine Greek word used for "eat" are forms of "phago." The Jews find the words of Jesus hard to believe, in John 6:54 forms of the word "trogein" or "trogo" begin to be used for "eat." "Trogein" means to chew, or gnaw, or masticate--when challenged Jesus, instead of telling them it is a figure (symbolic) does the opposite and makes it clear that He is speaking literally about eating His flesh.

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This is not spiritual discernment

It’s like this, We read,

John 10: 7. Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.”

The word “door” means

G 2374- thura- apparently a primary word (compare "door"); a portal or entrance (the opening or the closure,

So does that mean Jesus is literally a door?

No.