The Roman Style Clerical Collar

[Oblio]

I've seen it said nearby that one of the indicators of the Great Apostacy is the use of Roman style clerical collars. My question is twofold:

• Where/when and why did it originate (Both in the East and West) and what is its symbolism ?
• How does it negatively affect the Orthodox faith for our clergy to wear it ?

 

[Iacobus]

I've seen it said nearby that one of the indicators of the Great Apostacy is the use of Roman style clerical collars. My question is twofold:

• Where/when and why did it originate (Both in the East and West) and what is its symbolism ?
• How does it negatively affect the Orthodox faith for our clergy to wear it ?

I honestly don't know when or where it originated, except that it was in the West. It symbolizes the yoke of Christ.

I don't think it is heretical. My objection is that I think it is desirable that our clergy maintain some level of distinctiveness. The average person on the street can't tell you what the difference between RCs and EOs is anyway. To see the collar is to raise the impression that the wearer is a RC priest.

In our diocese, we have a priest monk who always wears his cassock. He is a widower who only recently became a monk, although he has been a priest for twenty something years. He says that he is constantly struck by how often the cassock draws questions and inquiries when he is out and about, such as at the grocery store.

James

 

[Philip]

I don't think it is heretical. My objection is that I think it is desirable that our clergy maintain some level of distinctiveness. The average person on the street can't tell you what the difference between RCs and EOs is anyway. To see the collar is to raise the impression that the wearer is a RC priest.

Don't many Protestant ministers wear a collar as well?

 

[Iacobus]

Don't many Protestant ministers wear a collar as well?

Some do, at least. I suppose my attaching it to RC priests is probably more a product of my own experience than anything else. But you are right. When I was in the Methodist church, a few pastors wore the collar.

James

 

[ufonium2]

• How does it negatively affect the Orthodox faith for our clergy to wear it ?

I don't know that it negatively affects our faith so much as it negatively and inaccurately affects others' view of our faith, and of Catholicism for that matter.


We spend all this time trying to make the point that we're not just Catholics without a Pope, and then our priests go and dress like them. There's nothing wrong with Roman collars, except that it's not our heritage. I don't especially want my priest to wear a yarmulke or kimono either, so it's nothing specifically against Rome.


Plus, as someone mentioned in the other thread, it could confuse people about Catholicism to see someone who looks just like a Catholic priest holding hands with a woman (and/or kids) walking down the street.

 

[Oblio]

The average person on the street can't tell you what the difference between RCs and EOs is anyway. To see the collar is to raise the impression that the wearer is a RC priest.

This is a good point. A similar argument could be made against a cassock as the uninitiated can mistake a EO priest for an Imam should they miss the pectoral Cross. Just pondering ....

 

[MariaRegina]

This is a good point. A similar argument could be made against a cassock as the uninitiated can mistake a EO priest for an Imam should they miss the pectoral Cross. Just pondering ....

I talked with an Orthodox Christian Nun who was verbally attacked on the street because they thought that she was muslim. The Bishop gave her permission to wear a cross so that people would know that she was a Christian.

 

[Reader Nilus]

Goodness I don't what they wear matters in the least, is a priest less of a priest because you see him in street clothes? I had an Archpriest apologize to me, because he met me in street clothes!
Jeff the Finn

 

[vanshan]

I always heard that the Roman collar 1. forms a circle around the neck of the priest representing eternity and 2. it's a symbol of the yoke of Christ the priest accepts in ordination.

This symbolizism in itself doesn't sound bad, but the connotation of being heterodox, as traditionally only heterodox priests wore such a symbol, should be a problem for us. Being lumped together with the Roman Church is probably a very large hurdle for the Orthodox mission in the U.S. There are millions of protestants here that get the willies just at the sight of a Roman Collar, at least here in the so-called "Bible Belt."

Basil (two cents = worth 0, probably)

 

[MariaRegina]

I've seen it said nearby that one of the indicators of the Great Apostacy is the use of Roman style clerical collars.

Chris,
Who said such a thing? Was that from one of those anti-Catholic tracts, those unmentionable ones that start with a C ...?

 

[MariaRegina]

Lately, the only ones I have met wearing a roman collar in public are

(1) Orthodox Priests (because they always wear their pectoral Crosses with the black - it wouldn't look good wearing civilian clothes with that Cross )
(2) Christian ministers (such as Episcopal and Lutheran ministers)
(3) Female ministers who want the world to know that they are priests.

Most Catholic Priests whom I have met, take their collars off in public and wear "civies".

