A-Mil Only The rest of the dead did not live until the 1000 years came to an end?

[TribulationSigns]

Sorry, I've read it several times and the passage doesn't say what you assume it does.

Too bad. You may read the same verses many times yet do not understand or deny.

Typically, Dispensational theologians use popular and political speeches about worldly things to lead the gullible astray, and all with the appearance of piousness, great sincerity and regard for taking the Bible literally. They feign love for the truth, while rejecting it out of hand, just as the Scribes, Priests, Pharisees and the Sadducees did. They are equated with them because these are those who "by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple" while giving the impression of being orthodox ministers of righteousness. ...just as the Pharisees and the Sadducees. But the truth is, neither had the Spirit of truth or sound doctrine concerning the kingdom of Christ.

John 8:43

• "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word."

It's not by accident that many cannot hear the word of God, even when it's clearly testified to them word for word. Christ said they cannot hear His word (understand what He was saying) because it was not given to them to hear it. His sheep Hear His voice, and they couldn't hear it because they were not His sheep. Selah. That's what Christ said. We understand not because we are smarter, or listen more carefully, or went to a seminary, or had the greatest teacher, but because God gave us ears to hear. Those who reject God's word of truth are spiritually deaf.

So, He that hath an ear, let him hear.

Praying for you.

 

[Trivalee]

Yes, I did. Matthew 12:28-29 and answer the questions:

#1. Who is the Strong man?
#2. What is his house?
#3. Who is it that comes to bind him?
#4. What are the possessions in the strong man's house that he wants to Spoil (take by conquest)?
#5. What "MUST" be done first, before that can happen?

When you have answered those questions nobly, it's absolute! There can be no other rational conclusion but that:

#1. Satan is the strong man.
#2 His house is the adversarial principality.
#3. Christ is the one who came to bind him and take the possessions or prisoners in his principality
#4, the Church were those possesions being held captive or in bondage by Satan
#5. Christ is he who had to First, bind Satan!

If indeed Christ had cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then obviously it was the power of God manifest in Him, and thus unambiguously demonstrated that He was the prophesied Messiah, the Son of David who was to come and establish that Kingdom. The same Son of David of whom the multitude spoke in the first instance. It was indeed for this reason the Pharisees had accused Christ of having a devil. Consider wisely and in context.

Matthew 12:22-24

• "Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
• And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the Son of David?
• But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils."

But indeed Christ had cast out devils by the Spirit of God and that meant that the Messiah, the Son of David had been manifest, and His Kingdom had come unto them. It is in this "context" that Christ speaks about how He must first bind Satan. When Christ cast Satan out of individuals, He was 'signifying' by this that the Kingdom of God had come (Matthew 12:28). For the kingdom of God is placed within men (Luke 17:21) by Christ coming to dwell where Satan once was, it's not an earthly kingdom. And the Spoiling of Satan's Kingdom or principality is the principle of this parable. His goods, (The Spoil) are all of the disciples, and all of us who were unsaved (in captivity to Satan) and deceived of Satan, who are now set free in Christ. This parable is a clear picture that God gives us to illustrate Christ is the Messenger of the Covenant that came down from heaven to establish the Kingdom of God by plundering the house of Satan, and setting free those who sat in the darkness thereof. And God tells us, first Christ had to bind the strong man, and only then could He spoil his house. This is not incidental or insignificant language. Scripture must be defined by scripture, not by Theologians. When we do that, it is clear the binding of satan took place at the cross.
Again in Mark chapter 3. The Lord Jesus has the blasphemous accusation brought against Him that He was working through Satan. Christ asks them, "how can He battle against the Kingdom of Satan, if He is of the Kingdom of Satan? A House divided against itself cannot stand! And He declares:

Mark 3:26

• "And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except He FIRST Bind the strong man; and then He will spoil his House."

These are God's parables and God puts parables in His Word not to be "ignored", but to be considered and discerned. Some people close their eyes and ears to the truth because of their Church tradition, but this is unrighteousness of the highest order. God says, "hear His parable!" Christ is the one who has come to conquer this strong man's (Satan's) kingdom, and God says, in order for Him to spoil Satan's house, Satan first had to be bound. I didn't say that, A theologian didn't say that, my Church didn't say that, God said it! We merely bear faithful witness or testimony to what God said. Satan had to be bound in order for Christ to spoil (take by conquest) the captivity. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Prove us with Scripture you claimed that Satan has NOT yet bound. Show us.

Foolish accusations. We have shown you the Scripture yet you DENY it. Period.

Of course not.

Satan was bound ONCE at the Cross. God bound Satan as long as He is building His Church. Once God finished secured all of His Elect through the testimony of Two Witnesses, The testimony of Two Witnesses is FINISHED and Satan came out of the bottomless pit to be used by God as a judgment upon the unfaithful congregation prior to Second COming. Simple as that.
If you deny that Satan was bound at the cross or even today, you are not saved today. That is why CHrist needs to bind Satan FIRST in order for you, me and others for the past 2,000 years to be saved, per Matthew 12:28-29.

Praying for you!

To believe that no one can be saved unless satan was bound is unscriptural because even though the word 'saved' is not commonly applied to those that walked with God in the OT; by our understanding of the word today, all of the OT faithful were saved. Since by your admission, satan was supposedly bound at the cross, how do you explain those that believed in God in the OT? How come satan couldn't stop them?

It is very unfortunate that your heart is closed to the truth. You have taken a fancy to fantasy; making assumptions without scriptural support. For example, I challenge you to provide a single scripture that shows satan coming out of the bottomless pit BEFORE Rev 20:7

 

[TribulationSigns]

To believe that no one can be saved unless satan was bound is unscriptural because even though the word 'saved' is not commonly applied to those that walked with God in the OT; by our understanding of the word today, all of the OT faithful were saved. Since by your admission, satan was supposedly bound at the cross, how do you explain those that believed in God in the OT? How come satan couldn't stop them?

