The Right Prayer Partner

[Deadworm]

(1) This is an extremely important, but controversial issue. Sometimes people aren't healed because the right faith-filled person did not prayer for the answer to the need in question. Anglican mystic, Agnes Sanford, has written several books on prayer and spirituality. In her classic, "The Healing Light," she tells the story of her dying baby grandson. Doctors had doomed the baby to imminent death. She was caring for the boy and organized prayer vigils to pray for healing--to no effect. She prayed constantly for healing without success. Then one day, a young first-year Bible school student dropped by, saying, "I heard you have a dying baby here and I've come to pray for his healing." Agnes said she felt indignant at his presumption. Didn't he realize that she was an expert on prayer and that the room was prayer-saturated? The arrogance of this inexperienced young man! But she couldn't bring herself to deny his request; so she grudgingly complied. She watched as he picked up the baby with joy radiating from his face as he lovingly prayed for the boy's recovery. She saw the baby gloriously healed before her very eyes, and was properly humbled by the realization that this young man was the right person at that time to serve as God's instrument of healing.

Agnes, was too ego-invested and too agitated to be God's instrument of healing in this case, and the Bible school student's calm divinely instilled confidence was exactly what God needed to channel full healing. Such anecdotes could be multiplied. Agnes's humbling experience raises that question of the criteria God uses to determine "the right intercessor."

 

[Deadworm]

(2) Dave is in our small prayer group, He suffered from a massive blood clot that extended from his ankle to his groin. Doctors expressed the hope that this clot would eventually calcify, removing the risk to his heart. But Dave was advised to limit his movents due to the danger of a piece of clot breaking off and going to his heart or brain. Despite the fact the he was in great pain, he generally ignored this medical advice. Dave and his wife Patty's prayers did nothing to change his condition.

Then one day they ate at Mavericks, a restaurant I can see from my residence. An unknown young couple approached their table, asking, "I hope you don't mind my asking, but do you have a serious physical condition that needs prayer?" Dave was initially taken aback at this intrusion, especially with other customers overhearing the question. Though a tad embarrassed, he told them about the massive clot. They nodded relief, and felt that the "word of knowledge" they had clairvoyantly received was confirmed. Then the couple asked if Dave wanted prayer for his condition. He consented, but was again taken aback, when they prayed loudly for his healing. It turns out the couple were young missionaries about to leave for some African country.

Subsequent X-rays confirmed that Dave was completely healed. Dave realizes he would never have been healed unless God brought the right prayer partners. Nor would he have been healed if his pride prompted him to decline their request to pray for him. So this healing provides a great parallel to Agnes's dilemma at the presumptuous Bible school student's request. Had her pride promoted her to decline the eager young man's offer of prayer, her grandson would in my view never have been healed.

The Bible teaches that there are right and wrong ways to pray, i. e. prayer principles that facilitate a favorable divine intervention and attitudes that inhibit the power of prayer. So here is the giant pink elephant in the church, the question that would be insensitive and inappropriate to ask a seriously ill person: Are some people dead who would be alive if they had either prayed in faith or received prayer from "the right" prayer partners?

Other faith lessons from such testimonies? (1) As in Agnes's case, true humility is a great asset to effective faith. (2) Real faith takes risks, risks I would typically lack the confidence to take. I would have been more polite and prayed quietly--and my prayer would have had no effect. I would have been hedging my bets to prevent myself from looking really bad! I later learned that gifted faith healers do not pray softly in situations like that, because they want the healings to serve as a witness to God's power. (3) The younger generation is jumping out of the windows of mainline churches, because these churches are "holding to the outward form of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid them (2 Timothy 3:5)!" Thus, Paul says of his rivals: "I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on talk, but on power. (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."

 

[Rzim]

Have u ever heard of Todd White ? What does one do with this information u have provided ?

 

[Deadworm]

What does one do with this information u have provided ?

