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Instead of attacking why can’t you make an actual argument?
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Instead of attacking why can’t you make an actual argument?Funny how things work, you inadvertently prove others correct.
I did, and you inadvertently confirmed it.Instead of attacking why can’t you make an actual argument?
What was your argument? Can you point to the post?I did, and you inadvertently confirmed it.
That's not complete moral freedom, that is limited moral freedom.So what, you still have free will. An alcoholic who cannot choose not to drink (BECAUSE OF HIS PREVIOUS FREE WILL CHOICES) can be moral in other matters.
Slaves are not free.You can post Jn 8:34 10 more times, it is not a passage against free will.
Having COMPLETE moral freedom does not equate to free will.That's not complete moral freedom
Slave are free to be kind, charitable, and to worship God.Slaves are not free.
Your charity is getting worse.Your hole is getting deeper.
Nope, see post # 44Misrepresentation. . .see post #37.
I agree about that with regards to post #44So sad. . .
This is no longer concretecamper, this is contankerouscrab.I agree about that with regards to post #44
Your free will.My weakness
AGAIN!!!, proving my point. Thank youYour free will
How so?AGAIN!!!, proving my point. Thank you
Please keep in mind that my comments about the "Will" are strictly in the moral/immoral context.Did God create his intelligent children with free will?
Though many whether religious or non religious claim not, and argue against this, the answer is clearly yes.
What is the proof?
There are a number of scriptures, but let's start with John 8:44
Starting with God's heavenly children - the spirit creation, called angels, the Bible says of the one called Devil and Satan... When he lies, he speaks out of his own character. That is... pertaining to self, or of his own.
The disciple James uses this term in this way...
James 1:14
Jesus thus makes clear that the angel that became Satan the Devil, acts according to his own will, or desire.
Jesus further states in the same verse, John 8:44... "your will is to do your father’s desires".
Humans too, have their own will, which is in opposition to the father.
Can sin be blamed for the will of intelligent creatures?
Jesus said, the one called Devil and Satan, "was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him".
So, no, this was a deliberate opposing of the truth. Hence, the name Satan.
It's also important to note that this angel .... in fact all of the angels... none are born in sin and shaped in iniquity.
So, sin cannot be claimed as a hinderance to free will. Nor can it be claimed that they have to give in to wrong desires.
The angels make their own decisions to do what the want. Genesis 6:2
Proof that the angels - God's heavenly children, do have free will.
Regarding humans, the same apply.
In saying that their will is to do Satan's desire, what was Jesus pointing out? They were acting on their own will. Not anyone else's.
That humans have free will is made clear in other scriptures.
1 Timothy 2:14
The Bible says Adam was not deceived.
Thus Adam acted on his own free will.
The verse says, Eve became a sinner, only after acting on her desire.
Adam and Eve were free willed agents... not driven by sin, but making free willed decisions.
Proof that humans... God's earthly children were created with free will.
Did sin somehow cancel out free will.
In the imagination of many, that is the case.
However, the Bible does not say that after sin came into the world through one man, that free will became obsolete.
Rather, the scriptures refer to man's free will, repeatedly.
Leviticus 1:3; 1 Corinthians 9:16-18 Deuteronomy 30:19; 2 Corinthians 9:7; Philemon 1:14
The Greek word hekousios - meaning free will, is the neuter of a derivative from hekon; voluntariness -- willingly, which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will" (J. Thayer).
Thank you for mentioning some things that man can freely make moral choices.To sin or not to sin is not a moral choice? Are you sure? Surely to kill or not to kill or to steal or not to steal are moral choices, are they not?
Where did you get this?Are you sure about that?. . .Keeping in mind that "free will" is not a Biblial notion, but a human notion.
If one ignores the scriptures Galatians 5:1, 13; Galatians 6:6, 16, 17, they will believe that.The Biblical notion is that all men are slaves to sin (Jn 8:34). . .slaves are not free.
You need to mention one particular moral choice men cannot make. Otherwise, this statement has no meaning.If you are unable to make any particular moral choice, you will is not completely free, it is limited.
Who decides what is moral? Is it not God?The will of fallen man is unable to make the moral choice to be sinless, therefore, fallen man's will is not completely free, it is limited.
Or as Jesus puts it, he is a slave to sin (Jn 8:34). . .slaves are not free.
Not suggesting. Just asking... Are you saying that free will means making only right choices?Actually it kind of proves her point. If you have free will to be charitable then your free will would apply in every circumstance but since you agree that sometimes you fail then that means that sometimes you free will fails so you don’t have the free will that you think you have.
So if you fail at being charitable sometimes and being charitable is a moral choice then you fail sometimes at all moral choices which means that you don’t have the free will to make all moral choices.
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