The replacement

[visionary]

There is the thought that "Israel" should scripturally be replaced with the term "church" on all the good blessings God lays on "Israel"'s head.. and all the curses the Israelites can keep.

My question to you is.. where do you stand on the replacement theology?

Do you think that the Catholic Papacy is the best replacement?
Do you see Israel being replaced by Christians in general?

Vatican rejects “chosen people” claim, calls on Israel to end “occupation” — RT

This theology also effects the political climate in the nations view of Israel and its very existence.

 

[from scratch]

There is the thought that "Israel" should scripturally be replaced with the term "church" on all the good blessings God lays on "Israel"'s head.. and all the curses the Israelites can keep.

My question to you is.. where do you stand on the replacement theology?

The idea is a complete fraud. See Romans 11.

Do you think that the Catholic Papacy is the best replacement?
Do you see Israel being replaced by Christians in general?

Nope to both the above questions.

Vatican rejects “chosen people” claim, calls on Israel to end “occupation” — RT

This theology also effects the political climate in the nations view of Israel and its very existence.

It affects way more than this.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There is the thought that "Israel" should scripturally be replaced with the term "church" on all the good blessings God lays on "Israel"'s head.. and all the curses the Israelites can keep.

My question to you is.. where do you stand on the replacement theology?

Do you think that the Catholic Papacy is the best replacement?
Do you see Israel being replaced by Christians in general?

This theology also effects the political climate in the nations view of Israel and its very existence.

My own personal view is that Jesus came to replace the corrupt murderous Judean priesthood mentioned in the NT/NC with one that worships God in spirit and truth.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1497204-2/#post14890808
"Replacement" Theology!?

I've got a question for those here who know more about church history than myself. As I've understood it, the belief that the church is God's spiritual Israel has been the historic position of the church. Yet many today have latched on to the dispensationalist theology that was invented in the nineteenth century, and have labelled the more ancient belief "replacement theology." I was wondering if anyone knows the names of any church fathers I can read who affirmed the belief that the church is spiritual Israel.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Matt 26:64 Jesus Is saying to him "thou say, moreover I am saying to ye, from present/now ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights of the power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".
[Jeremiah 4:13Reve 1:7/6:16]

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me that I am being anguished in the Flame this."
[Matthew 3:9/Acts 7:30-38]

 

[from scratch]

My own personal view is that Jesus came to replace the corrupt murderous Judean priesthood mentioned in the NT/NC with one that worships God in spirit and truth.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1497204-2/#post14890808
"Replacement" Theology!?


Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Matt 26:64 Jesus Is saying to him "thou say, moreover I am saying to ye, from present/now ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights of the power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".
[Jeremiah 4:13Reve 1:7/6:16]

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me that I am being anguished in the Flame this."
[Matthew 3:9/Acts 7:30-38]

Naw,Jesus came to do way more than that.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Naw,Jesus came to do way more than that.

Tis true....I was just responding to the topic of "replacement", as according to Hebrews 7, Jesus was to be according to the order of Melchizedek, correct?
With that, I am just gonna lurk awhile

Hebrews 7:1 For this the Malkiy-Tsedeq King of Salem, Priest of the God/'El of the most-high, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings and blesses him [Genesis 14:18/Matt 26:26]

Kindgdom Bible Studies Royal Priesthood Part 24
The Royal Priesthood Melchizedek

One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about.
The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION,

 

[from scratch]

Tis true....I was just responding to the topic of "replacement", as according to Hebrews 7, Jesus was to be according to the order of Melchizedek, correct?
With that, I am just gonna lurk awhile

Hebrews 7:1 For this the Malkiy-Tsedeq King of Salem, Priest of the God/'El of the most-high, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings and blesses him [Genesis 14:18/Matt 26:26]

Kindgdom Bible Studies Royal Priesthood Part 24
The Royal Priesthood Melchizedek

One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about.
The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION,

Yeah v 12 also shoots a hole in their foot doesn't it? Well at least they have holy feet.

 

[simonthezealot]

Israel is not replaced by the church.
Alot of my very smart friends are amillenialists aka replacement theology folk... Truth is there needs to be an awful lot of manipulating scripture to avoid what is clearly in the bible...Most times when we remove an interpretation from what it clearly says we are walking on some ground bolstered by our own pride...
Far as I know the order of the sun and the moon are still the same so how do we say God abandoned His promised covenants? see Jeremiah 31:
The New Covenant

31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
35 Thus says the Lord,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the Lord of hosts is his name:
36 “If this fixed order departs
from before me, declares the Lord,
then shall the offspring of Israel cease
from being a nation before me forever.”

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yeah v 12 also shoots a hole in their foot doesn't it? Well at least they have holy feet.