First, recognize that this issue is a key to grasping the problem of unanswered prayer. How God determines who the "right prayer intercessor" is multi-faceted. Consider (1), the case of the "inexperienced" young Bible school student whom God used to heal Agnes Sanford's grandson. Agnes was an accomplished author and an expert on prayer, whereas the young student was a nobody with a childlike faith. Agnes was too ego-invested in the task of healing her grandson. The young man's effectiveness illustrates Paul's principle of the effective "inferior member:" "God has so arranged the body [of Christ], giving greater honor the inferior member, so that there be no dissension within the body, but the members may have the same care for one another (1 Corinthians 12:24-25)."

Then consider (2), the case of the missionary couple who boldly approached Dave in the restaurant, confirmed his dire physical condition, and healed him, praying out loud. The risk they took confirms that, at the moment, they had more faith than Dave. Therefore, they illustrate this prayer principle: "Ask in faith, never doubting....For the doubter, being double-minded and unstable in every way, must not expect to receive anything from the Lord (James 1:6, 8)."

(3) Jack Deere provides another instructive example in his great book, "Surprised by the Spirit." Jack was a NT professor at Dallas Seminary and an elder in his church.
A well educated female church member was severely depressed and went to Jack and the elders for prayer. They dutifully prayed, but to my effect. Meanwhile, a psychiatrist, Dr. John White, was about to come as a guest speaker in Jack's church. When the church learned that he had recently become charismatic, they debated whether they should disinvite him! But they let him come and speak. After Dr. White's sermon, the severely depressed woman approached him to request prayer for her severe depression. Dr. White quickly discerned that her depression was caused by an oppressive evil spirit. He quietly rebuked the spirit and set her free! When Jack Deere saw how much more effective Dr. White's prayer was than the prayers of his board of elders, he was devastated. The end result was a conversion to Pentecostal/ charismatic spirituality and an experience of Spirit baptism, complete with the gift of tongues. In this case, Dr. White was the right prayer partner because he was Spirit-filled and thus able to exercise the gift of discernment on the woman's true spiritual condition. More cases to follow in future posts.

 

[Deadworm]

(4) When I was a pastor in NY state, Austin was a quiet teenager who avoided my many discussions on paranormal incidents with his parents. What we didn't know was that Austin had become addicted to certain prescription drugs and had later fathered a child out of wedlock. Then one day, he accepted his friends' dare to go see the movie "Paranormal." Austin was not the horror movie type and it frightened him badly. Soon thereafter, he began to see lights in his closet in his blackened room. He tried to ignore this, but soon psychokinetic experiences began to terrorize him. E.g. His blankets would suddenly be ripped off his bed by an unseen hand. Finally, in desperation he confessed all to his parents.

They invited 2 charismatic Christians who supposedly specialized in deliverance ministry to bless their house and exorcise any demonic presence. This had no effect and the paranormal manifestations continued relentlessly. Then in desperation, the parents called the Catholic church. This step was hard for them because they were not pro-Catholic by any means. The bishop sent a gentle Nigerian priest who, with no histrionics, quietly took command of the nasty spirit presence and successfully exorcised the house. There were no more paranormal manifestations. This Nigerian apparently had had prior experience with African witch doctors (shamans).

I learned about this and met Austin's baby son, when I was asked to return to New York state to perform the wedding ceremony for Austin's brother. I like to share this story with anti-Catholic charismatics who seem to think they have a monopoly on deliverance ministry. Again, the right prayer partner proved decisive.

I am known around here as a debunker of alleged possession cases, because I have had to deal with the harm done by wannabe exorcists who treat ordinary psychopathology and mental illness as cases of possession. Real possession cases are rare and every step must first be taken to find alternative explanations of the aberrant behavior and phenomena. Still, my family has encountered and dealt with a couple of dramatic possession cases in a convincing way, but only a couple in my lifetime. Again, the right prayer partner was essential.
Mystic

 

[Rzim]

The common denominator really being the Holy Spirit. Faith rest on the power of God. The topic is very interesting. Kinda reminds of the saying God doesnt call the equiped but he equips the called. I habe to keep it simple personally. Stay spirit filled spirit lead. The topic also tickles the 2 by 2. When he calls to 70 something and sends them out 2by2. I just hope for the courage to answer the call to such situations if called. Im hungery for genuwine believers.

