The Role of Ellen White

[Pythons]

there is the ten commandment law written by Gods hand one two tablets of stone.. and there is the law written by moses...

There is only ONE law and within it are moral and ceremonial laws.

“When the Lord finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, He gave him the two tablets of the Testimony, the tablets of stone written by the finger of God”. Exodus 31,18

“And the Lord delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the Lord spake with you in the mount of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly”. Deuteronomy 9,10

“But if the MINISTRY OF DEATH, written and engraven in stones… 2 Corinthians 3,7

It’s what’s written in stone that is the “ministry of death” that stood (past tense) against us Dania. What you’ve been instructed to believe is the law of love is Biblically called the law of death. This is why Christ killed it and scripture speaks so boldly of Jesus slaughtering the 10 commandments and making a spectacle of them like young David did with Goliath’s head after he cut it off. The body and head of the 10 commandments then putrefied away into nothing.

“He forgave us all our sins, having CANCELLED the written code, with it’s regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; He took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities , he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross”. Colossians 2, 13

Notice “Written Code” WITH it’s regulations? The Code is the 10 Commandments is the “ministry of death”, your enemy. The regulations went with the Code, it’s all ONE law.

i a withdrawing from this discussion.. i will find myself sinning by blowing up in rage...

Now don’t go and do that.

it shocks me tho.. just because u all hate the Holy day.. u tell the ppl its okay to murdar and lie and dishonor their parents..

No Dania, you have been misguided. I don’t hate the sabbath at all. Christ has beheaded the Sabbath and by observing it you do indeed worship the dead.

“For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with IT”S COMMANDMANTS (10 commandments) and REGULATIONS (book of the law). His purpose was to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which He put to death their hostility”. Ephesians 2, 14

Be very certain, Jesus slaughtered the Sabbath exactly as Sacred Scripture says. Honoring your Mom and Dad, stealing and all of the other moral commandments are as much in force as they always have been. These laws are eternal and can’t change, EVER. This is why Sacred Scripture speaks of the 10 commandments rotting like meat left out in the sun, they are only a portion of the beast that Jesus Christ killed on our behalf.

the lord said he came not to abolish the law.. but to magnify it... utter rubbish being spoken when ppl claim the law is not real or is slavery or legalistic.. LEGALISM AND OBEDIENCE IS DIFFERENT.

“Till all be fulfiled” is the rest of the verse. Jesus completed His work or was just a plain old man so when He said prior to His death “It is finished” he meant, poor little jesus, all finished and washed up. Be very serious when you go back and read the verse. You will see you have been taught to gloss over the “till all be fulfilled part”. This part you didn’t quote in order to bolster the law is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

i would encourage you ppl to venture into hebrew writings of th ebible.. and pray before u read.. i am sorry for yo.. what enrages me is u try to tel us we are in slavery of this law.. when the law is love.. and teaches us to love in the way the lord would be pleased..

I have the Hebrew Tanach. It is as clear, what Ellen White calls the law of love God speaking through His Holy Apostles calls the Law of Death. This is why dear friend (and I truly hold you as such) that Jesus Christ, God Almighty in the unison of the Holy Spirit ran a spear through the 10 commandments and followed up with a sword strike decapatating the sabbath then left the carcass to decompose on the field of battle.

i strive to please the lord .. none of u.. so Go on with you lawlessness.. i can only warn u all.. and soon one day we wll be killed for this.. just how the prophets were murdered for warner the children of israel about the law of the lord...

Truth isn’t lawlessness Dania. Far from it. You must reconcile you new belief system with the Sacred Scriptures. As a Christian, you must interpret the Old Covenant through reading of the New Covenant. Start with the Gospels and if there is a question have the Catholic Epistles interpret the question.

"THE LAW OF THE LORD IS PERFECT... REVIVING THE SOUL"

I STAND BY MY LORD. AND HIS REQUESTS

“The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw newar God”. Hebrews 7,18

What have they done to you child.


In Christian love, a fellow sinner

Pythons

 

[Dania]

another question i ask is in the ellen g white thread.. ERROR...
SCRAP THAT

READ POST # 20! THATS WHAT I MEANT

 

[Pythons]

What question is that? I'm no expert on Ellen White by any means. I do know she rejected the Trinity and at this time that's about it... Help is on the way however.

