The Rapture

[newcreature777]

Love His Appearing! One who WATCHES, and Loves his appearing…

Dear Saints don’t let no one or anything keep you from WATCHING, and Loving the Appearing of KING JESUS CHRIST, THE BLESSED HOPE (RAPTURE) keep your special crown, and always WATCH, and Love his Appearing…

WATCHING…

Watching for our Blessed Hope, Jesus Christ to come Rapture us up into the New Jerusalem (Heaven) (Blessed) are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find (Watching) as shared in Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, and Revelation 16:15.

We are told many Times in the Bible to WATCH, and Notice Revelation 3:3 Shares those who are not Watching, He will come like a Thief. Now is the Time to Watch for King Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing. Infact if you Love his Appearing (Rapture) you will receive a special crown.


The crown of righteousness is shared in the Scripture 2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a (Crown) of righteousness) which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day (Rapture) and not to me only but (unto all them also that love his appearing)


It’s all as a Divine Miracle, and John walked out of Earth Time into Eternity…



After all Earth time is not real time for Eternity is far beyond (For ever, and ever) Eternity is beyond the bubbles (Layers) That ripple like chapters, and pages in the process of Earth time…


After some thought someone might say John Time Traveled, and what John did was step out of the Earth Time Dimension into Eternity where he walked with God. John basically watched the Rapture, and was shown things to come as ripples in time or as chapters in the Divine Process that is already written, as foretold in the Holy Bible.


John was Caught up Revelation 1:10

Notice: John was in Spirit in the kingdom of Almighty God, and was with Jesus Christ! It’s as he Watched the end from the beginning as Shared in Isaiah 46:10


Revelation 1:10
(I was in the Spirit) on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a (trumpet)


John was already caught up in the Spirit, and heard the (Trumpet) as he was called up (Taken up) into Heaven with Almighty God as shared in the Scripture Revelation 1:10


and After he looked (Watched) the experience in Revelation 4:1 After this I looked(a door was opened in heaven) Trumpet (Come up hither) The Rapture…


It’s as if John was already called up into Heaven as shared in Revelation 1:10 and he Watched the Rapture experience as shared in Revelation 4:1 when the Trump of God is Blown, and The Door is Open in Heaven, and John (bare record) wrote (shared) Revelation 1:1-2 all he saw when John returned to the point in time where his body was in Earth time.


The Open DOOR Rapture


Revelation 4:1
After this (I looked) and, behold, a (door) was (opened in heaven) and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a (trumpet) talking with me. which said(Come up hither) and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


Notice: The Door is open in Revelation 4:1, and Matthew 25:10 shares the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) came,and those who were Ready (Awake) (Wise) Lamps Lit, and filled with oil (Holy Ghost) went in with him to the Marriage, and (then the Door was shut) and those Left Behind after the Rapture experience the Wrath (Tribulation)


Just as those who were Left Behind after the (Door was shut) on Noahs Ark experienced the Wrath. Genesis 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.(The LORD shut the Door)


*To read more about The Bride of Christ. Visit RaptureProphecy.com, and read the webpages called (The Bride of Christ, and Rapture of his Bride) on RaptureProphecy.com

 

[zeke37]

see the other thread where you posted the same thing

the "rapture" happens after the Lord brings the dead in Christ from heaven and raises them here.

the harpazo, our gathering to Him, is after the dead in Christ are raised.

 

[Isaiah5417amen]

The God of Hope Fill You...

Romans 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.


(Hope) Translated from the Greek is as (Confident Expectation)

(Looking) for that (Blessed Hope)

Titus 2:13

(Looking) for that (Blessed Hope) and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

The English word (Hope) as translated from the Greek is "elpis" which means to possess a (Confident Expectation) Therefore, The Christian, Born Again (New Creature) Can usher a Refreshing (Confident Expectation) in the Blessed Hope, That the Lord Jesus Christ WILL Come Rescue (Rapture) US!


End Time Bible Prophecy, Rapture of His Bride...

Notice: 1 John 3:2 Shares We the sons of God, He shall appear, We shall see him as he is.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are (we the sons of God) and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when (he shall appear) we shall be like him, for (we shall see him as he is)

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(Watch ye) therefore,

The Bride of Christ

Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee (from, Greek, ek- out of) The (hour, Greek, hora- season) of (temptation, Greek, peirasmos- adversity or tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The prerequisite to receiving the promise in this scripture is to patiently keep His Word or put another way, to be a consistent doer of the Word, full of faith!

There are many wonderful benefits to being the Bride, but the one that is mentioned in the scripture Revelation 3:10 certainly will be a welcome blessing.

The word (From) in Greek is as "out of" (Greek word, ek) Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from.

Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from

cf.blb.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=1537&version=KJV

Saved Now, and From (out of) The Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and (keep you (from) evil. AMEN.

Psalm 121:7-8
The LORD shall preserve (thee (from) all) evil: he shall preserve thy soul. The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore. AMEN.

