The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

LoveofTruth · Jan 2, 2019

swordsman1 said:
The light Jesus was referring to in this verse is not Himself. How can Christ be darkness? Read the context. Jesus is talking about light entering the eyes and filling the body. He is speaking metaphorically. He is saying if you focus on God's word and other spiritual truths your life will be enlightened. Focus on worldly things instead, your will be life filled with darkness.

Mat 6:22-23 “The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

You only seem to see things naturally. He is speaking of his light in them. Jesus said "I in you" and the light that is in them, this is the light of life that shines in the heart. One place Jesus said,

John 12:36 KJV
While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them."

Jesus was teaching them to walk in the light they had inwardly even if they didn't see him physically. This may be why he hid himself at that moment.

John also speaks of our fellowship in God and walking in the light and this is an inner one in our hearts where the father and the Son dwell ( 1 John 2:24-27 KJV). in 1 John we read of these things when he says;

"3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."(1 John 1"3-7 KJV)

The Lord is our light and their light also

Psalm 27:1 KJV
The Lord is my light and my salvation;"

Jesus also showed them that the Light is of the Father in them as well

Matthew 5:16 KJV

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

The light shines inwardly in the heart

2 Corinthians 4:4, 6 KJV
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them...
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."

LoveofTruth · Jan 2, 2019

swordsman1 said:
And Peter speaks the truth when he tells us exactly when Cornelius was saved. It wasn't before he heard the gospel.

Acts 11:14 "And he told us how he had seen the angel stand in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa and bring Simon who is called Peter; he will declare to you a message by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’"

I believe Cornelius was saved similar to the Old Testament saints, but his household also needed to be saved. The saved part there also refers to the full salvation through the understanding of Jesus Christ and then they received the Holy Ghost. They were made whole or complete in this salvation. Jesus Christ is the salvation of all who come to the Light and who repent and trust in God's righteousness. This salvation needs to be preached for this is how all men were saved in the past and future and through the name of Jesus Christ the Holy Ghost was given which believers need to have.

Salvation is only THROUGH Christ Jesus work in time. But God was able to give the seed, the treasure in earthen vessels Christ working in them to all to draw men to himself and to reprove them and give light through the work of Jesus Christ in time.

Peter and the apostles were already saved and belonged to the Father even before they met Jesus in the flesh.They were Jesus sheep who knew him and followed him already. As scripture shows, this was also before the cross.

"6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word....12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost,.."

We also read of men like David who was saved and born again and had the spirit in him before seeing Jesus Christ in the flesh and some other men and women mentioned in Hebrews 11, even before scripture was given.

LoveofTruth · Jan 2, 2019

swordsman1 said:
There is no corruption of texts. The Greek wording is the same in TR as it is in the earlier Greek manuscripts. It is purely something that the KJV has added, something that is not in the TR.

I think you can see that if a saint of God believes the King James Bible and simply trust in that book, they will be very different in many doctrines than those who believe the other versions.

In fact, not only is the mystery hid and downplayed in many new versions but the mystery of God manifest in the flesh is also hid and downplayed. The deity of Christ is hid and downplayed in many verses and the deletions are concerning. Other doctrines are affected as well.

But again this is a 45 hour talk or so and there are good post in this forum that discuss this matter.

But I have come to see that there are those who walk in the light of the Bible the KJV through the Spirit will have many different views from the modern version believers.

And in English we need to add words that make the meaning from Hebrew and Greek understandable to English. Or else the words do not flow and make sense in many places. This is a daunting task and unless God overshadowed it who is sufficient for such a work.

LoveofTruth · Jan 2, 2019

swordsman1 said:
You have greatly misunderstood Rom 5:18. It is not saying that ALL MEN have Christ. Let's look at the verse in context. Firstly the words "the free gift came upon" do not appear in the original Greek, not even in the textus receptus. They were erroneously added by the KJV translators.

You error here as well, the word flows in context to the "gift" mentioned all over the section,
consider your error here and look up the word "gift" in each place. It refers to the same things

"15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."(Romans 5:15-18 KJV)

The word "gift" here in Greek means "gratuity, endowment, free gift G5486 . The "gift" is referred to as the "free gift", the "gift of righteousness" etc. Paul says similar things in these verses so there can be no misunderstanding.

