The regeneration

[Jerrysch]

In Matthew 19 Jesus is speaking;

23 And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27 Then Peter said to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?"
28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
​

To what is He referring when He speaks of the regeneration?

 

[Hedgehog]

Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[Dispy]

In Matthew 19 Jesus is speaking;

23 And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27 Then Peter said to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?"
28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
​

To what is He referring when He speaks of the regeneration?

The "kingdom of heaven" in verse 23 is referring to the kingdom that Jesus is going to establish here upon the earth.

In verse 27 Peter asked Jesus ""Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?"

Jesus' reply can be found in verse 28.

In Acts 3, 12-18 we find that Peter is accusing his Jewish listeners of the murder of Jesus. In verses 19-21 Peter is telling his listeners what they must do in order in order for the scriptures to be fulfilled, and spoken of by all the OT prophets.

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therfore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, WHEN THE TIMES OF REFRESHING SHALL COME FROM THE PRESENSE OF THE LORD;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you;
21 Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL THE TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN."

At Christ 2nd advent, He will establish His kingdom and the earth will be restored to its former beauty.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Dispy]

Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

PLEASE explain to me just how this fists into Matthew 19:23-29.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Dave Taylor]

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therfore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, WHEN THE TIMES OF REFRESHING SHALL COME FROM THE PRESENSE OF THE LORD;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you;
21 Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL THE TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN."

I like that verse.

It clearly teaches that Jesus remains in Heaven until the 2nd Coming; and doesn't leave heaven for an early pretrib descent.

At Christ 2nd advent, He will establish His kingdom and the earth will be restored to its former beauty.

There is much wisdom in this comment, too...because when the earth is restored at the 2nd Advent; all sin and death will be removed; and all the wicked of the earth will be destroyed.

 

[Dispy]

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therfore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, WHEN THE TIMES OF REFRESHING SHALL COME FROM THE PRESENSE OF THE LORD;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you;
21 Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL THE TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN."
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much and Praise the Lord!

I like that verse.

It clearly teaches that Jesus remains in Heaven until the 2nd Coming; and doesn't leave heaven for an early pretrib descent.

At the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, Jesus does not come down to the earth. We meet Him in the air.

1Thess.4:16 "...the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we EVER BE WITH THE LORD."

At Christ 2nd advent, He will establish His kingdom and the earth will be restored to its former beauty.

[/b]I like that verse.

There is much wisdom in this comment, too...because when the earth is restored at the 2nd Advent; all sin and death will be removed; and all the wicked of the earth will be destroyed.

Dave, if I recall correctly, you were the one who was concerned that I believe that the TO saints were going to be relagated to this earth. Did you change your mind.

The OT saints will be resurrected to enter the promised kingdom and that Jesus established upon His 2nd coming. In Revelation 20:4 that those killed during the Tribulation perid will also be resurrected and will reign with Christ for 1,000 years (Rev.20:3).

5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." These are the lost from the time of Adam. They will be judged according to their works and cast into the lake of fire. (Rev.20:11-15.)

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Dispy]

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therfore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, WHEN THE TIMES OF REFRESHING SHALL COME FROM THE PRESENSE OF THE LORD;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you;
21 Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL THE TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN."

I like that verse.

It clearly teaches that Jesus remains in Heaven until the 2nd Coming; and doesn't leave heaven for an early pretrib descent.

At the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, Jesus does not come down to the earth. We meet Him in the air.

1Thess.4:16 "...the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we EVER BE WITH THE LORD."

At Christ 2nd advent, He will establish His kingdom and the earth will be restored to its former beauty.

There is much wisdom in this comment, too...because when the earth is restored at the 2nd Advent; all sin and death will be removed; and all the wicked of the earth will be destroyed.

Dave, if I recall correctly, you were the one who was concerned that I believe that the TO saints were going to be relagated to this earth. Did you change your mind?

The OT saints will be resurrected to enter the promised kingdom and that Jesus established upon His 2nd coming. In Revelation 20:4 that those killed during the Tribulation perid will also be resurrected and will reign with Christ for 1,000 years (Rev.20:3).

5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." These are the lost from the time of Adam. They will be judged according to their works and cast into the lake of fire. (Rev.20:11-15.)

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Dave Taylor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by: Dispy

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therfore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, WHEN THE TIMES OF REFRESHING SHALL COME FROM THE PRESENSE OF THE LORD;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you;
21 Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL THE TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN."

Quote: Originally Posted by: Dave Taylor

I like that verse.

It clearly teaches that Jesus remains in Heaven until the 2nd Coming; and doesn't leave heaven for an early pretrib descent.

At the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, Jesus does not come down to the earth. We meet Him in the air.

1Thess.4:16 "...the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we EVER BE WITH THE LORD."

Your reply missed the point of what Acts 3 is talking about.

Acts 3 teaches Christ will remain in Heaven until (as you said, 'the Second Advent') or the restitution of all things.

When you bring I Thessalonians into the mix; it only further confirms this; and further confirms the resurrection cannot be pre-trib; but occurs at the 2nd Advent.

For, according to Acts 3; Jesus remains in Heaven until the restitution of all things (The 2nd Advent); and we see in I Thessalonians; at the 2nd Advent; Jesus finally descends from heaven...

I Thess 4:15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (Advent) shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven

Perfect harmony with Acts 3 which teaches Jesus remains in Heaven until the 2nd Advent.

Dispy,
Does that help you see now, that it is time to punt the modern pretrib theory; and return to the historic view of the Bible and of the church; that the resurrection and gathering of Christ's Elect occurs only at the 2nd Advent? Not some secret prior pretrib advent?