 

[Dania]

See Question At Post #20 :d

 

[Pythons]

so when jesus says : if u love me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.. WHAT DOES HE REFER TO?

Referring to Matthew,

“Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And I am with you always, to the very end of the age”. Matthew 28, 18


This Scripture contrasts Matthew 23, 1-3 where Jesus tells the crowds and His disciples to do whatsoever the Scribes and Pharisees tell them to do. Jesus’ commandments are the Moral law plus His Sacraments.

AND WHEN PAUL SAYS TO US:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

SO WHY ARE U MAKING VOID THE LAW?

Paul is insuring the people understand the “Moral law” of God remains.

ESTABLISH : the Greek is "histemi" - to stand firm, to make stand, to put, to establish

MAKE VOID : the Greek is "katargeo" - to abolish, to nullify, make ineffective, cease, pass away

GOD FORBID : the Greek is "me" - absolutely not!

tell me now. why did paul say uphold the law instead of making it ineffective?? are u saying he is contradicting himself here?

No, Paul is not contradicting himself at all. I’m in agreement with this 100%. The Natural Law or Moral law of God is Eternal. God is perfect and by logic His Moral Law is also perfect.


Is this question you wanted me to answer?

 

[Dania]

What Is This Moral Law That U Refer To?
DoES That Mean Everything Except The 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Commandment??

DOES THIS MEAN THAT WE CAN

1: WORSHIP IDOLS

2: HAVE OTHER GODS BEFORE YAHWEH

3: TAKE HIS NAME IN VAIN

4: FORGET THE HOLY DAY

5: DISOBEY OUR PARENTS

6: TELL LIES

7: COMMIT ADULTERY

8: COVET ONE ANOTHER

9: MURDER ONE ANOTHER

10: STEAL FROM ONE ANOTHER

WHICH ONE OF THESE IS IT OKAY TO DO? WRITE YES BESIDE THE ONES WE HAVE AN "OKAY" TO DO

 

[Pythons]

What Is This Moral Law That U Refer To?

Moral law is imprinted on every human born on the planet. It is that little voice inside a savages head that tells him not to steal his fellow tribesman's pig or spear or whatever isn't his. That is moral law.

DoES That Mean Everything Except The 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Commandment??

A moral law is a law that is in force at all times, not just at certain times.

DOES THIS MEAN THAT WE CAN

1: WORSHIP IDOLS

2: HAVE OTHER GODS BEFORE YAHWEH

3: TAKE HIS NAME IN VAIN

4: FORGET THE HOLY DAY

5: DISOBEY OUR PARENTS

6: TELL LIES

7: COMMIT ADULTERY

8: COVET ONE ANOTHER

9: MURDER ONE ANOTHER

10: STEAL FROM ONE ANOTHER

WHICH ONE OF THESE IS IT OKAY TO DO? WRITE YES BESIDE THE ONES WE HAVE AN "OKAY" TO DO

[/quote]

That is the difficult way to do it Dania, I'm not saying you couldn't work your way through the whole 613 and classify which ones are moral or ceremonial. It just does not make sense to do it that way. You are still viewing the 10 commandments as a unit unto themselves when they are clearly not.

Man is not commanded by nature to hold sabbath over any other day of the week = it's not moral.

 

[Dania]

well... i want to reserve the sabbath like jesus and the apostles did.. and i want to keep the 10 commandments.. until i see some big proof as to say DONOT EVEN OBEY THESE RULES!!!! yeah when i see that i will definately stop.. until then i will do no work on the sabbath and keep it HOLY as adam did from the beginning of this world i guess i have a "weak" conscience.. so let it be.

 

[mva1985]

Moral law is imprinted on every human born on the planet. It is that little voice inside a savages head that tells him not to steal his fellow tribesman's pig or spear or whatever isn't his. That is moral law.



A moral law is a law that is in force at all times, not just at certain times.


That is the difficult way to do it Dania, I'm not saying you couldn't work your way through the whole 613 and classify which ones are moral or ceremonial. It just does not make sense to do it that way. You are still viewing the 10 commandments as a unit unto themselves when they are clearly not.