Words are needed to be added t make sense for English. These flow with the word "gift" that exist already in the Greek.

LoveofTruth · Jan 2, 2019

swordsman1 said:
The 'word of Christ' is scripture, not Christ in us.

Your correction,

"3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you...5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:3,5 KJV)

Colossians 1:27
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

LoveofTruth · Jan 2, 2019

swordsman1 said:
Where in John 1:9 does it say the True Light shines "in" all men? It doesn't. It says the true Light who shines on every man or "lighteth" (KJV). The word "in" is not there. It is eisegetically added by you and the Quakers.
!

John 1:5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
No, this verse you brought up actually corrects you and the previous verses and the ones after it in context. Lets read it from the actual Bible first

Your exposition of this passage shows how woefully deficient you are in the established techniques of proper biblical interpretation. Instead of rightly dividing the word of truth, you are employing common fallacies to come up with an interpretation that are completely alien to Paul's intended meaning.

LoveofTruth said:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Here we see that all men and ALL ungodliness in the past or present "hold the truth" This truth is Christ Jesus said he is the way the truth and the life. They hold the truth in unrighteounsess. This is similar to those who trample under food the seed and by their sins and iniquity they are crucifying Christ in their hearts. They have that truth to reject though. This truth shines in their hearts but they run from it. This truth is what may be known of God as the next verse shows.

You are totally wrong. Where the KJV says "hold the truth". The word "hold" (katechó) doesn't mean to carry something. It means to hold back or prevent the movement of something.

STRONGS NT 2722: κατέχω

κατέχω; imperfect κατεῖχον; 2 aorist subjunctive κατάσχω; imperfect passive κατειχομην;

1. to hold back, detain, retain;

a. τινα, from going away, followed by τοῦ μή with an infinitive, Luke 4:42(Buttmann, § 140, 16 β.; cf. Winer's Grammar, 604 (561)); τινα πρόςἐμαυτόν, Philemon 1:13. Passive (as often in Greek writings from Homerdown; cf. Passow, under the word, p. 1677a; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, II. 6)), of some troublesome condition or circumstance by which one is held as it were bound: νοσήματι, John 5:4 (G T Tr WH omit the passage); ἐντίνι, Romans 7:6.

b. to restrain, hinder (the course or progress of): τήν ἀλήθειαν ἐν ἀδικία, Romans 1:18; absolutely, τό κατέχον, that which hinders, namely, Antichrist from making his appearance (see ἀντίχριστος); the power of the Roman empire is meant; ὁ κατέχων, he that hinders, cheeks, namely, the advent of Antichrist, denotes the one in whom that power is lodged, the Roman emperor: 2 Thessalonians 2:6f (cf., besides DeWette and Lünemann at the passage (Lightfoot in B. D. under Thessalonians, Second Epistle to the), especially Schneckenburger in the Jahrbücher f. deutsche Theol. for 1859, p. 421f). κατέχω (namely, τήν ναῦν) εἰς τήν αἰγιαλόν, to check the ship's headway (better (cf. the preceding context) "to hold or head the ship, cf. Herodotus 7, 59.188 etc.; Bos, Ellips. (edited by Schaefer), p. 318; see, too, Odyssey 11, 455f (cf. Eustathius 1629, 18; Thomas Magister, Ritschl edition, p. 310, 7ff); but Passow (as below), et al., take the verb as intransitive in such a connection, viz. to make for; cf. Kypke, Observations, 2:144) in order to land, Acts 27:40 (Xenophon, Hell. 2, 1, 29 κατασχων ἐπί τήν Ἀβερνιδα; many other examples are given in Passow, under the word, II. 3; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, B. 2)).

c. to hold fast, keep secure, keep from possession of: with the accusative of the thing, τόν λόγον, Luke 8:15; followed by the orat. obliq., 1 Corinthians 15:2 (Buttmann, §§ 139,58; 150, 20; Winer's Grammar, 561 (522)); τάςπαραδόσεις, 1 Corinthians 11:2; τό καλόν, 1 Thessalonians 5:21; τήνπαρρησίαν (τήν ἀρχήν etc.) μέχρι τέλους βεβαίαν κατασχεῖν, Hebrews 3:6, 14; τήν ὁμολογίαν τῆς ἐλπίδος ἀκλινῆ, Hebrews 10:23. 2. equivalent to Latinobtinere, i. e.
a. to get possession of, take: Matthew 21:38 R G; Luke 14:9. b. to possess: 1 Corinthians 7:30; 2 Corinthians 6:10.