 

[Dispy]

[/b]Your reply missed the point of what Acts 3 is talking about.

Acts 3 teaches Christ will remain in Heaven until (as you said, 'the Second Advent') or the restitution of all things.

When you bring I Thessalonians into the mix; it only further confirms this; and further confirms the resurrection cannot be pre-trib; but occurs at the 2nd Advent.

For, according to Acts 3; Jesus remains in Heaven until the restitution of all things (The 2nd Advent); and we see in I Thessalonians; at the 2nd Advent; Jesus finally descends from heaven...

I Thess 4:15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (Advent) shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven

Perfect harmony with Acts 3 which teaches Jesus remains in Heaven until the 2nd Advent.

Dispy,
Does that help you see now, that it is time to punt the modern pretrib theory; and return to the historic view of the Bible and of the church; that the resurrection and gathering of Christ's Elect occurs only at the 2nd Advent? Not some secret prior pretrib advent?

Dave:
At the time of Pentecost, in Acts 3, the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ, was still a secret/mystery. It can't even be found in prophesy. Peter at Pentecost understood all the Scripture (Luke 24:45) and was speaking as the Spirit gave him utterance (Acts 2:4). So Peter knew exactly where he was in the timetable of prophesy. Remember, Paul was still unsaved.

1Cor51:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The Trump/Trumpet mentioned in 1 Cor.15 and 1Thess. 4, are not the "7the (last trump) found in the book of the Revelation. The book of the revelation wasn't written for several more years yet. It signals the end of the dispensation of grace.

Verse 17 tell us that Jesus is not coming to the earth but we are to meet them in the clouds, to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus is not coming to the earth to establish His kingdom, but taking us to heaven "to ever be with the Lord."[/B

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they (unbelievers) shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye (believers), brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us (believers) not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath (The Tribulation), but to obtain salvation (rapture) by our Lord Jesus Christ,

According to OT prophesy, Israel must go through the Tribulation before Jesus can establish His kingdom and the restoration of all things. 1Thess.5 tells us believers that we will not go through the Tribulation.

It is quite apparent that you do not understand the distinction between OT prophesy and "the mystery" that was revealed to Paul. Once one understand that, then one has a better understanding of the Bible.

In his book "THINGS THAT DIFFER" by Pastor C.R.Stam, he shows 14 differences between OT PROPHESY (P), and the MYSTERY that was revealed to the Apostle Paul, that "was kept secret since the world began."

1. (P) Concerns a kingdom; a political organization (Dan. 2:44, Matt. 6:10).

(M) Concerns a body; a living organism (I Cor. 12:12,27, Eph. 4:12-16).

2. (P) The kingdom to be established on earth (Jer. 23:5, Matt. 6:10).

(M) The body given a position in heaven (Eph. 1:3, 2:5-6, Col 3:1-3).

3. (P) Christ to be its King (Jer. 23:5, Isa.9:6,7).

(M) Christ its living Head (Eph. 1:19-23,Col. 1:18).

4. (P) The kingdom prophesied "since the world began" (Luke 1:68-70, Acts3:21).

(M) The body chosen in Christ before the world began, but "kept secret since the world began" (Rom. 16:25, Eph. 1:4-11, 3:5-9).

5. (P) Israel to be given supremacy over the nations (Isa. 60:10-12, 61:6).

(M) Jew and Gentile placed on the same level before God (Rom. 10:12, 11:32,Eph. 2:16,17).

6. (P) The Gentiles to be blessed through Israel’s instrumentality (Gen.22:17,18, Zech. 8:13).

(M) The Gentiles blessed through Israel’s obstinacy (Acts 13:44-46, Rom. 11:28-32).

7. (P) The Gentiles to be blessed through Israel’s rise (Isa. 60:1-3, Zech. 8:22,23).

(M) The Gentiles blessed through Israel’s fall (Acts 28:27,28, Rom.11:11, 12, 15).

8. (P) Prophecy mainly concerns nations as such (Isa. 2:4, Ezek. 37:21, 22).

(M) The mystery concerns individuals (Rom. 10:12, 13, II Cor. 5:14-17).

9. (P) Prophecy concerns blessings, both material and spiritual, on earth (Isa.2:3, 4, 11:1-9, etc.).

(M)The mystery concerns "all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies" (Eph.1:3, Col. 3:1-3).

10. (P) Prophecy concerns Christ’s coming to the earth (Isa. 59:20, Zech. 14:4).

(M)The mystery explains Christ’s present absence from the earth (Eph. 1:20-23, Col. 3:1-3).

11. (P) In prophecy salvation by grace through faith alone is not contemplated.

(M) Salvation by faith alone lies at the very heart of the mystery (Rom. 3:21-26, 4:5, Eph.2:8,9).

12, (P)The proclamation of the prophetic program committed particularly to the twelve (Matt. 10:5-7, Acts 1:6-8, 3:19-26).

(M) The proclamation of the mystery committed particularly to Paul (Eph.3:1-3, 8-9, Col. 1:24-27).

13 (P) The prophetic program revealed through many of God’s servants (Luke 1:70, II Pet. 1:21).

(M) The mystery revealed through one man; Paul (Gal. 1:1, 11, 12, 2:2, 7, 9,Eph. 3:2,3).

14. (P) Old testament writers frequently did not understand the prophecies made known through them (Dan. 12:8-10, IPeter 1:10-12).

(M) Paul both understood and longed that others might understand the mystery revealed through him. (Eph.1:15-23, 3:14-21, Col. 1:9 -10, 2:1-3).

Hope this is helpful.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.