 

[Farine]

I read through this discussion. In wanting to add to it.. Psalm 37:23 (KJV) says the steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord. Prayer is only one of the many steps we take in the course of a day. It would make sense that God would prompt some servants to participate especially if there was some kind of issue interfering.

What I wonder about is Romans 8:28 (we know that all things work together for good...). For whatever reason (including not having a spiritually aware prayer partner who can participate on that higher level).. should we not have our heart's desire, we still have this amazing Bible promise. SOMEHOW, our life's uh-oh's and messes have to resolve. SOMEHOW they have bless us. I still have a couple of messes that I cast a spurious glance at. Watched pots do not boil. I know God is faithful. Eventually these matters will not irk me so.

My question is what do you do when you have done all you can in both human and prayerful terms?

 

[Deadworm]

Farine: "My question is what do you do when you have done all you can in both human and prayerful terms?"

The best way to respond is to share these 2 stories:
(1) Mike and I had played bridge with an older couple for 2 years. Roz was a Jewish woman who had worked for Dick Clark of American Bandstand and had helped to launch Clark's career. Her husband Richard was a lawyer. Richard contracted a smoking-induced terminal lung disease and doctors hinted that he may never go home from the hospital. Mike and I prayed for his healing, but no obvious miracle occurred. Yet to our great surprise, Richard did go home, always needing to be connected to an oxygen tank. That was over a year ago. We still play weekly bridge and Richard is thriving. Previously unchurhce, they both now attend a local evangelical church. So our Christian witness was quite effective.

(2) I was apparently "the right prayer partner." for my new friend Russ, but almost blew it by just offering up a standard prayer for a miracle. Let me explain. I was pastoring a rural 2-church UMC charge in the Finger Lakes region of western New York. I regularly went for a walk in the nearby woods to Honeoye Lake. One day, as I came to a bend in the path, I received a mystical certainty that someone new would attend one of my churches that Sunday and that it was divinely providential that our paths would cross.

A local judge, Russ, and his wife Linda showed up that Sunday. Russ would later say that he had a profound out-of-body experience, while taking Communion. We later became good friends. After 3/ 1/2 years, I took a church in Buffalo, NY. One day, Linda called me to say that Russ's Mom was dying in the last stages of Alzheimer's Disease in a Florida nursing home. Russ had become alienated from his Mom as a young man, and now desperately wanted to be reconciled with her before she died. But she was now in a vegetative state, and Russ had visited her for a week without any meaningful communication. He was very depressed and Linda asked me to pray for him.

I tried to pray, but felt nothing and had no faith for any miracle. Then I thought, "I love Russ and so merely performing my prayer duty simply won't do!' That Friday, I decided to visit a charismatic prayer group that I had attended only once previously. After we sang a couple of praise choruses, I explained why I was there. I asked the group to gather around me as I sat in a chair and lay hands on me as a proxy for Russ's Mom. They gladly complied and soon the power of God fell and we all wept. I sensed that something had happened--but what?

On Saturday morning, I called Linda to tell her what I had done and felt. A very happy Linda told me that Russ had just called her. He had visited his Mom that morning, when suddenly she became lucid and totally rational. For 45 minutes mother and son wept in each other's arms and expressed their points of view and feelings. They were gloriously reconciled. Then, as if someone clicked a switch, his Mom sank into a manikin state and, 20 minutes later, was gone.

I was acutely aware that (a) God called me to minister to Russ during that fateful walk in the woods when God spoke to me and (b) Russ's reconciliation would never have occurred if I had just prayed in my apartment and not going the extra mile of attending that charismatic prayer group meeting. The actual prayer method used is based on the faith proxy principle illustrated by Paul in Acts 19:12. Blessings are applied to cloth aprons and handkerchiefs, which serve as proxies for sick people who can't come to see Paul. are then brought to the sick, who are unable to come and see Paul. When this cloth is brought to the sick, they are healed!

 

[Farine]

You wrote:
The best way to respond is to share these 2 stories:
(1)....."Yet to our great surprise, Richard did go home, always needing to be connected to an oxygen tank. That was over a year ago. We still play weekly bridge and Richard is thriving. Previously unchurhce, they both now attend a local evangelical church. So our Christian witness was quite effective."