They were suppressing the truth, not as you would have it - holding the truth in their hearts. Which is why all other versions better translate it:

NASB For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness

ESV For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth

NIV The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

etc etc etc etc

LoveofTruth said:
This truth is Christ. Jesus said he is the way the truth and the life.

Now here we have another classic example of you twisting scripture. There are over 200 uses of the word 'truth' in scripture. But you latch onto one of them, where Jesus says he is 'the Way the Truth and the Life', and then arbitrary declare the word "truth" in this verse to be Christ. And then claim this is saying the heathen have a hold of Christ. Your hermeneutics are appalling.

LoveofTruth said:
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Here we see that that truth that they hold is that of God in them. That which may be known of God IN them (yes I use the KJV here and I believe the word "in" is the right word to use) some others seem to either miss the mystery or intentionally hide it here.

But what may be known of God? His power, salvation, life, goodness, righteousness . The righteousness of God seems to be the more pressing issue here. For the righteousness of God has been revealed. Witnessed in the OT. Light is sown to the righteousness and the righteousness of God is in the heart as we read in the OT and new. Paul uses a two fold aspect here as in Romans 10. First speaking of that which may be known of God in them and then he goes in the word in creation that is undersdtood by the inward revelation.

No it doesn't say the "truth that they hold is that of God in them". It says "that which may be known of God is manifest in them" (KJV). Paul tells us what is "known of God" in the next verse - his power and glory in creation.

LoveofTruth said:
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God does not simply show men that he exist and damn them. He shows them that which may be known of God, His righteousness, His eternal power and Godhead. He also first shows them their sins and that they fall short of Gods intent. They feel the heat of conscience as the conscience bears withness to the Light and truth of God they hold inwardly.

All men have this truth or true Light that lighteth them. This is the faithful witness inwardly and God showing them what may be known of Him.

All infants also have this Light and are in that sense with God until they hate the light and until they have sin revive and they die as Romans 7:9 touches on later.

Your commentary of this verse bears absolutely no resemblance to the actual words Paul wrote. Did you even read the verse?

LoveofTruth said:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

This shows that they knew God at one time. This may refer to infants and young children who come into the world in grace through Christ work and have the treasure in earhen vessels, the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. For they are alive once and die when sin revived as Romans 7:9 touches in.

Or it could also reflect on Adam and Eve who knew God and fell and all from them went into other sins. So Paul says, they knew God. To know God is eternal life and salvation. But then Paul shows their fall and says they "became vain in their imaginations:". This is where they believe not, before their hearts were darkned.

Totally wrong again. Verse 21 is a continuation of the previous verse. There is no period at the end of v20. It begins "because that, when they knew God...". This verse is telling us about the consequence of people knowing God by seeing Him in nature from the previous verse. It is nothing to do with knowing God in their innocent childhood as you unwarrantedly claim. Although they knew God from nature, they did not glorify or thank him, but rather became futile in their thinking.

LoveofTruth said:
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Here we see that they were once with God and knew God and had light and then they were given up by God. Their hearts darkened and became hard and full of lust.

There is nothing whatsoever said about the heathen previously being "with God" or "having light". They only "knew God" from nature. They never knew him personally. Yet again you are making totally unwarranted statements.

LoveofTruth said:
So this section shows they were saved and can be saved by that which may be known of God manifest IN them KJV.

No you are wrong. The heathen were never saved. They can only be saved by hearing and believing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
The Light in unbelievers.

First of all, the True Light lighteth every man that cometh into the world. This Light is God for the word Light in John 1 connects from the first verse speaking about the Word of God which is Him (God), which is the life and light of men. Where do we suppose the light shines if not in men's hearts. When I say in men's hearts I do not mean that the light or seed or word is planted in their hearts and that they have received him yet. But in their hearts in the sense of shining in or upon their hearts. This is similar like when God created the Earth and the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep, but the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....3 All things were made by him;...4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not....9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."(John 1:1,3,4,5,9 KJV)

Those who are not yet saved have this work of the law written in their hearts. The heart can still be hardened and in unbelief. But the light is there to reprove them. This is also referred to as the seed or word of God . The word is in the heart (Hebrews 4:12,13 KJV). It is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart. This light is the treasure in earthen vessels (2 Cor 4 KJV), the faithful witness inwardly that shines. It shines in their inward part and this is where God searches men's hearts.