 

[Suzannah]

I have sometimes worked on cruise ships where RC priests are given free passage so that they can minister to the passengers onboard. Of these priests, all of them wore their clerical collar and black shirts/slacks (I don't know what that outfit is properly called, sorry) and they have worn them 'round the clock...in talking with many of them, I have asked why they do not wear street clothes and I am told that they feel that in this case, in such a worldly environment as a cruise ship, they do not wish to be taken for a passenger, but wish to be mindful of their own calling at all times, and to remain undistracted from their purpose onboard, which is to minister.

I have never heard, even as a Protestant, that this priest garb is a sign of anything other than devotion....My own priest does not wear one, as far as I know....when he's about, he wears his black cassock and a cross. But if he did wear a Roman style collar, he would be no less an Orthodox priest in my opinion...I'm very curious as to how this discussion originated???

 

[MariaRegina]

I have sometimes worked on cruise ships where RC priests are given free passage so that they can minister to the passengers onboard. Of these priests, all of them wore their clerical collar and black shirts/slacks (I don't know what that outfit is properly called, sorry) and they have worn them 'round the clock...in talking with many of them, I have asked why they do not wear street clothes and I am told that they feel that in this case, in such a worldly environment as a cruise ship, they do not wish to be taken for a passenger, but wish to be mindful of their own calling at all times, and to remain undistracted from their purpose onboard, which is to minister.

Suzannah, when priests or ministers (of any denomination or Church) are serving as retreat masters, cruise personnel or tour guides (part of a cruise), they wear their clerical garb as part of their assignment. People know that the person in black guides the group. They stand out. Many priests cannot afford the expense of a Holy Land tour or a trip to European shrines - but they get an all expense paid trip and a stipend if they serve as a tour guide. This is a wonderful opportunity for them to get away and minister to others at the same time. A win-win situation.

Ask your priest, maybe he'll volunteer to serve as a tour guide on one of your ships should you go to sea again. I don't know if all priests (especially Orthodox Priests) are aware of this golden opportunity. This is one of the blesisngs of being a member of the cloth.

 

[InnerPhyre]

The collar is also spiritual armor. Back in medieval times, warriors wore metal collars under their helmets to protect their necks. This is also part of the meaning of the collar....as well as the yolk of Christ.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

In my humble opinion, the priest's wearing of a cassock at all times is a way of preventing vanity. This is similiar to why most EO priests keep beards. I'm not fond of Roman collars. To me, it seems like an attempt to look westernized, an attempt to blend in with our culture. This is what the OCA says about vestments:

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"While some people mistakenly believe that the vestments of the Orthodox Church are designed to "adorn" the clergy in a "special" way, this is not the case. Vestments serve to hide, in a sense, the individual characteristics of the priest, as these could indeed become a distraction in focusing on Christ. As St. John Chrysostom writes, "Christ does not appear until the priest disappears.""[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]
Again, as St. John Chrysostom indicated, it is about humility and ridding oneself of vanity.

 

[Carrye]

wore their clerical collar and black shirts/slacks (I don't know what that outfit is properly called, sorry)

They're usually just referred to as "clerics," Suzannah.

 

[Basileus]

I asked my priest (Fr. Daniel Geeza) about the collar today after vespers since he usually wears it. He says he just likes it. I suppose that is a simple enough answer. However, he says that when he is visiting parishoners especially in a RC hospital he wears the Cassock and cross to make sure he distinguishes the Orthodox from the RC. I guess that means the RC knows the difference though.

Father Daniel also says the collar really doesn't mean RC priesthood anymore since he even knows some Baptist ministers that wear the collar.

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

I think it's a cultural thing- when people see the collar, they know it's a Christian minister of some sort. I suppose if it were the custom for Christian ministers to wear golden turtlenecks, I wouldn't have a problem if an Orthodox Priest wore one.

Moses

 

[Carrye]

Father Daniel also says the collar really doesn't mean RC priesthood anymore since he even knows some Baptist ministers that wear the collar.

And you know, that's a little sad. I don't have any problems with Orthodox priests wearing the collar, but having Baptist and other Protestant ministers wearing them doesn't seem right. I'm sure that's just my bias coming out, but there's such a different belief about who a Catholic or Orthodox priest is, as compared to another Protestant minister. And, I guess I'm surprised Protestants want anything to do with the collar.

 

[Michael G]

Not to be uncivilized or irreverent or anything like that, but in seminary we thought it was alot of fun to sword fight with our clerical collars.