The Restoration Movement?

[joshuanazar]

I recently saw something about this restoration movement, where apparently Christians were trying to get back toward the way the early church was. I was like yea, I think the early church for the most part was the model church before traditions got into it. So I read what their statements of faith were and I agreed with them.
1 No creed but Christ.
2 Where the scriptures speak, we speak; where the scripture is silent, we are silent.
3 In essentials, unity; in non essentials, freedom; in all things, love.
4 We are not the only christians, but we are christian only.
5 the priest hood of all believers.

This seemed like a great movement. But I found out that it was not a movement, but a denomination (or a group of related denominations) and that sadly I did not agree with some of the essentials that they discussed.

But why can't we actually have a real movement?

 

[stray bullet]

A real movement towards what? The writings of the early Church are out there and many Christians do not want to have anything to do with them. The structure of the early Church is known and people do not want anything to do with it.

And I am not talking about the "bible" either. You can make the bible say anything you want. You can, however, actually read from actual people from 60 AD on about the early Church and what they did and how they worshiped. It's all there but people ignore it.

What people want is a restoration of their version of the early Church.

 

[Job8]

A real movement towards what? The writings of the early Church are out there and many Christians do not want to have anything to do with them. The structure of the early Church is known and people do not want anything to do with it.

You seem to be forgetting that many erroneous doctrines and practices infiltrated the early churches, particularly Gnosticism. One cannot depend on the ECF to know what exactly should be the doctrine or the structure of a church.

At the same time, all Christians have Bibles, and the Bible is indeed the Word of God. Restoration to the New Testament pattern is feasible but will not be accepted by the majority of denominations, since they would have to abandon denominationalism. As to the Restoration Movement, it began as a good idea but also included many erroneous, and indeed heretical, teachings.

 

[joshuanazar]

You seem to be forgetting that many erroneous doctrines and practices infiltrated the early churches, particularly Gnosticism. One cannot depend on the ECF to know what exactly should be the doctrine or the structure of a church.

At the same time, all Christians have Bibles, and the Bible is indeed the Word of God. Restoration to the New Testament pattern is feasible but will not be accepted by the majority of denominations, since they would have to abandon denominationalism. As to the Restoration Movement, it began as a good idea but also included many erroneous, and indeed heretical, teachings.

Thank you, I agree with you completely on this. So let's pray that God starts a real movement.

 

[BryanW92]

The "early church" is too romanticized these days. We look around and see the modern church being infiltrated by the secular culture, and when the church won't bow to the secular culture, the secular culture tries to run it over.

So, we look back "to the good ole days" and think that it was all wonderful back then. But it wasn't. There were heretics springing up all over the place. There were people with "no creed but Christ" finding all sorts of secret knowledge in scripture. For every documented problem, there were probably hundreds of undocumented ones, because that's how any organization works.

And those people didn't even have the unlimited distractions and fast-paced lives that we have today.

Love God. Love your neighbor. Love your church. Love the world.

Of those four, only God is perfect. Stop hating the church for what it isn't. Love it for what is is. Do you hate your neighbors for not being perfect?

 

[joshuanazar]

The "early church" is too romanticized these days. We look around and see the modern church being infiltrated by the secular culture, and when the church won't bow to the secular culture, the secular culture tries to run it over.

So, we look back "to the good ole days" and think that it was all wonderful back then. But it wasn't. There were heretics springing up all over the place. There were people with "no creed but Christ" finding all sorts of secret knowledge in scripture. For every documented problem, there were probably hundreds of undocumented ones, because that's how any organization works.

And those people didn't even have the unlimited distractions and fast-paced lives that we have today.

Love God. Love your neighbor. Love your church. Love the world.

Of those four, only God is perfect. Stop hating the church for what it isn't. Love it for what is is. Do you hate your neighbors for not being perfect?

No body is saying that they hate the church. What I am saying is that even with their problems the early church had power, they had anointing. I am not saying that our movement should be to reclaim the early church, but to reclaim the anointing.

 

[dayhiker]

Lot of good thoughts.

I agree the early church isn't perfect any more than we are perfect today. To the extend we love God and love people we are fulfilling the law as love is the only way to fulfill the law.

Even if the early church was perfect, what they understood back the world to be is so different than the world we live in today, that their understanding wouldn't work. So one of the great marvels to me is God has His word written so well that we can still read it today and have it speak to us.

 

[BryanW92]

No body is saying that they hate the church. What I am saying is that even with their problems the early church had power, they had anointing. I am not saying that our movement should be to reclaim the early church, but to reclaim the anointing.