We also read in Acts 17 where Paul told the men on the hill that God is not far from every one of us and they can feel after him and find him. Jesus said men can find God when they seek him with all their heart mind soul and strength. This kind of finding is salvation. But God is the one who first draws men by His light working in their hearts. If they come to that Light they are coming to God.

This light shines in the darkness. men's state is darkness without Christ light. But he shines there never the less. The light exposes their sin and works in their heart. Their heart can be darkened even if they had the light of life shine in them.

some verses to consider about the inward aspect of the Light to all.

"18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret:[here we see where the father is spoken of, he is in secret, this is the secret part of men's hearts he dwells and works]

and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly...21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.[Jesus tells us that the secret place is the heart]

22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, [referring to the focus on God alone the inward vision to see spiritually Jesus said that except a man be born again he cannot SEE the kingdom of God. He also said to his disciples at one time but your eyes see, to those who are without (the kingdom) they are blind. When Jesus said that those who see may not see he is talking about spiritual vision and inward seeing. As believers we look on the things that are not seen]

thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness,[this shows where the light is it is in thee. But if they do not receive him in their hearts, if they are not planted together with him and risen with him, then they are in darkness and that light will not give them the light of life. They will not have light sown (as a seed to their heart Psalm 97:11 KJV)] how great is that darkness!"(Matthew 6:18, 21-23 KJV)

It is not that the light is darkness for the light shines in the darness. But the darness is the state of men in unbelief. They have not been enlightened with the light of the living yet.

We read of this light in many places

"20 Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;...23 Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?"(Job 3:20,23 KJV)

Proverbs 13:9
The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out."

Job 18:5
Yea, the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine."

Proverbs 20:27
"The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly."

The seed is also sown in the hearts of ALL, though it doesnt take root in some and the devil takes it away. Notice where it is sown.

"11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved."(Luke 8:11,12 KJV).

This word is quick, alive and discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart. This is where the secrets of men is and where God desires truth in the inward part. There is no creature that is not seen by the word of God shining and convicting them all and giving life to those who believe in the light who become the children of light. We see the broad reach of this word sown in the hearts of all in many places here is one

"12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."(Hebrews 4:12,13 KJV)

The word "manifest" is important here and connects to the light again as we see

Ephesians 5:13
"But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light."

Jesus said the same thing here

"19 And this is the condemnation, [this is the reason all men since Adam are condened]

that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,[here we see the broad scope of the words here, when Jesus says EVERYONE THAT DOETH EVIL', This "everyone includes all men since the beginning who have done evil. So that means that they all had light to reject or receive. This is when they are condemned, when they hate the light. They can also come to the light "ALL MEN", since the beginning. This light is makes all things manifest, whether they are in God or in darkness and unbelief."] neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."[the worked "IN GOD" part is interesting, showong that God works in them and they in God.](John 3:19-21 KJV)

we see this light again spoken of in the two camps, those who are in ubelief who reject it and those who receive the light of Chris.

"3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."(2 Corinthians 4:36,7 KJV) Here we see that the light shone in the heart and is called a treasure "in" earthen vessels. This "treasure" is the "free gift" that came upon all men (Romans 5). This "treasure" is the treasure hid in the heart the seed or word of God, Christ close to them the word nigh, or near them all. One day when God shall judge the secrets of men they will see how close God was to every one of them and how he reached out to them all day long and how he reproved them of every sin and every action. How he did shine to call them unto himself but they would not and they will see how the devil blinded their minds and hearts and how they hardened their hearts and their foolish hearts became darkened.

continued...

If I could be bothered, I could no doubt similarly pick apart this exposition of yours as well, and highlight the errors you make at every step. But I think people can already see how you twist God's word to present unbiblical doctrines. Although you quote lots of verses, giving the impression that you are proving things from scripture, what you are in fact doing is fallaciously twisting God's word to make it say something that was never it's intended meaning. Hence you come up with bizarre expositions of passages which no other commentators share. You then teach others your errant doctrines such as sitting in silence and listening for inner feelings which you say is God speaking to you giving extra-biblical revelations. Your teachings are false and dangerous.