Man is not commanded by nature to hold sabbath over any other day of the week = it's not moral.

The Ten Commandments are a moral law. The first tablet covering man's relationship to God, and the second tablet covering man's relationship to each other.

 

[mva1985]

Exactly, Victor. There are things that are given latitude to "individual liberty of conscience" in the Messianic movement that the SDA church would FORCE one belief on. Some of the beliefs that are tolerated by my Messianic congregation(immortality of the soul, Old Earth Creationism, etc.) would likely get one disfellowshipped from some of the more conservative SDA churches at least.

In fact many of the people at my Messianic congregation believe in the immortality of the soul along with an eternal hell for the wicked which is a belief the SDA church would NOT allow. I pretty much believed in the immortality of the soul and and eternal hell even all the years I was SDA but kept my mouth shut about it because at the time I believed everything else.

I heard Ellen White quoted more than the Bible at times much of the time I was an Adventist. She PERMEATES EVERY Adventist doctrine and belief even if people don't want to admit it.

G-d Bless.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

That's one of the biggest stretches that I have read today!!!

So you believe in the immortality of the soul - you believe contrary to what the Bible teaches.

 

[mva1985]

Moral law is imprinted on every human born on the planet. It is that little voice inside a savages head that tells him not to steal his fellow tribesman's pig or spear or whatever isn't his. That is moral law.

The moral law is imprinted on every human?!?!?

Genesis 6:5
The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

Genesis 8:21
The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

and there are so many more texts, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Pythons]

That's one of the biggest stretches that I have read today!!!

So you believe in the immortality of the soul - you believe contrary to what the Bible teaches.

I'm waiting for some things to show up in the mail MVA for insertion into the thread TrustAndObey started about this. Soul sleep is against scripture and once I have the material in hand I'm going to show the readers how and why Adventists needed to teach it.

As for the moral law I covered this with RND in total. It's imprinted for sure. Did you read any of the thread where this is discussed in detail?

 

[VictorC]

Dania,
I can't tell who you're directing these questions to, since your post appears at the bottom of the thread and anchored as a reply to the OP.
I might suggest that when you reply to someone, please use the 'quote' button that appears at the bottom right area of your screen.

Then I can tell if you're asking me a question, or someone else.

so when jesus says : if u love me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.. WHAT DOES HE REFER TO?

AND WHEN PAUL SAYS TO US:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

SO WHY ARE U MAKING VOID THE LAW?

that was romans 3..

ESTABLISH : the Greek is "histemi" - to stand firm, to make stand, to put, to establish

MAKE VOID : the Greek is "katargeo" - to abolish, to nullify, make ineffective, cease, pass away

GOD FORBID : the Greek is "me" - absolutely not!

tell me now. why did paul say uphold the law instead of making it ineffective?? are u saying he is contradicting himself here?

Your exposition of the meaning of establishing the law is sound, there isn't anything wrong with it.
But what you're doing is using a single verse without considering its context - this epistle is a letter, and the chapters and verses were added as notations later for reference purposes.

The reason that the law is established is that the law contains the promise made to Abraham which came to be 430 years before the Mosaic covenant of the ten commandments came into existence. It is by the promise to Abraham that our assurance of salvation is made - not the law. You can read Galatians 3 in its entirety for greater insight into what I mention here.

Romans 3:31 belongs in the context of the verses that follow it:

Romans 4:1-15
1: What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2: For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3: For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6: Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7: Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8: Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9: Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10: How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11: And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13: For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14: For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

The verse you quoted is surrounded by the condemnation that is part of the law's decrees. Shortly before Romans 3:31 comes this verse, that shows the status of those who trust in the law:

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

And because of the death decree of the law, Paul writes these verses later on in this same epistle:
Romans 7:6-7
6: But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7: What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Ask yourself this: Where in the law are the words "thou shalt not covet"?
That's right.
The ten commandments.
That is the very law we are now delivered from.

Romans 7:10
And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Our salvation is dependent on the promise to Abraham.
Not the schoolmaster law of Moses.
Read Galatians 3 and tell me what you think of that chapter, would you?

