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The point is, apart from actual evidence of a man being crucified, confirmed dead, and then coming back to life, all you have are unsupportable, unverifiable claims, for which you expect others to accept on faith, which is the very definition of "gullible."We have different views for the definition of miracle. So what's the point you are trying to make? I fail to see that this has anything to do with my post other than to attempt to derail, yet again, the thread because the OP is based on unsupportable, unverifiable claims, to promote anti-religious dogma.
I don't doubt that....I think I missed that day.
I already covered this in multiple posts. There was an investigation and it was recorded in Matthew. You even quoted the very verse that showed there was an investigation in post#273.
I explained all this in the post you are quoting. Didn’t you read it? I explained that yes there was an investigation and it would be moronic to perform a second investigation. Read the post again and stop playing games.
Now I am seeing a pattern as to why everything is going over your head; you do not actually read my post but apparently skim over them to pick out something to reply to. You apparently read the first line where I say yes and ignored my explanation as to why I said it. This is not a new angle it is the crux of my argument to show that your position was built on a fallacy argument.
Yea right. So far you haven’t answered one question I put to you. All you have done is repeat your fallacious argument and have not provided one sliver of evidence to back it up. You keep saying there was no investigation and even quoted the verses that said there was. Forgive me if I do not believe you will ever explain, or for that matter able to explain, but your track record indicates you will not.
This thread is about the resurrection miracle.
I took your remark “Even more bizarre is the thought that the pharisees actually did believe the guards, that they did believe a miracle occurred” to mean the miracle of the resurrection.
I should have worded it to pinpoint that miracle instead I simply said miracles and you responded with the verses that recorded the event where the guards saw the angel.
That passage in Matthew does not say that the guards or the chief priest believed that Jesus rose from the dead.
So yes it was because I worded it wrong and yes I did, and have read many times, all four gospel accounts of the resurrection story.
So even though he states in post#302 that “it doesn't matter if the investigation occurs after Easter Sunday or on it.” he has made it quite clear in multiple posts that it does matter when the investigation was performed. He makes it quite clear that the investigation on Easter Sunday does not answer his question posted on the OP.
This is the circle that jason_delisle mentions in post#304. On the one hand he continues to chant that “no investigation” took place and then when presented with evidence that shows an investigation did take place he rejects that because it didn’t take place after Easter Sunday; which he says doesn’t really matter anyway. He then jumps back at the start of the circular reasoning and states that no investigation took place.
It is no wonder he chose his handle which means he rejects all religious and moral principles because he believes that life is meaningless. It is meaningless to him because he is unable to perform basic rational and logical evaluations of the data around him.
If it doesn’t matter when the investigation took place as he states in post#302 then his question has been answered. There was an investigation.
But, as you suggest, because the chief priest didn’t call in the forensic scientists then his argument must be the investigation performed by the guards posted at the sepulcher is null and void.
[HitchSlap and I] have different views for the definition of miracle. So what's the point you are trying to make? I fail to see that this has anything to do with my post other than to attempt to derail, yet again, the thread because the OP is based on unsupportable, unverifiable claims, to promote anti-religious dogma.
What are you expecting, full CSI? They looked, he was gone.
How is that contributing to this thread? I found your post to be offensive and childish.The point is, apart from actual evidence of a man being crucified, confirmed dead, and then coming back to life, all you have are unsupportable, unverifiable claims, for which you expect others to accept on faith, which is the very definition of "gullible."
So, why believe it?
Provide the same evidence the Abraham Lincoln existed.....The point is, apart from actual evidence of a man being crucified, confirmed dead, and then coming back to life, all you have are unsupportable, unverifiable claims, for which you expect others to accept on faith, which is the very definition of "gullible."
So, why believe it?
No I was relying on the topic of this thread which is about an investigation in the miracle of the resurrection. This has nothing to do about any recollection of the accounts written in Matthew.You were relying upon your own casual recollection of the story, thinking the miracle was the resurrection, instead of READING the text and seeing what the miracle was (the appearance of an angel).
I never said that. You have now completely changed your argument from no investigation to an irrational report.You think it is moronic to investigate an irrational report.
Never said that either. It is your unsubstantiated opinion that there was an irrational explanation. So what we have here is a strawman fallacy. When you have no argument you twist the opponents comments and argue that.So you are saying that they were satisfied with having no rational explanation at all?
I understand that you now realize you do not have an argument so you have changed course. I covered the reasons for concluding that the guards had to investigate the sepulcher in detail at least three times.OK, OK, so you claim that the guards looked in the tomb and saw it was empty (do you actually have evidence for this?). The fact is that their report is fantastical, and needs to be investigated. Again, what part of this do you not understand?