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
and we know that if Jesus Christ is in us he speaks in believers

2 Corinthians 13:3
Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you."

No, you are wrong. Christ spoke in the apostle Paul because he was an authorized spokesman of Christ. We are not apostles. Being "mighty in you" does not mean "speak in you".

LoveofTruth said:
and so in John 15:4 we read of Jesus being in us and speaking his word and this is also inward as well for without him we can do nothing. That would include utterance, ministry, preaching, revelation etc..

John 15:4 says nothing about God speaking inward revelations. It just says "Abide in me, and I in you."

LoveofTruth · Jan 2, 2019

swordsman1 said:
If I could be bothered, I could no doubt similarly pick apart this exposition of yours as well, and highlight the errors you make at every step. But I think people can already see how you twist God's word to present unbiblical doctrines. Although you quote lots of verses, giving the impression that you are proving things from scripture, what you are in fact doing is fallaciously twisting God's word to make it say something that was never it's intended meaning. Hence you come up with bizarre expositions of passages which no other commentators share. You then teach others your errant doctrines such as sitting in silence and listening for inner feelings which you say is God speaking to you giving extra-biblical revelations. Your teachings are false and dangerous.

That’s a false response. You cannot disprove anything I said in my post here. As you have not been able to do so the entire post. You don’t realize you are arguing for not hearing God's Voice immediately and not being led by the Spirit. Instead you speak in natural things and human wisdom with intellectual superiority as if spiritual revelations are somehow dangerous. This is the danger to claim to know anything without the Spirit of God directly working in you, and speaking.

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
My comments in Romans 10 connected to Deut 30 and Psalms 19 are clear to the unbiased reader go back and read them again and consider them seeking the Spirit of God to show you all things. Only in the anointing can we understand all things. The anointing teaches us all things and we need not that any "man" teach us.

Don't you think it is odd that "the anointing" teaches you something about this passage, but doesn't teach that meaning to anyone else?

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
You only seem to see things naturally. He is speaking of his light in them. Jesus said "I in you" and the light that is in them, this is the light of life that shines in the heart. One place Jesus said,

John 12:36 KJV
While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them."

Jesus was teaching them to walk in the light they had inwardly even if they didn't see him physically. This may be why he hid himself at that moment.

John also speaks of our fellowship in God and walking in the light and this is an inner one in our hearts where the father and the Son dwell ( 1 John 2:24-27 KJV). in 1 John we read of these things when he says;

"3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."(1 John 1"3-7 KJV)

The Lord is our light and their light also

Psalm 27:1 KJV
The Lord is my light and my salvation;"

Jesus also showed them that the Light is of the Father in them as well

Matthew 5:16 KJV

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

The light shines inwardly in the heart

2 Corinthians 4:4, 6 KJV
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them...
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."

Wrong. Read Matthew 6 again. There is no mention of Christ being the light in v22-23. The light referred to here is light that enters the eye and fills the body.

Mat 6:22-23 “The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

It says here the light can be darkness. So it cannot possibly be Jesus.

Just because Jesus is referred to as light elsewhere in scripture, doesn't mean he is the light mentioned in this verse. The word 'light' appears over 300 times in scripture, is each one of them referring to Jesus? When God said "Let there be light", was he creating Jesus? This technique is fallacious.

Nowhere does it say we have light shining inside us. And none of the verses you quoted say that.

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
I believe Cornelius was saved similar to the Old Testament saints, but his household also needed to be saved. The saved part there also refers to the full salvation through the understanding of Jesus Christ and then they received the Holy Ghost. They were made whole or complete in this salvation. Jesus Christ is the salvation of all who come to the Light and who repent and trust in God's righteousness. This salvation needs to be preached for this is how all men were saved in the past and future and through the name of Jesus Christ the Holy Ghost was given which believers need to have.

Salvation is only THROUGH Christ Jesus work in time. But God was able to give the seed, the treasure in earthen vessels Christ working in them to all to draw men to himself and to reprove them and give light through the work of Jesus Christ in time.

Peter and the apostles were already saved and belonged to the Father even before they met Jesus in the flesh.They were Jesus sheep who knew him and followed him already. As scripture shows, this was also before the cross.