We don't believe enough to have anointing. Most Christians don't believe in demons as a cause of things that psychologists call mental illness, so what good would our anointing serve? If we are afraid to cast out a demon, what can we do against cancer? Just this one post will cause someone to announce that mental illness is real and not a demon. Get that? Real, and not a demon...which is not real to us. They will proclaim that their mental illness is not a demon becuase they don't want to think of a demon that we could expel, but would rather treat it as a chemical imbalance to be treated with drugs.

Over the last few years, quite a few people in various restoration movements have come and gone here. They quote from web sites while claiming that they do not follow the "creeds of man".

Strive to be a slightly better Christian than you are today and stop worrying about the "perfect church" that never really existed. Revelation says that Jesus wins in the end, even with the imperfect church and his imperfect followers. He wins because he is fighting for us and not because we are fighting in his place.

 

[joshuanazar]

We don't believe enough to have anointing. Most Christians don't believe in demons as a cause of things that psychologists call mental illness, so what good would our anointing serve? If we are afraid to cast out a demon, what can we do against cancer? Just this one post will cause someone to announce that mental illness is real and not a demon. Get that? Real, and not a demon...which is not real to us. They will proclaim that their mental illness is not a demon becuase they don't want to think of a demon that we could expel, but would rather treat it as a chemical imbalance to be treated with drugs.

Over the last few years, quite a few people in various restoration movements have come and gone here. They quote from web sites while claiming that they do not follow the "creeds of man".

Strive to be a slightly better Christian than you are today and stop worrying about the "perfect church" that never really existed. Revelation says that Jesus wins in the end, even with the imperfect church and his imperfect followers. He wins because he is fighting for us and not because we are fighting in his place.

I completely agree. A lot of people in church are weak, but not all. And I seriously believe that even if our flesh keeps us from becoming the perfect church, we can be stronger. Though, we have to realize that the strength, the anointing, will not come by our striving. Anointing comes only through his grace and love.

I do not want the church to start a movement, I want them to see that God has already started the movement by extending his grace. Not everyone in church will see this at first, but a few will. It only takes a spark to create a wildfire. Soon because a few people has noticed God moving and has received the gifts that he is offering (including the anointing), more people will take notice until even the spiritually bankrupt will not be able to deny that God is moving.

 

[Receiver]

...
But why can't we actually have a real movement?

I'm with one, being going and growing since the 1960s.

Fairly small in the US but several thousand members in Australia and ten times that in Papua New Guinea & Africa.

 

[BryanW92]

. It only takes a spark to create a wildfire.

I think that you hit on the key there. Many Restorationists have declared the organized church to be too decadent to be saved so they go off to to separate themselves. I've been in a movement for many years that works within the existing churches to bring that spark back and make it go viral in the local church.

Restoration of anything, whether it be a house, an old car, or a church is an activity that requires you to work with the old, corrupted object until the restoration is complete. restoration is hard and often dirty work, but the end result is worth it.

 

[joshuanazar]

I'm with one, being going and growing since the 1960s.

Fairly small in the US but several thousand members in Australia and ten times that in Papua New Guinea & Africa.

What is this movement and is it really a movement or just the starting of another denomination?

 

[joshuanazar]

I think that you hit on the key there. Many Restorationists have declared the organized church to be too decadent to be saved so they go off to to separate themselves. I've been in a movement for many years that works within the existing churches to bring that spark back and make it go viral in the local church.

Restoration of anything, whether it be a house, an old car, or a church is an activity that requires you to work with the old, corrupted object until the restoration is complete. restoration is hard and often dirty work, but the end result is worth it.

I agree I want the churches to come together, not separate further. I have never particularly liked denominations and I do not believe that the church needs anymore.

 

[BryanW92]

I agree I want the churches to come together, not separate further. I have never particularly liked denominations and I do not believe that the church needs anymore.

The church doesn't "need" denominations, nor has it ever "needed" them. But, they really don't separate the church any more than having multiple church buildings in one neighborhood separates the church. We are all united in Christ. The details found in the various denominations and all the different non-denominations are little more than the color of paint on a wall or choice of floor coverings in the overall Kingdom.

There's a saying that goes, "You bloom where you are planted". It means that if you consider yourself to be a point of light in God's kingdom and you are in a church that doesn't have a lot of lights, you shouldn't go looking for a brighter place that "deserves" your wonderfulness.

Instead, you should be the pilot light in the place where you are. Let others light their flame off yours. The brightly lit churches don't need you, but the dimly lit ones might just wither and die without you.