Thanks!
Victor

 

[VictorC]

See Question At Post #20 :d

I wrote a long reply to that last night - mine is post #21 anchored to your question.
Victor

EDIT - I just noticed that the number affixed to the posts is a variable value. Referring to post numbers now aren't pointing to your intended post when you made the reference.

You're better off providing a link to your post.
Also, quote the one you're answering, and that identifies who your questions are directed to.

 

[VictorC]

well... i want to reserve the sabbath like jesus and the apostles did.. and i want to keep the 10 commandments.. until i see some big proof as to say DONOT EVEN OBEY THESE RULES!!!! yeah when i see that i will definately stop.. until then i will do no work on the sabbath and keep it HOLY as adam did from the beginning of this world i guess i have a "weak" conscience.. so let it be.

Dania,
You can rest any day you like.
So can anyone else.
It is not grounds to judge another adopted son or daughter of God, according to Colossians 2:16-17:

16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The reason these shadows don't matter is because they were merely a schoolmaster to lead us the Christ:

Galatians 3:21-25
21: Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22: But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23: But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25: But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

An over simplified analogy is this:
The law was a road map.
Once the road map has gotten you to its intended destination, it is of no further use.

If you're in Christ, you don't need a map anymore.

Victor

 

[VictorC]

What Is This Moral Law That U Refer To?
DoES That Mean Everything Except The 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Commandment??

DOES THIS MEAN THAT WE CAN

1: WORSHIP IDOLS
2: HAVE OTHER GODS BEFORE YAHWEH
3: TAKE HIS NAME IN VAIN
4: FORGET THE HOLY DAY
5: DISOBEY OUR PARENTS
6: TELL LIES
7: COMMIT ADULTERY
8: COVET ONE ANOTHER
9: MURDER ONE ANOTHER
10: STEAL FROM ONE ANOTHER

WHICH ONE OF THESE IS IT OKAY TO DO? WRITE YES BESIDE THE ONES WE HAVE AN "OKAY" TO DO

Are you now going to claim that we who aren't Adventists desire to do evil, so that good may come?
I urge you to read Romans 3:8 on your own, and consider the stern words it contains.

Now, considering the sabbath ordinance (the SDA hot button), it is incumbant on you to remember a detail the SDA church hasn't taught you about it.

Those the Mosaic covenant were given to were not requested to keep the sabbath day.
They were ordered to keep the sabbath day holy.

Exodus 20:8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

How was this done? Well, among other things required of the sabbath, Numbers 28:9-10 requires this:

9: And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
10: This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

Has your church complied with the sacrificial requirements charged on every sabbath?
If not, you haven't been keeping the sabbath holy. And this applies to you:

Exodus 31:13-14
13: Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14: Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Notice that this ordinance was given only to Israel.
It is the old covenant mediated by Moses.
Now that we have found that you have defiled the sabbath, what are we to do with you?

Put you to death?
Or, would you rather be redeemed from the ministration of death (2 Corinthians 3:7)?

The Pharisees opined this in John 7:49:
But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.

This was in reference to the Gentiles, who did not know the law because they didn't have the law.
If you want to know why they were cursed, read Ephesians 2:11-15.
Christ came to redeem us from that curse, as Galatians 3:10-14 explains.

Victor

 

[VictorC]

The Ten Commandments are a moral law. The first tablet covering man's relationship to God, and the second tablet covering man's relationship to each other.

Would it be okay to dismiss the convocations of the LORD recorded in Leviticus 23, since these aren't inscribed on stone tables?

 

[ricker]

I tire of hearing EGW called "pope", and in such general terms as to be applied to all SDA's.

When the official Adventist church accepts any doctrinal position that contradicts to Mrs. Whites plain teaching on any subject, or admits some of her teachings were not inspired by God, I will change my mind about her being the "pope" of the church.
God bless! Ricker

 

[mva1985]

Would it be okay to dismiss the convocations of the LORD recorded in Leviticus 23, since these aren't inscribed on stone tables?

Celebrate them if you like.

 

[NightEternal]

When the official Adventist church accepts any doctrinal position that contradicts to Mrs. Whites plain teaching on any subject, or admits some of her teachings were not inspired by God, I will change my mind about her being the "pope" of the church.
God bless! Ricker