"6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word....12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost,.."

We also read of men like David who was saved and born again and had the spirit in him before seeing Jesus Christ in the flesh and some other men and women mentioned in Hebrews 11, even before scripture was given.

Scripture proves you wrong. It plainly says Cornelius would only be saved when Peter spoke his message. There is no wriggling out of that one I'm afraid. Cornelius was not saved prior to hearing Peter.

Acts 11:14 "And he told us how he had seen the angel stand in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa and bring Simon who is called Peter; he will declare to you a message by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’"

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
I think you can see that if a saint of God believes the King James Bible and simply trust in that book, they will be very different in many doctrines than those who believe the other versions.

In fact, not only is the mystery hid and downplayed in many new versions but the mystery of God manifest in the flesh is also hid and downplayed. The deity of Christ is hid and downplayed in many verses and the deletions are concerning. Other doctrines are affected as well.

But again this is a 45 hour talk or so and there are good post in this forum that discuss this matter.

But I have come to see that there are those who walk in the light of the Bible the KJV through the Spirit will have many different views from the modern version believers.

And in English we need to add words that make the meaning from Hebrew and Greek understandable to English. Or else the words do not flow and make sense in many places. This is a daunting task and unless God overshadowed it who is sufficient for such a work.

Whatever you believe about other versions doesn't alter the fact the KJV translators added a significant number of words to Rom 5:18 that do not appear in the Textus Receptus. And they were not just to make the sentence flow.

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
You error here as well, the word flows in context to the "gift" mentioned all over the section,
consider your error here and look up the word "gift" in each place. It refers to the same things

"15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."(Romans 5:15-18 KJV)

The word "gift" here in Greek means "gratuity, endowment, free gift G5486 . The "gift" is referred to as the "free gift", the "gift of righteousness" etc. Paul says similar things in these verses so there can be no misunderstanding.

Words are needed to be added t make sense for English. These flow with the word "gift" that exist already in the Greek.

Embedding their own commentary in scripture, even to clarify the meaning of a verse to its readers, means the KJV is not an accurate translation. If the words to not appear in the original Greek they should not appear in the English. Any commentary should be in sidenotes or footnotes.

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
Your correction,

"3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you...5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:3,5 KJV)

Colossians 1:27
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

That is not proof that the 'word of Christ' from the verse "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly" is Christ dwelling in us, from which you also somehow twisted to mean waiting in silence until we feel God speaking in us.

swordsman1 · Jan 2, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
John 1:5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”

"The light shines in the darkness" does not mean it shines in men's hearts.

The darkness is the ignorance in which people walk. As this parallel Messianic verse shows. The light shines ON them, not IN them

Isaiah 9:2 "The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shone."

LoveofTruth · Jan 2, 2019

swordsman1 said:
"The light shines in the darkness" does not mean it shines in men's hearts.

The darkness is the ignorance in which people walk. As this parallel Messianic verse shows. The light shines ON them, not IN them

Isaiah 9:2 "The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shone."

The way you understand scripture and your applications is appalling.

You miss the clearest truths and seem to have a carnal apprehension and natural wisdom of men that misses the Spiritual teaching. This is obvious in many if not most of your post. I begin to think you simply CANNOT see it no matter how many verses you are shown. But then you use translations that are so mixed up and confuse you more

When I speak of the truth in them, or Christ in them, or the Light in them, or the seed in them, or the word in them. It depends on the two kinds of people I am speaking of . The one is unbelievers who have that light in them in the sense of a reprover of their sin, as the word is like a fire and a hammer that breaketh the rocks in pieces. This seed sown in their heart is not taking root in their heart unless they receive it and believe. This is what we see in the parable when the seed, the word of God is sown in the unbelieving hearts but they do not receive it and it does not take root and begin to grow. The devil taketh away the word sown in their heart. The god of this world blinds the minds of those that believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel should shine unto them in thier hearts..
But the other kind of people are the believers who have the light in them, they have the light shine in their hearts and they have the light of life. They walk in the light and God is light and He shines in them with His light. God is light and God is dwelling in all believers. God works in them to will and to do and to make them perfect unto every good work working in them that which is well pleasing through Jesus Christ.