Many restoration/revival types get this and they are hard at work in their church. But some have walked away because they are searching for more light. It makes you wonder if they really are the bright flame they think they are.

 

[joshuanazar]

The church doesn't "need" denominations, nor has it ever "needed" them. But, they really don't separate the church any more than having multiple church buildings in one neighborhood separates the church. We are all united in Christ. The details found in the various denominations and all the different non-denominations are little more than the color of paint on a wall or choice of floor coverings in the overall Kingdom.

There's a saying that goes, "You bloom where you are planted". It means that if you consider yourself to be a point of light in God's kingdom and you are in a church that doesn't have a lot of lights, you shouldn't go looking for a brighter place that "deserves" your wonderfulness.

Instead, you should be the pilot light in the place where you are. Let others light their flame off yours. The brightly lit churches don't need you, but the dimly lit ones might just wither and die without you.

Many restoration/revival types get this and they are hard at work in their church. But some have walked away because they are searching for more light. It makes you wonder if they really are the bright flame they think they are.

Again, I agree. Well at least in part. The part that I agree with is staying where God put you instead of running off looking for something easier. I also agree with church being more than just the building that you go to. The part that I am having trouble with is that some people do separate themselves from others who do not share there denominational beliefs. There are some people that believe that women cannot preach and if you go to a church with a female pastor that you will go to hell along with her. Also I do not see Catholics and Calvinists attending picnics together. I know that it isn't apart of their denominational doctrines to act this way, that it is just darkness clouding peoples minds. But the fact remains that there are people out there that do act as if their denomination is the only true church. And I really cannot help but wonder what good is denominations? In fact I am thinking of starting a thread just to see if anyone can convince me of some benefit to it. What do you think?

 

[1watchman]

I think one should be where they feel convinced it is of God; and for myself I found after some years of trying various denominated sects that God still has a scriptural order (Bible-only). I have been with the so-called "brethren movement" of 1827 AD for over 50 years and am quite settled and happy there. I share that fellowship with those who might be searching.

 

[terryjohn]

[There are over twenty churches in out small city of around 80000. I am making my way around them to get a sense of the state of health of the body of Christ. Going from one to another, I do wonder what the difference is, for by all apearances they are the same, with the same problems and same desires. I see all such churches as the body of Christ. In fact, I see them all as strengthening the gospel and essential in maintaining the purity of it. When denominations close of access to ministry opportunities, then competing denominations are there to provoke each to action. A move forwards in the eyes of unbelievers is when all of these churchs start supporting and loving each others ministries and giftings. When men try to control and limit the spirit, they begin to die. I would love to see someone join a church they personally did not quite agree with and through love tranform it or at least get thrown out because of their rigntsousness and zeal for God./QUOTE]

 

[Receiver]

What is this movement and is it really a movement or just the starting of another denomination?

What is "a movement"?

God only *nominated* one way, one church, what *He* wants ... what JESUS set up!
Man has de-nominated that way (broken it up)

We are moving with God by doing things his way, in doctrine & practice.
God is blessing that with increase.

 

[joshuanazar]

What is "a movement"?

God only *nominated* one way, one church, what *He* wants ... what JESUS set up!
Man has de-nominated that way (broken it up)

We are moving with God by doing things his way, in doctrine & practice.
God is blessing that with increase.

When God sent the Holy Spirit down on the believers at Pentecost, that was a movement, when persecution in Jerusalem cause the Church to spread like wildfire to the surrounding countries, that was a movement. It really does seem like a lot of church people are not doing things God's way anymore. It seems as if they are merely doing what they think God's way is, but a lack of understanding prevents them from knowing what his way really is. I am not talking about all christians, just the ones that this applies to.

 

[Receiver]

When God sent the Holy Spirit down on the believers at Pentecost, that was a movement, when persecution in Jerusalem cause the Church to spread like wildfire to the surrounding countries, that was a movement. It really does seem like a lot of church people are not doing things God's way anymore. It seems as if they are merely doing what they think God's way is, but a lack of understanding prevents them from knowing what his way really is. I am not talking about all christians, just the ones that this applies to.

Well, a lot of Christians, or people that assume they are Christians, are finding fault with what other so-called Christians are or are not doing.

Jesus is returning for those that are doing what he wants!
- being led of His Spirit.

Movements of the Holy Spirit aren't just the "big" things like the day of Pentecost and persecution.
Every day someone walks with God is a movement of the Holy Spirit!