(2) "I was apparently "the right prayer partner." for my new friend Russ, but almost blew it by just offering up a standard prayer for a miracle. "

First of all, I am so thankful to God for the courage to ask my question because the banquet of awe and wonder He provided through you was well worth my angst. Thank you for the time and energy to provide these accounts. Awesome! Seriously. God is so good!

Of course,I had my background challenge in my life which gave me the application for that question. Now that I see your Kingdom Citizenship expressed in your service, I can work out from the details you offered that I am not done. There is yet something to address.

Let me get some specifics here. Now, I have my husband's best friend who nearly died in the ICU being discharged to stay with us (I write but work from home). This is not a spiritually simple thing. There is a lot of turmoil in this man, a significant faith crisis and no small amount of bitterness. Still, I prayed that he would live. Hey! He is alive. I had thought I had done everything. Hmm. Something to think about.

 

[NOTWHATIWAS]

(1) This is an extremely important, but controversial issiue. Sometimes people aren't healed because the right faith-filled person did not prayer for the answer to the need in question. Anglican mystic, Agnes Sanford, has written several books on prayer and spirituality. In her classic, "The Healing Light," she tells the story of her dying baby grandson. Doctors had doomed the baby to imminent death. She was caring for the boy and organized prayer vigils to pray for healing--to no effect. She prayed constantly for healing without success. Then one day, a young first-year Bible school student dropped by, saying, "I heard you have a dying baby here and I've come to pray for his healing." Agnes said she felt indignant at his presumption. Didn't he realize that she was an expert on prayer and that the room was prayer-saturated? The arrogance of this inexperienced young man! But she couldn't bring herself to deny his request; so she grudgingly complied. She watched as he picked up the baby with joy radiating from his face as he lovingly prayed for the boy's recovery. She saw the baby gloriously healed before her very eyes, and was properly humbled by the realization that this young man was the right person at that time to serve as God's instrument of healing.

Agnes, was too ego-invested and too agitated to be God's instrument of healing in this case, and the Bible school student's calm divinely instilled confidence was exactly what God needed to channel full healing. Such anecdotes could be multiplied. Agnes's humbling experience raises that question of the criteria God uses to determine "the right intercessor."

I believe that prayers avail much when the people praying are in agreement w/ what is being prayed for.

 

[Deadworm]

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven (Matthew 5:16)." Your shining light emanates from your way of being rather than from your good deeds. If my good deeds just draw attention to myself as a wonderful person, then there is too much ego in my attempted witness. My faith is real not when it is purged of doubts, but when bitter souls sense the grace of God through my way of being.

An appropriate brief prayer for such situations:
"Lord, let my life be a window for your Light to shine through and a mirror that reflects your love to all I meet. Amen."

 

[Farine]

Excellent! I love it! **goes off to the prayer closet** thank you!

 

[Deadworm]

Farine,

My weekly Monday prayer group seeks divine intervention in situations that are seemingly impossible, impossible because God doesn't force us to make the best choices. Here are just 2 examples:

(1) We pray for parents of a mentally ill, drug-addicted daughter, whom the legal system, social services, and the health care system refuse to help. Being mentally ill, this young woman makes the terrible mistake of imagining that the dangerous drugs she takes can substitute for effective medically prescribed medications and she is easily manipulated by "druggy men." After prayer intercession, she suddenly asked to go home and stay with her Christian parents. When in her right mind, she expresses her love for Jesus. True, she then left home again, but our prayers had a positive effect.

(2) We pray for a couple with young children on the verge of divorce. Both spouses drown their sorrows in alcohol. The wife told members of our prayer group that she no longer prays and doesn't want us to pray for her. But we prayed for her anyway, and last week, she came, sobbing to the home of prayer group members, seeking prayer and praying passionately for divine help. The situation still seems hopeless because God won't interfere with the difficult choices and compromises that need to be made. But the woman's sudden change of heart about prayer seems to be a dramatic answer to prayer. I guess what all of this means is that prayer must be viewed as an instrument of relentless spiritual warfare!