"4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them...6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."(2 Cor 13:4,6 KJV)

"10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him."

I simply believe Jesus when he speaks of light IN them. The word "in" is telling.

If you say that "in" you does not mean in men literally than when Jesus says "I in you" do you suppose that means he is not really in believers? If so read 2 Cor 13:5 KJV etc etc etc.

Therefore we must walk in the light. as Jesus said

"46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness."

Matthew 6:23
"But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"

Matthew 6:22
"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light."

How do you think the body is FULL of light? Is light literally from the sun filling our body because we our eye be single? Or is this a spiritual meaning? Yes a spiritual one.

Proverbs 20:27
"The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly."

Job 38:36
Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?"

Psalm 51:6
"Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

LoveofTruth · Jan 3, 2019

swordsman1 said:
That is not proof that the 'word of Christ' from the verse "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly" is Christ dwelling in us, from which you also somehow twisted to mean waiting in silence until we feel God speaking in us.

The word of Christ is alive (Hebrews 4:12) and works in those who believe (1 Thess 2;13 KJV). It is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart. It is the engrafted word that is able to save the souL (James 1)l. This word is abiding in us. This is where Jesus Christ is in us and speaks His word in the heart (John 15:7 KJV). he that is of God heareth God's words. It is not enough for a man to read scripture and say he hears God's word. The pharisees had scripture and they thought they had eternal life in them. But Jesus said they did not hear His word or have His word abiding in them.

All who are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God. God works in us to will and to do and to make us perfect unto EVERY good work, working in us that which is well pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ (Hebrews 13;20,21 KJV).

If any believer has any utterance this is a good work and God works in us to make us perfect unto EVERY good work. So it is as God leads, not as men go forth in their carnal and fleshly and natural wisdom and speaking.

The waiting on the Lord part, the silence before him and seeking His will is very scriptural as I have showed.

For example, we see in scripture that something may be revealed to another who SITTETH by. Can a man make something be revealed to himself? Can a man make himself prophesy? Can a man cause himself to have a word of knowledge or any gift of his own power? No, the Lord has to direct our paths. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths. The steps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord.

They are to sit there seeking the Lord and to be led of the Spirit. The Spirit gives utterance and gifts severally as He wills. To one He give one thing and to another he gives another. This is not as men do so in their own effort and fleshly programs and carnal mind.

Some verses for your correction,

"7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."(1 Cor 12:7-11 KJV)

What man can claim to give such things to himself or any other in a gathering? We also read;

"15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit,.."(1 Cor 14:15,16 KJV)

"30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

We see here that they were "sitting by" not talking, and they were to "hold their peace" , or be silent if nothing is revealed. This silent waiting on the Lord is very scriptural and true in the Spirit. We do not rush ahead in our own flesh and natural understanding.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."(1 Cor 14:30-33 KJV)

God is the author of such things not man. God works in all to will and to do and to make us perfect unto every good work, working in us that which is well pleasing through Jesus Christ. Some are so unfamiliar with this Spiritual life and leading and effectual work of Jesus Christ as the head of the church working in every part that is sounds "bizzar" to them. They are not even taught to seek the Lord for such things and to edify eachother. Instead they are taught to listen to the "experts" who simply speak in excellency of speech and man's wisdom things they have collected from books and human invention and take some things from one commentary and others from from another commentary with crafty cunningness they sculpt a "three piont Sermon" so called, or something similar, following all the rules of proper eloquence and instruction that they learned in school. And so create a thing called a "sermon" , that last for about 1/2 hr to 45 minutes. And in this they think to speak forth the word of God and be preachers and teachers and expound the word. But this is their confusion. For God is not the authour of such confusion. God authors the true order in the meetings as He gives gifts and leading. This is all as the Spirit gives utterance and as the Spirit wills.

Psalm 37:23

"The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way."

Proverbs 16:1
"The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord.

LoveofTruth · Jan 3, 2019

swordsman1 said:
Embedding their own commentary in scripture, even to clarify the meaning of a verse to its readers, means the KJV is not an accurate translation. If the words to not appear in the original Greek they should not appear in the English. Any commentary should be in sidenotes or footnotes.

the free gift is the gift of righteousness in their heart purchased by Jesus Christ through his work on the cross in time. This free gift came upon all men. The context says the same thing in different ways.

The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

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