I did see that but as I already explained, and you wish to ignore because you think it supports your view that I am ignorant, is that I was focusing on the topic of this thread which is the investigation of the resurrection miracle. The guards would not have known that Jesus was resurrected because he did not appear to them so how would they report that to the priest? All they knew was that the body was missing.Well, had you bothered to read Matthew 28, you'd see that it clearly states that the guards saw the angel, were afraid, fled, and told the pharisees what happened. You have absolutely no excuse for your ignorance.
I most certainly did not say nothing supernatural happened. This is an outright lie. I posted the guards action to prove the point that they investigated the sepulcher after the stone was rolled away. This thread is not about whether other miracles happened at all so I had no reason to address them.You were quite clear that nothing supernatural happened, and this is why you kept claiming that a second investigation would be moronic.
Seriously?So if we go by the established pattern, it's quite clear that when you say those things about me you're referring to yourself.
I’m sure the guards would have been able to tell if there was bloody foot prints or drag marks. Since it has been established, and ignored by you, that the guards would have to have gone inside the sepulcher in order to report that the body was gone what exactly would a second investigation accomplish? Had there been blood evidence then they would have reported that to the priest since it says they reported all that was done.Forensic scientists. So hilarious. Yes, because back then no one was qualified to look at blood and be able to tell if a bloody body was dragged along the floor or if there are bloody footprints of bare feet.
Yes, the guards had to look inside the tomb to report to the chief priest that the body was missing. I clearly showed that the guards reported “all” that had happened. The rest of your argument is a strawman; not my position whatsoever.The OP has unsupportable, unverifiable claims. Like the claim that the guards looked inside the tomb, or the claim that no supernatural event was reported to the pharisees.
Not once again, you have never stated until your last post#347 that an investigation even took place at all. It has always been your position that no investigation took place; at all.Once again, this investigation would not be satisfactory because it says that supernatural events took place.
Nope I am not saying no supernatural event took place, never said that and never indicated that. This is your attempt to create a strawman because you finally realized you have no legitimate argument to support your slippery slope argument.In conclusion, you summarize by saying that no supernatural event occurred and that the guards looked inside the tomb. I'm not entirely sure if you've been correct about a single detail.
Answer my question then, how does that contribute to this thread. You must have me confused with someone who cares whether you accept anything on faith or not. I have never indicated such and could care less what you believe or accept. I am dealing with the thread via the data presented. The OP quite clearly allows evidence from the Bible. Its offensive and you posted it to be offensive because you have nothing else to contribute to this thread.I'm sorry you find my statements offensive, but I have no control over your feelings. But it does come down to that, doesn't it?
Where does it say that the Pharisees believed a miracle occurred? Where does it say the guards believed a miracle occurred and reported that occurance? All we can conclude from the Biblical account is that the guards witness an earthquake and noticed the stone sealing the sepulcher was no longer in place. When they investigated they saw that the sepulcher was empty. Some of them went to report their investigative findings to the priest. The priest fearing that people would believe a miracle had happen bribed the guards to say they fell asleep and Jesus’s body was stolen. Making a conclusion of anything other than that would be pure conjecture.
I most certainly did not say nothing supernatural happened. This is an outright lie. I posted the guards action to prove the point that they investigated the sepulcher after the stone was rolled away. This thread is not about whether other miracles happened at all so I had no reason to address them.
How many rapes have never occurred because He did intervene?So God is saying that he won't intervene for a rape victim because Adam ate forbidden fruit a few thousand years before the woman was born?
Other than rational thoughts and parsimonious explanations, you're correct.Answer my question then, how does that contribute to this thread. You must have me confused with someone who cares whether you accept anything on faith or not. I have never indicated such and could care less what you believe or accept. I am dealing with the thread via the data presented. The OP quite clearly allows evidence from the Bible. Its offensive and you posted it to be offensive because you have nothing else to contribute to this thread.
Just asking....it has only been about 150 years.....should be easy to do.Why, did he rise from the dead, too?
Yes, it's easy to do.Just asking....it has only been about 150 years.....should be easy to do.
I'm waiting.....Yes, it's easy to do.
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
You arrive at your belief there is no God the same way as people who embrace their religion's belief there is a God; without proof. You can't prove there is no God yet you debate the issue. How is that rational? Your position is no different.Other than rational thoughts and parsimonious explanations, you're correct.
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