The replacement

[Frogster]

Frogster, it boils down to a very simple question:


Does God Lie?

No, they just did not understand the promise, and the spiritual ramifications of it, no more jew or gentile, gal 3:28.

The promise did not fail. And that promise has conditions, it is pre circumcision, and still is.


6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

 

[frankleespeaking]

So do you have a Scriptural basis for this idea?

Revelations 7 for starters, since this is conclusive for how the endtimes will play out, but if you want more the bible is full of scriptures that tell of how God is going to bring His people back to Himself, and they will be brought back to a place of honor

 

[Hentenza]

"Replacement thelogy" was coined to demagogue those who do not worship Israel.

That is not true. There is no worship of Israel. Replacement theology merely addresses those who are "replacing" God's promises to Israel and apply these promises to the church.

Replacement theology is bunk.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Im really interested in hearing the views of those who say Israel has been replaced by the Church.

Here I am.

The Church is Israel.

Forgive me...

 

[Hentenza]

Here I am.

Grafted.

The Church is Israel.

Nope.

 

[Frogster]

That is not true. There is no worship of Israel. Replacement theology merely addresses those who are "replacing" God's promises to Israel and apply these promises to the church.

Replacement theology is bunk.

When paul got saved, was his new identity all about israel? Jewish people are welcome to come into the household, of jew and gentiles.


Where does Paul take it all, in Eph 2, spiritual or natural, after jewish laws ended, 2:15, so we can be on new man?

It is presently being built, in Eph 2, it is not about a natural destination.

 

[Lion King]

Here I am.

The Church is Israel.

Forgive me...

I was wondering when you would show up.

Anyways, what makes you believe that the Church is Israel? Didn't the LORD say that He would never reject His people (Israel)?

 

[Hentenza]

When paul got saved, was his new identity all about israel? Jewish people are welcome to come into the household, of jew and gentiles.

His "new" identity was neither Jew nor Greek. Grafted.

Where does Paul take it all, in Eph 2, spiritual or natural, after jewish laws ended, 2:15, so we can be on new man?

It is presently being built, in Eph 2, it is not about a natural destination.

Of course is still being built. The time of the gentiles is still current and the church continues to grow. Where does these verses teach replacement theology?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I was wondering when you would show up.

Anyways, what makes you believe that the Church is Israel? Didn't the LORD say that He would never reject His people (Israel)?

And he hasn't has he. Those who follow Christ are part of Israel. Those who do not aren't.

One cannot reject the true leader of Israel and still call themselves by that name.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Grafted.



Nope.

That's your opinion Henry and your welcome to it.

I'll stick with the Apostolic Christian teaching if you don't mind.

Forgive me...

 

[Hentenza]

That's your opinion Henry and your welcome to it.

I'll stick with the Apostolic Christian teaching if you don't mind.

Forgive me...

The early Apostolic Christian did not believe in replacement theology either. Replacement theology progressively grew as the "church" sought supremacy.

 

[Frogster]

His "new" identity was neither Jew nor Greek. Grafted.




Of course is still being built. The time of the gentiles is still current and the church continues to grow. Where does these verses teach replacement theology?

Yes, it is a new identitiy, it is presently happeneing, and has nothing to do with natural israel. So really, the replacement word is silly. ( i don't mean u)More like, one new man, one new temple kind of thing.

Ok, so right now, are unsaved jews, who are in israel, in the mystical church?

In other words, if the church is already here, and they are in rejection of the apostles and the corner stone it is being built on, are they in the blessing? And once they do, does it all change to natural Israel?

 

[Frogster]

The early Apostolic Christian did not believe in replacement theology either. Replacement theology progressively grew as the "church" sought supremacy.

The Catolic's and the EO's got it right on this one bro.

 

[Hentenza]

Yes, it is a new identitiy, it is presently happeneing, and has nothing to do with natural israel. So really, the replacement word is silly. ( i don't mean u)More like, one new man, one new temple kind of thing.

The thing is that it is not happening apart from Israel. Many a Jew is joining the church.

Ok, so right now, are unsaved jews, who are in israel, in the mystical church?

No, unless they come to Christ. Israel, corporately, is unbelieving.

In other words, if the church is already here, and they are in rejection of the apostles and the corner stone it is being built on, are they in the blessing?

No, they are still in the OC blessing and in future promises. Remember that the law is a tutor for those without faith.

And once they do, does it all change to natural Israel?

In the future the bible prophesies that Israel will corporately (probably as a remnant) accept Jesus as the Messiah. At that point they will enter into the promises of the NC and the days of the gentiles will end.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA Here I am.

The Church is Israel.

Forgive me...

I was wondering when you would show up.

Anyways, what makes you believe that the Church is Israel? Didn't the LORD say that He would never reject His people (Israel)?

Ortho and I never come on GT w/o our bullet proof vests and our weapons

http://www.christianforums.com/t7577000-21/#post58045970
The problem for Anti-Torah types...

Thats why I mentioned my other gun.

M2 Browning

This was my TO weapon for seven years.

Forgive me...

 

[Hentenza]

The Catolic's and the EO's got it right on this one bro.

There was no Catholic nor EO in the early church so no, they have not gotten it right. The early ECF's held to a chiliastic position.

 

[Lion King]

Here I am.

The Church is Israel.

Forgive me...

And he hasn't has he. Those who follow Christ are part of Israel. Those who do not aren't.

One cannot reject the true leader of Israel and still call themselves by that name.

Forgive me...

First, you say the Church is Israel, and then, you also go on to say that the Church is part of Israel.

Which one is it, exactly?

 

[Frogster]

The thing is that it is not happening apart from Israel. Many a Jew is joining the church.



No, unless they come to Christ. Israel, corporately, is unbelieving.



No, they are still in the OC blessing and in future promises. Remember that the law is a tutor for those without faith.




In the future the bible prophesies that Israel will corporately (probably as a remnant) accept Jesus as the Messiah. At that point they will enter into the promises of the NC and the days of the gentiles will end.

They are not in the OC blessing, they did not accept the redmption to free from the curse. They are not in the "us" as a nation.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—


Well bro, are they in the church now? I mean nationally, not are there Jewish Christians.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

This theology also effects the political climate in the nations view of Israel and its very existence.

That's the problem really. The issue has been caught up with a hot button political debate in the US. It should be looked at primarily from a theological perspective and on it's own merit

There are some big players in this debate who really shouldn't be invovled and are not involved out of any real concern for theological correctness but merely for politics. Right wing politicians who use the "Christian Right" bandwagon to get elected, pro- Israeli propagandists, etc.. I'm sure the same is true from many on the "other side" as well.

 

[Frogster]

There was no Catholic nor EO in the early church so no, they have not gotten it right. The early ECF's held to a chiliastic position.

I meant now, kinda thing. They are right on the issue.