It is very unfortunate that your heart is closed to the truth. You have taken a fancy to fantasy; making assumptions without scriptural support. For example, I challenge you to provide a single scripture that shows satan coming out of the bottomless pit BEFORE Rev 20:7

Ahhh, you blinked with a response to my post.


Easy answer. Because the OT faithful within Israel was small compared to the whole world where New Testament congregation went forth with Gospel. The ministry of the New Testament church was much bigger and stronger after Christ established His kingdom through the church.

In case you did not know about Daniel 8

Dan 8:3-7
(3) Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
(4) I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
(5) And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
(6) And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
(7) And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

The he-goat represents the kingdom of Satan with a notable horn representing his power before the Cross. However, Christ broke the great horn of the he-goat and scattered his power to the four winds.

Now as for the two horns or power of the congregation of Israel representing the Kingdom of Christ. The first horn represents the power of the O ld Testament Israel and the second horn represents the power of the New Testament Israel, the Church. They are the two congregations representing the kingdom of Christ. So the greater power cameup last because the New Testament church kingdom went into all the ends of the earth and brought in people from all nations. So that it was not just Israel, as was the power of the other horn. That is the greater power of the Ram Kingdom and the later is great BECAUSE the church went forth with the power of the HOLY SPIRIT which Christ empowered it. This is why Christ had to bound Satan to accomplish this so that Christ could build HIs kingdom by spoiling people form Satan's house. Selah!

Deuteronomy 9:13
"Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they".

John 14:12
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father".

While blindness has happened to Old Testament Israel, New Testament Israel has grown and brought in countless souls to the throne of Grace by the power of the Kingdom. At least until the later days, when the little horn arises.

Mt 21:42-43
"Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

See, the kingdom representation was taken from Old Testament Israel and given to the New Testament Israel, the Church. THIS is the greater power, greater nation, greater horn that comes up LAST. That is why the church came forth after the Cross! And this holy nation brings forth fruits. See?? Abraham's seed is no longer just about the nation Israel, but great multitudes from all nations as the sand of the sea.
To deny that Christ bound Satan so he could empower the church to go forth to the world to bring forth fruits, much greater than old testament Israel could. The Old Testament Israel only saved very few people out of the nation itself while the whole world was lost and apart from the commonwealth of Israel. This all changed when Christ went to the cross, bound Satan, and empowered His church with his spirit to bring in much more people. Once all Gentiles be coming in, AND SO all Israel are saved. In other words, all the Elect from the Old Testament and New Testament has been secured. That is the picture of Daniel 8.

After all Israel has been secured, the little horn appears in the end. It is the full power for a short season that Satan will have once he comes out of the bottomless pit to attack the New Testament congregation just like He did with the Old. Sorry, there won't be a future salvation plan for national Israel.

If you deny this or won't accept it. Then I can't help you understand. It is between you and God.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

These are the typical beliefs of pre-Millennialists,

And they are the typical beliefs of Amillennialists as well, so what is your point?

Here is what I said that you quoted:

Revelation 20 does not refer to the bodily resurrection of believers, it only refers to the bodily resurrection of unbelievers.

Do you not think that this something that Amillennialists typically believe? I believe it is. Amils typically believe that having part in the first resurrection is a spiritual event rather than physical.

I do believe that the first resurrection itself is physical

Many amils agree with this and I clarified that I was talking about Jesus's resurrection in particular. We spiritually have part in His resurrection, the first resurrection, when we become saved.

and they do maintain the parallelism between Rev 20:4 and Rev 20:5. But there is no suggestion of a physical Millennium anywhere else in the NT. It is only in Rev 20, which is a highly symbolic chapter.

Where did I indicate that I believe in "a physical Millennium"? I didn't. So, it seems that you misunderstood what I said in that post.

 

[Andrewn]

Do you not think that this something that Amillennialists typically believe? I believe it is. Amils typically believe that having part in the first resurrection is a spiritual event rather than physical.

Many amils agree with this and I clarified that I was talking about Jesus's resurrection in particular. We spiritually have part in His resurrection, the first resurrection, when we become saved.

Yes, Amils typically believe that having part in the first resurrection is a spiritual event rather than physical. Thus there is no parallelism w/ Rev 20:5.

Where did I indicate that I believe in "a physical Millennium"? I didn't. So, it seems that you misunderstood what I said in that post.

I needed to read your comments more carefully.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes, Amils typically believe that having part in the first resurrection is a spiritual event rather than physical. Thus there is no parallelism w/ Rev 20:5.

Do you know what is the first death before the first resurrection, Andrewn?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Yes, this is the typical Amil understanding and I like the way you expressed it.


The "rest of the dead" rise physically to face judgement is the usual Amil view. But it doesn't make sense to interpret v. 4 as a spiritual resurrection and v. 5 as a physical resurrection!

The whole message of Revelation 20 is describing the closeness the redeemed are to Christ since the first resurrection – His glorious resurrection. Living believers are no longer separated from the presence of God by curtains in a physical temple. They can enter into the presence of God at any time. What is more, no longer do believers need to go to Hades upon death but rather enter the immediate presence of God in glory. The wicked dead, on the other hand, go to Hades upon death. They wait there until judgment day.

The "rest of the dead" are the wicked – those who reject the Gospel call. They remain separated from God until judgement day. The wicked are barred from the presence of God upon death, although they experience it at the judgment. They are only brought to life to the degree that they are resurrected at Christ’s coming to encounter Christ, and even then, it is for the solemn purpose of hearing those awful words “away from me I never knew you” at the judgment whereupon they receive their final punishment.