Possibly

http://www.christianforums.com/t7426625-22/#post54380621
Book of Hebrews verse by verse [Chapt 7]

#3346 used 6 times in 5 verses. Used 1 time each in Acts 7, Galatian 1, Jude 1, 2 times Hebrews. [The ISA interlinear shows #3346 used for both words]

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

However, the KJV uses #3331 for the 2nd greek word and it is used 3 times in 3 verses, all in Hebrews. It is mentioned with Enoch in Hebrews 11:5 [where these words are mentioned twice also]

#3346 appears to be formed by the prefix #3326 and root word #5087 while #3331 also uses the prefix #3326 but perhaps a different form of #5087.

Most bible versions use "changed/change" while the D-R uses "translated/translation" for them.

# 3346 could denote a physical change while #3331 could denote a "heavenly" type of change? Any thoughts?

7:12 For of being translated/metatiqemenhV <3346> (5746) the priesthood, out of necessity also of law a translation/metaqesiV <3331> is becoming..........

 

[Nienna_Lady_of_Tears]

I grew up in a church that believed in replacement theology and in my opinion it turns God into a complete fraud. God promised all manner of things to Israel, and God keeps his promises. It is to Israel he promised these things, not the Church, and although the church has been grafted INTO Israel this does not mean that Israel has disappeared nor that God's promises to her are null and void.

To claim that the church is the replacement of Israel is to claim that God lies and doesn't keep his promises. This is not in keeping with the character of God.

 

[RETS]

God's "Chosen People" is still comprised those who are Israelites, though not necessarily "Jews." I only say this due to conversions, but that's just one point I'm not clear on.

What I am clear on is the fact that most in the church are not aware of what actually took place with the death of Christ. Many seem to believe that the Christian Church has somehow replaced Israel as the Chosen people. However, there are two major things wrong with this thought pattern.

The first is the promise God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To all three men, He promised that their descendants would be HIS PEOPLE.

The second is that Paul states that were were grafted into the line of Abraham.


In other words, we, the Christian church, have been made a part of the Chosen People by being grafted into the promise made to Abraham. We have not replaced them, we have joined them.



That's why I chose "Other."

 

[from scratch]

So I'm interested in what verses are used to promote this idea that Isreal is replaced by the church. Bet they're out of context verses and easily refuted.

 

[frankleespeaking]

I think Hitler took this bad replacement theology to a whole new level, I would say the bible is correct, and we (the church) are simply a wild branch grafted in, only because of the Jews rejection are we blessed to be received, God has a remnant, aand He will save His people just as the bible foretells

 

[FaithPrevails]

I chose other b/c I believe that Israel is still a nation and that they are God's chosen people. Christianity does not negate that, IMO.

 

[from scratch]

I grew up in a church that believed in replacement theology and in my opinion it turns God into a complete fraud. God promised all manner of things to Israel, and God keeps his promises. It is to Israel he promised these things, not the Church, and although the church has been grafted INTO Israel this does not mean that Israel has disappeared nor that God's promises to her are null and void.

To claim that the church is the replacement of Israel is to claim that God lies and doesn't keep his promises. This is not in keeping with the character of God.

So do you have a Scriptural basis for this idea?

 

[Lion King]

Im really interested in hearing the views of those who say Israel has been replaced by the Church.

 

[Frogster]

The whole idea though, is that the one new man, is a spiritual temple, as per eph 2. 1 Peter 2. No, a spiritual body has nothing to do with a natural place, but once jewish people come into the promise, they are no longer in the flesh. "Buts" are very important in scripture. Israel is not in the blessing of Abraham, but the Abrahamic spiritual body is.


Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

 

[RETS]

For those looking to learn about "Replacement Theology," it was recently brought up in a political thread I started down in the International Politics forum.

I'll leave the link here.

 

[Frogster]

Israel is not replaced by the church.
Alot of my very smart friends are amillenialists aka replacement theology folk... Truth is there needs to be an awful lot of manipulating scripture to avoid what is clearly in the bible...Most times when we remove an interpretation from what it clearly says we are walking on some ground bolstered by our own pride...
Far as I know the order of the sun and the moon are still the same so how do we say God abandoned His promised covenants? see Jeremiah 31:
The New Covenant

31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
35 Thus says the Lord,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the Lord of hosts is his name:
36 “If this fixed order departs
from before me, declares the Lord,
then shall the offspring of Israel cease
from being a nation before me forever.”

But once Jewish people come into the new cov, is it not the same cov that gentile frog is in? One rule....Do I know become a member of a place, i don't live in?

 

[RETS]

Frogster, it boils down to a very simple question:


Does God Lie?

 

[Frogster]

"Replacement thelogy" was coined to demagogue those who do not worship Israel. Just like how a liberal will say. "you don't support a womans right to choose!", if you are not pro abortion.

Or you are a "homophope", if you do not support the gay agenda.

Or, you are "anti environment" if you want to cut down a tree.