Have you seen the Christian movie "War Room?" If not, I'd rent or buy it from a Christian book store or movie rental place. It's by far the best movie ever made on intercessory prayer.

 

[Farine]

I am very fond of stories such as you related. Thank you, Deadworm. I haven't seen War Room yet, but I'll have to probably watch it on the laptop as the person I mentioned.. is now on our recliner 24/7 in front of the TV with the DVD player. We are a couple of weeks into his stay and it's been illuminating. I see why God has him here.

I'm grateful that you returned to this discussion. I do have some challenges which seem to persist, much like the stories you mention. Since our God is the Ancient of Days, it seems His view on time is considerably different than ours. I remind myself about that. He's thinking beyond us in multiple dimensions. I tried my hand at Mathematics back in University. I learned a lot of it. Got my degree in it. When I got into real world situations, I learned just how deep Mathematics really goes past the Bachelor's I obtained. Here is what that taught me. I can't crunch the numbers. I can't manage the number of variables. This would hurt my brain. Trusting God to work out the calculations of my life has made a huge difference for me...

 

[musicalpilgrim]

A wonderful and inspiring thread to read...

Have you seen the Christian movie "War Room?" If not, I'd rent or buy it from a Christian book store or movie rental place. It's by far the best movie ever made on intercessory prayer.

Yes, I have the DVD and the book...and I now have my own 'War Room' (shared with the sewing machine and the ironing board)

 

[Deadworm]

I met a remarkable 90-year-old widow during the year I spent at Fuller Seminary in Pasadena. Howard Durfee, the former captain of the Harvard wrestling team, invited me to join a dozen other seminarians to listen to another of her talks in her home. I was curious as to why these athletic young guys would want to spent their time with an elderly lady. I soon found out why.

To be in Mrs. Good's presence was to be drenched in the presence of God! She would regale us like this: "You young guys think nothing of staying up until 2 AM with your pretty girlfriends, but would you give God an hour of your time on your knees? Oh no!" The guys shot wicked grins at each other! What made her the way she was?

As a younger widow, she visited a Methodist church to hear an unknown young preacher. She left the service unimpressed, but as she was driving home, she recounts this Spirit-inspired inner dialogue: "What did you think of that preacher?" Mrs. Good: "Nothing special!" The Lord: "You may not think much of him, but I'm going to use him more powerfully than any American I've ever used; and I want you to dedicate your life to being his prayer partner." Mrs. Good dutifully obeyed this inner prompting, spending hours in intercessory prayer for him; and within just a few months, Billy Graham progressed from a small time preacher to an evangelist who attracted 100,000+ to his meetings. Billy got wind of her prayer ministry and honored her by having her on the platform in one of his campaign meetings.

 

[Farine]

A wonderful and inspiring thread to read...


Yes, I have the DVD and the book...and I now have my own 'War Room' (shared with the sewing machine and the ironing board)

Welcome to the discussion! I hope you'll stick around. If you've got a war room in your home, you've got a story or two tucked away around the fabric and the notions.....

 

[Farine]

This happened this past Sunday. The one in the pool being baptized wrote this two days ago.

I am so overwhelmed with how much love I am experiencing at this moment. The love the Lord has for us is indescribable and I am so happy I made the commitment to follow the Lord as my Father. Today the pastor asked us to take a moment and see when God was in our life, and my whole life from when I was little up until this day just flashed in front of me and I can honestly say that God has always been with me even when I thought he wasn't there. His love is something we can't describe because it's just so overwhelming and powerful it's almost emotionally draining to the human body. I thank anyone who has been there for me unconditionally. I thank my boyfriend and his girls for loving me and accepting me into their family. I thank my true friends for never doubting me and never judging me and accepting me for me. I thank my family who supports me 100% and chose to love me through my wrongs, through the distance, and through my struggles. God has placed you all in my life for a reason and I just thank you all for loving me for me. This is just another new chapter in my life...



