The replacement

[Hentenza]

They are not in the OC blessing, they did not accept the redmption to free from the curse. They are not in the "us" as a nation.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—


Well bro, are they in the church now? I mean nationally, not are there Jewish Christians.

No, the Jews corporately are not in the church now. They have never been. Gal. 3 does not help you. Please take context into account.

 

[Hentenza]

I meant now, kinda thing. They are right on the issue.

Not now or after their individual establishment.

 

[Lion King]

Ortho and I never come on GT w/o our bullet proof vests and our weapons

http://www.christianforums.com/t7577000-21/#post58045970
The problem for Anti-Torah types...

Sorry to disappoint ye Dragonslayer...

"No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD." Isaiah 54:17

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Sorry to disappoint ye Dragonslayer...
"No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD." Isaiah 54:17

Which weapon do you think would win in this fight?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7577565/#post58030433
[sword vs gun]

 

[Frogster]

No, the Jews corporately are not in the church now. They have never been. Gal. 3 does not help you. Please take context into account.

Gal 3 does help, u said they are in the OC blessing, yet scripture says cursed, unless one accepts the cross, which they have not. Are they in the redemption, the "us", of 13? If not, where are they?

Paul is the very one who showed they are enemies of the gospel, they are not in Abraham, and when Jews come to Christ, poof..to all that natural stuff.

 

[brinny]

Ortho and I never come on GT w/o our bullet proof vests and our weapons

http://www.christianforums.com/t7577000-21/#post58045970
The problem for Anti-Torah types...

LOL!

 

[Hentenza]

Gal 3 does help, u said they are in the OC blessing, yet scripture says cursed, unless one accepts the cross, which they have not. Are they in the redemption, the "us", of 13? If not, where are they?

Paul is the very one who showed they are enemies of the gospel, they are not in Abraham, and when Jews come to Christ, poof..to all that natural stuff.

See, that is what happens when context is removed in favor of a pet doctrine. Paul never showed that they were not in Abraham nor did Paul taught that the church replaced Israel.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Which weapon do you think would win in this fight?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7577565/#post58030433
[sword vs gun]

twoedged sword

2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword:

Psalm 149:6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand;

2Cr 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

 

[from scratch]

Revelations 7 for starters, since this is conclusive for how the endtimes will play out, but if you want more the bible is full of scriptures that tell of how God is going to bring His people back to Himself, and they will be brought back to a place of honor

There are 2 different things being discussed and confused here. Natural Israel and the spiritual state of man.

 

[CalmRon]

The natural born decendants were 'cut off from' by the time Christ, it's to Christ that the promises were ultimately made- note that in Hebrews, the author points out that the promise was made to Abraham and his seed; he points out that it is to a singular seed not plural. That seed is Jesus Christ. Jesus was the only member of corporate Israel who was never disqualified to inherit the promise. There by making him the remnant of israel when all others were cut off. This should not surprise anyone because God did it in the past with large chunks of Israel; in the wilderness after the exodus god punished Israel many time for their unfaithfulness. He caused plagues to break out against them cutting off from corporate Israel all those individuals who sinned. Later he almost removed the tribe of Benjamin from israel. Later still he removes the north kingdom out of the inheritance. Later still he sends Judah into exile and only brings back A remnant. Why should it surprise you that God left Jesus as the final remnant of israel to whom the promises were given? All who believe are grafted in to that tree; one of the prophets states that a shoot grows out of the stump of Jesse, and we of faith are grafted in to that. Or again Jesus states I am the true vineouTou are the branches. It is not as though those who were once in Israel cannot be grafted in; Paul himself knew that the Jews no longer had claim to the promise except by christ.

 

[from scratch]

I think Hitler took this bad replacement theology to a whole new level, I would say the bible is correct, and we (the church) are simply a wild branch grafted in, only because of the Jews rejection are we blessed to be received, God has a remnant, aand He will save His people just as the bible foretells

But graft into what? The Root or the tree?

 

[CalmRon]

But graft into what? The Root or the tree?

The root. Jesus is that root

 

[Hentenza]

But graft into what? The Root or the tree?

The tree. The root supports the tree.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

First, you say the Church is Israel, and then, you also go on to say that the Church is part of Israel.

Which one is it, exactly?

Perhaps approaching from the other side will help.

From the Christian POV~

Any Jew, who does not acknowledge Christ Jesus as God and King, has cut himself off from Israel no matter where he lives or what state he should belong to.

Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

Forgive me...

 

[Hentenza]

Perhaps approaching from the other side will help.

From the Christian POV~

Any Jew, who does not acknowledge Christ Jesus as God and King, has cut himself off from Israel no matter where he lives or what state he should belong to.

Forgive me...

That is true but, how does this help your case that the church replaced Israel corporately? Do you consider that replacement permanent?

 

[ivebeenshown]

Romans 11 explains it perfectly. So we have this tree, right? That tree represents the nation of Israel, or God's people. God has one people, you know? Anyways, that tree represents Israel. So then we are grafted into that tree. The branches that were cut out of that tree, you see that, right? Well, those branches are those who are of Israel according to the flesh, but who did not accept the Messiah. Not in Christ means not in Israel. They can be grafted back in, and how? By accepting the Messiah.

Hosea 11:1
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Matthew 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Mat 2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 8:9 ...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Ephes 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.


Thought these were kool...


Heb 11:14-15 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Exodus 3:6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Looking at I and the children the LORD has given me...

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Isaiah 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Acts 14:3 Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.

Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Heb 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

 

[simonthezealot]

But once Jewish people come into the new cov, is it not the same cov that gentile frog is in? One rule....Do I know become a member of a place, i don't live in?

Think you missed the point of the scripture I posted, Far as I know the order of the sun and the moon are still the same?
Agree or disagree?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Gen 27:9 Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

And likewise (contrary to Jerm 31:35) he says...

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

"In them" in relation to the sun here.....

Psalm 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

And likewise...

Isaiah 60:20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

 

[RND]

The Nation of Israel was replaced by Jesus Christ and not the church. Those that accept Christ and are joined with Him become adopted members of the family.

All was fulfilled by Christ.