The Real Presence? Everyone respond. :)

[LuxPerpetua]

I'm asking this question knowing full well that I'm not going to have a lot of time to read or post this upcoming week, but this is something that has been on my mind a lot lately. I sit on the fence between Protestantism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy, and I'm currently trying to sway myself to one way or the other (or . . . erm . . . the third other way) through prayer and questioning, so bear with me. Here is my question:

What do Protestants think about the nature of the Eucharist (real presence only, symbolic only, real presence along with the elements??) and why is what we think of the nature of the Eucharist important enough to divide believers?


Thanks in advance for your thoughtful responses. I'm going to check back later this upcoming week to see how this thread progresses. I apologize in advance for my neglect and for posting this thread at a bad time for me, but I really felt like I needed to ask someone today rather than waiting.

 

[JVAC]

Lutherans, Anglicans/Episcopalians, Moravians all believe in the Real Pressence of Our Lord in the Holy Sacrament of the Altar. The Holy Spirit makes real Christ's body and blood in this most Holy meal. When you come to commune, you must expect to recieve Christ's body and blood. "For His body is true meat and His blood is true drink." (John 6:55)

 

[InquisitorKind]

What do Protestants think about the nature of the Eucharist (real presence only, symbolic only, real presence along with the elements??) and why is what we think of the nature of the Eucharist important enough to divide believers?

I would opt for symbolic nature with a spiritual presence. The reason for division has to do with worship. If the Eucharist isn't Christ's actual flesh and blood, adorning it as such is idolatry; you'd be venerating a piece of bread and some wine as the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. If it is the actual flesh and blood, Protestants like myself are treating the Lord's body with disrespect. 1 Corinthians 11:27 applies here.

~Matt

 

[dsdumpling]

I receive communion as the disciples did, symbolic. At the last supper when Jesus broke the bread and offered the cup, it was symbolic. I'm not sure if my Methodist roots believe the same as I.

 

[Momzilla]

Well, I personally believe in the real presence, so I can't answer the "why not" question from my personal perspective. However, I have heard it preached that if Christ is "really present" in the eucharist, then he is sacrificed over and over again, contradicting the notion that his one sacrifice was sufficient.

I don't buy that logic, personally--I'm just repeating what I've heard elsewhere.

 

[Lotar]

I would opt for symbolic nature with a spiritual presence. The reason for division has to do with worship. If the Eucharist isn't Christ's actual flesh and blood, adorning it as such is idolatry; you'd be venerating a piece of bread and some wine as the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. If it is the actual flesh and blood, Protestants like myself are treating the Lord's body with disrespect. 1 Corinthians 11:27 applies here.

~Matt

Only Catholics do the adoration thing. The Orthodox, Anglicans, and Lutherans do not.


Is it a Church dividing issue? Probably. It seems to me that it would be sinful to partake in unbelief of Christ's promises.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

does "everyone" mean only PRE?

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

...When you come to commune, you must expect to recieve Christ's body and blood. "For His body is true meat and His blood is true drink." (John 6:55)

What version is that?

 

[Phoebe]

I believe that Christ is present in Holy Communion.


It is bread and wine comprehended in God's Word and connected with it.

Christ does not say, "If you believe, or if you are worthy, you receive my body and blood," but, "Take, eat and drink, this is my body and blood."

 

[Dark_Lite]

Spiritual Presence.

Which is also what Methodism teaches...

 

[countrymousenc]

Lux, I believe in the Real Presence

From the NKJV:

1 Corinthians 10:
16.The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 11:
23. For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread;
24. and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.''
25. In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.''
26. For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.
27. Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup.
29. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.
31. For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
32. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

(From: Bercott, David W. A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs. Massechussets: Hendersnon Publishing, 1998.)

"I desire the Bread of God, the heavenly bread, the bread of life - which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.... And I desire the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life." - St. Ignatius (c. 105)

"They [the Gnostics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not believe the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ... Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death." - St. Ignatius

"...Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh adn blood for our salvation. So, likewise, we have been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word ... is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." - St. Justin Martyr, c. 160

"[The wine and bread] having received the Word of God, become the Eucharist, which is the body and blood of Christ." - St. Irenaeus, c. 180

 

[Celeste]

I feel compelled to tell you all this. So bear with me.
I felt terrible this one time I went to church. (I don't or can't remember the reason.) I do know I was haveing a time with my faith etc.
It was one of those Sundays when we take communion when I was waiting to take my turn. (I felt alienated, so I was confused as to what to do.) I looked up and there before me and in mid air stood Christ the Lord at the altar. He looked like the sacrad heart picture like some of us have of Him( I didn't know what this meant. But was drawn to His hands and the bloody nail holes bleeding, bleeding for me!!!! Then when I went to the rail, I was given the wine and it wasn't just wine. it was a nectar that I had not tasted ever before. I beleive it was the nectar of Christ blood.In other words, it was sweet, Christ is sweet, bueatiful, Saviour. I was puzzled by this for some time. Did some one say that christ dosen't appear to people ??? This is not the only time I have had Christ appear or feel his presence. It certainly wasn't satan. satan wants to torment anyone he can and this wasn't torment!! Amen.

 

[Celeste]

yes, And so I beleive in Christs real presence. Always have. but this sealed it for me. The holy communion is also strength. If Christ is not in it, where is the strength? Christ is in the Lords supper! One of his Sacraments! Praise Him for His sacraments.

 

[Lotar]

Awesome story!

Always good to have another Lutheran around.

 

[ej]

When I pray to God, there is no flesh before me, but I pray to the real God, not merely a symbol of Him. Same goes for the Eucharist.

Coincidentally, I'm involved with a Presbyterian church (in addition to Catholic) because they run some fantastic charity events and are local to me. I've discussed this issue at length with the Minister, and I don't see a difference between the view of the two churches. Perhaps thats just my interpretation though...

Apologies for hijacking

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I believe in RP without a doubt. Not just a spiritual presence either. I do not claim either trans or con because I will not claim to know how the RP happens. I just know from reading the scriptures that there is very real presence. I have no need to explain how it gets there, although I understand that some people do and do not fault them for it at all.

 

[ByzantineDixie]

I also believe in the Real Presence. I believe the Lord's Supper is God's gift to us...in the Sacrament HE WORKS. If the the Lord's Supper is merely symbolic then it becomes an act of man, not an act of God. We are priviliged to experience the real Christ in the bread and wine as we commune with the entire Body of Believers.

Wonderful, wonderful story, Celeste. That's how Jesus is when we take our concerns to him as we commune together. Welcome fellow Lutheran.

Peace

Rose

 

[JVAC]

What version is that?

It is the King James/NIV, sometimes I mix and match in my head, I wasn't looking at it when I wrote it (it was from memory), but it works, it didn't lose any meaning.

 

[Hands&Feet]

Coincidentally, I'm involved with a Presbyterian church (in addition to Catholic) because they run some fantastic charity events and are local to me. I've discussed this issue at length with the Minister, and I don't see a difference between the view of the two churches.

In God's eyes, there is no difference. He love's us regardless of how we interpret it. I love hearing confessions such as yours. That is sweet communion no matter how you look at it.

 

[JVAC]

Guidelines for the Celebration of Full Communion

Adopted by the Lutheran-Reformed Planning Committee
of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America,
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), Reformed Church in America,
and United Church of Christ



Episcopal Church is also in full communion (a bit diiferent than above)


All these churches are real pressence churches (also LCMS & WELS)