Now.. here's the story behind the story.
I walk a lot. I walk to the store. I walk to the bus. And one day, I walked past the Family Shelter that is at the base of our hill. A young man in his thirties was outside and we started talking. (That was two years ago.) He was homeless and was the custodial parent for three daughters ages 8 through 5. At some point, I'll share how God made a way for him to have a two bedroom apartment and a job in that order (the apartment came first). The young woman there heard the story and realized that only God could have done that.

Convinced of God's reality, a lot happened in a short time. Within a few weeks, she had accepted Jesus and was on fire to learn all she could about the Bible and everything starting from a blank slate. There had been no spiritual instruction in her home. I'm blown away how God could not only position a young Father to care for his daughters in a beautiful place but also by the way, save this woman just from his testimony...

 

[Farine]

I met a remarkable 90-year-old widow during the year I spent at Fuller Seminary in Pasadena. Howard Durfee, the former captain of the Harvard wrestling team, invited me to join a dozen other seminarians to listen to another of her talks in her home. I was curious as to why these athletic young guys would want to spent their time with an elderly lady. I soon found out why.....

They ought to have a 'love' option on a post .. maybe a 'love' would be worth 5 'likes'... dunno. Anyway.. AWESOME story!
It meant a lot to me. To be given the Kingdom role of an Intercessor is such a joy! Amen! Amen! Amen!

 

[Deadworm]

What a cute little outdoor baptistry pool! And she looks really blest!

Farine, I have a public IMAGE of walking a lot. That's because in a gossipy town (Colville, Wa: pop. 5,000), on the few occasions when this retired pastor does go for a long walk, one or two people see me, tell their friends they saw me, and, the first thing I know, everybody knows about my stupid walk and speaks as if I do it every day! Don't I wish? Just 2 replies to your last 2 posts:

(1) We have a lot of homeless people in our beautiful mountain-wringed town. 5 small churches here take turns offering a nutritious meal 5 days a week. As a pastor, I administered a love fund to needy people. I had to vet them first, and often thought many of them felt entitled and were conning me with their story. But every once in a while, a few that I barely recalled would return, praising God that they now had food and lodging and would gushily express their gratitude for our assistance. Even now, in my sporadic long walks, homeless people I don't recognize often smile and address me by name. Such encounters just melt my heart because I tend to be a pessimist who trivializes the impact of all my lifelong efforts at ministry.

One day, we heard that Dolly died outside on her lawn. Everyone seemed to think she was a crabby old lady, whose family had no use for her. But she was a regular at our soup kitchen. When she died, some of the unchurched poor who come to our soup kitchen asked if I'd do a memorial service for Dolly. I hesitated only because I didn't know her well enough to deliver a eulogy and no family were going to show up. But these poor people assured me that they'd offer testimonials.

A week later, a large crowd of soup kitchen people filled our sanctuary. Many of them were also alienated from their families and identified with Dolly's loneliness. Several spoke so movingly about their experiences of her. I've never sensed the presence of the Holy Spirit so powerfully in any of the countless memorial services I've performed! Though most of our soup kitchen people didn't attend church, they developed a love for God through the kindness of the 5 churches that fed them and gave them financial assistance from their love funds.

(2) I was baptized as a shy 11-year-old in a large church on Winnipeg, Canada. I was the only child to be baptized that night. We had to attend catechetical classes first, none of which I understood. The classes were full of biblical jargon like justification, sanctification, propitiation--all of which added up to so much excruciation for this kid! I especially recall the teacher telling me that I needed to be "circumcised in spirit." That was fine, except that I didn't know what physical circumcision was.

All the adults agreed to give short testimonies before their immersion in front of 1,400 people. I was too shy to agree, but felt humiliated that I was the only 1 of 12 not to testify! So the pastor had to interrogate me to make sure I was a real Christian!

Finally, I came out in the tank for my baptism, very nervous and just wanting to get it over with. But when I emerged from the water, I was thunderstruck by a vision of Jesus standing in the corner of the baptistry! He was smiling in empathizy with my plight in being lectured like an adult. God knew what a motor-mouth theology professor and pastor I was destined to become, but now I was too shy to talk. Wave after wave of liquid love surged through my being. I had just wanted to please my family and get it over with, but Jesus made sure my baptism was one of the most sacred experiences of my life.