2 Timothy 4:18
And (the Lord shall deliver me (from) every) evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. AMEN.

King Jesus Christ promises to keep us "from" or as the Greek word reads, "out of" the season of tribulation that is about to come upon the whole world to try all those that are left behind to dwell upon the earth.


The word (From) in Greek is as "out of" (Greek word, ek) Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from. Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from



The Born Again (New Creatures) Saved Now, and shall be Translated (Raptured) Delivered from (out of) Before the Tribulation.


Colossians 1:12-15

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.

13Who hath delivered us (from) the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.

14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

as by Faith Enoch was translated (Raptured)

Hebrews 11:5-7

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death,

and was not found, because God had translated him, for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him, for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house, by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

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(Watch ye) therefore,

Worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass,

(escape)as Rapture

Luke 21:34-36
(And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares)

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

(36Watch ye) therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

(Escape) Genesis 19:22, Psalm 71:2 (The snare is broken, Escaped Psalm 124:7-8)

king Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Warned in this prophecy! Take heed to yourselves, lest at anytime your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting (overindulgence) and drunkenness, and the cares of this life, so that day come upon you unawares. (Watch ye) therefore, and (pray always) that you may be accounted worthy to (escape all) these things.

(Luke 21:34-36) Here, in praying always, it is the Christians that are instructed to be sober, and not to be overtaken with overindulgence, and the cares of this life, not just the unbeliever (1 Thessalonians 5:6-8) First, note that unbelievers do not believe.

Secondly, unbelievers do not pray,and Worship God! nor will they pray always, and Watch which is an explicit Christian directive for saved Christians to be Watching in preparation for King Jesus Christ! Lest That Day overtake them unawares.

We must continue to share, and teach the Powerful Gospel with anyone, and everyone at all Times...

One must remember to continually Preach the Powerful Gospel, and Pray for the Christian, Back sliders- The Lukewarm (Revelation 3:16) and the unbelievers need to Repent (Acts 3:19) Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Abide in Him (1 John 2:28-29) and Obey (Acts 5:32, Hebrews 5:9)

Also we must continue to share, and teach that the Christians need to be Wise, As shared in (Proverbs 21:20) and Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Watch for King Jesus Christ (Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, Revelation 3:3) and Abide (1 John 2:28-29)

One must walk with God at all Times... Abide, Dabaq (Hebrew)

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(Watching) for our Blessed Hope,

(Watching) for our Wonderful Blessed Hope, King Jesus Christ to Rapture us to the New Jerusalem (Heaven) (Blessed) are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find (Watching) as shared in Bible Prophecy. Read the Scriptures: Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, and Revelation 16:15 We are told many Times in the Bible to WATCH, and Notice Revelation 3:3 Shares (those who are not Watching, He will come like a Thief.

Now is the Time to Watch for King Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and Love His Appearing. Infact if you Love His Appearing (Rapture) you will receive a Special Crown! as Shared in 2 Timothy 4:8
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The righteous is delivered out of

1 Samuel 26:24
And, behold, as thy life was much set by this day in mine eyes, so let my life be much set by in the eyes of the LORD, and let him deliver me out of (all) tribulation.

Psalm 37:40
And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them (from) the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.


King Jesus Christ of Nazareth is LORD...

 

[Bible2]

newcreature777 said in post #1:

Love His Appearing!

Amen (2 Timothy 4:8b).

His appearing will happen immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30).

newcreature777 said in post #1:

THE BLESSED HOPE

The blessed hope (Titus 2:13) is the hope of eternal life: "In hope of eternal life" (Titus 1:2), "that blessed hope" (Titus 2:13), "the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:7), by which is meant the hope of obtaining an immortal, physical resurrection body (Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39) at the second coming of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; cf. Revelation 20:4-6). Also, Jesus himself is the hope of Christians (1 Timothy 1:1b), for he himself is eternal life (John 14:6), and only by believing in him can they have eternal life (John 3:36).

newcreature777 said in post #1:

WATCHING

During the coming tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18, all Christians will have to "watch" (stay awake, spiritually) for Jesus' second coming (Matthew 25:13), which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). For if a Christian isn't "watching" (staying awake, spiritually) for Jesus' second coming, it will take that Christian by surprise (cf. Revelation 3:3) and that Christian will lose his or her salvation at that time because of such things as unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, 2 Timothy 2:12b).

newcreature777 said in post #1:

Jesus Christ to come Rapture us up into the New Jerusalem (Heaven)

Note that no scripture says that believers will be raptured any higher than the clouds of the sky (the first heaven), to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). After that meeting, in which the church will be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27) and married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7), the church will come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:15) and then reign on the earth with him for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Then, after the 1,000 years and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), the church will live on the new earth with God the Father and Jesus in the city of New Jerusalem (Revelation chapters 21-22).

newcreature777 said in post #1:

Revelation 16:15

Revelation 16:15 is spoken during the sixth vial (Revelation 16:12), near the end of the coming tribulation. In Revelation 16:15, Jesus will be encouraging those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for his second coming as a thief, to hang on just a little longer until his second coming in Revelation 19:7-20:3, right after the destruction of the symbolic harlot "Babylon" at the seventh vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-20:3).

newcreature777 said in post #1:

Revelation 1:10

Revelation 1:10 means that John was in the Spirit on the first day of the week. For after the Lord rose from the dead on the first day of the week (Mark 16:9), the early church referred to the first day of the week as the Lord's day: "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him" (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, chapter 9. Ignatius was a contemporary of John).

Revelation 1:10b simply means that John heard a literal voice behind him which sounded only "like" a trumpet. And the next verse shows that that voice was of Jesus himself, telling John to write down what he would see and send it to seven literal, first-century local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11).

 

[Bible2]

newcreature777 said in post #1:

Revelation 4:1

Revelation 4:1 refers only to the apostle John, by himself, making an only-temporary visit up to the third heaven at one point during his lifetime back in the first century; just as 2 Corinthians 12:2 refers only to the apostle Paul, by himself, making an only-temporary visit up to the third heaven at one point during his lifetime back in the first century. Neither Revelation 4:1 nor Corinthians 12:2 is referring to the future rapture of the entire church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

Revelation 4:1's "After this" simply means after John had been instructed in Revelation chapters 2-3 what to write to seven literal first-century local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b).

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No significance should be read into the fact that the specific word "church" is mentioned many times in Revelation chapters 1-3, but not mentioned again until Revelation 22, just as no significance should be read into the fact that the specific word "church" is mentioned many times in Romans 16, but not mentioned in Romans chapters 1-15.

The reason the word "church" is mentioned many times in Revelation chapters 1-3 is because those chapters are referring to seven literal first-century local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b).

The church (in the general sense) will definitely be in the tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18, because believers will definitely be in the tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18 (e.g. Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4), and there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

Also, just as the mistaken pre-tribulation rapture view admits that Revelation 19 includes references to the church without using the specific word "church", so it should admit that Revelation chapters 6-18 can include references to the church without using the specific word "church".

newcreature777 said in post #1:

Matthew 25:10

Matthew 25:10's bridal chamber will be in the clouds of the sky at the second coming of Jesus (Revelation 19:7, 1 Thessalonians 4:17), immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18 (Matthew 24:29-31).

-

The parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25:1-13) shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his second coming (Matthew 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until immediately after the coming tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). Revelation 19:7 likewise shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until after the tribulation (shown in Revelation chapters 6-18).

In the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25:1-13), the extra oil (Matthew 25:4) could represent the continued good works of believers, by which they will be able to pass the judgment of the church (Matthew 25:19-30, Romans 2:6-8) and enter into the marriage of the church at the second coming of Jesus (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7-21). So the parable of the ten virgins applies to how believers are to prepare themselves spiritually for the second coming (Matthew 25:10).

But that preparation will also be valuable during the coming tribulation (which will precede the second coming: Matthew 24:29-30), for it's only by obeying Jesus now, in these days and during the tribulation, that believers' spiritual houses will be on the rock (Matthew 7:24-25), so that during the storm of the tribulation they won't fall away (commit apostasy) (Matthew 7:26-27, 2 Thessalonians 2:3) due to their awful suffering during the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Isaiah 8:21-22, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, 1 Peter 4:12-13).

newcreature777 said in post #1:

Ready (Awake) (Wise) Lamps Lit, and filled with oil (Holy Ghost)

Regarding getting filled with the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit), in the sense of getting baptized in the Holy Spirit, that's indeed something all believers should seek.

For besides getting water baptized, believers also need to get Holy Spirit baptized (Acts 11:15-16, cf. Acts 10:44-46). They usually have to ask to receive the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13b) baptism, because it isn't usually automatically given to them the moment they become believers; that's why Paul the apostle asked some believers: "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" (Acts 19:2).

Believers usually receive the Holy Spirit baptism through prayer accompanied by the laying on of hands, subsequent to water baptism (Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). Holy Spirit baptism won't result in speaking in tongues for everyone (1 Corinthians 12:30), but for almost everyone, as speaking in tongues is one of the lesser gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:8-11, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 1 Corinthians 14:5).

Many believers haven't yet experienced the Holy Spirit baptism simply because they haven't yet asked for it, under the principle of "ye have not, because ye ask not" (James 4:2b). Many believers haven't yet asked for it because they've come under the influence of mistaken teachings which say that it's no longer in effect. Believers can get hands laid on them to receive the Holy Spirit baptism at, for example, a Pentecostal or charismatic-type congregation.

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The gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:8-10), which operate in believers who have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:6, Acts 11:15-16 & Acts 10:44-46), won't cease operating until Jesus' second coming. For 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 means that just as only when children become adults do they put away childish things, so only when believers will become perfect when they see Jesus face to face at his second coming (1 John 3:2) will they no longer need the Spiritual gifts of prophecy, tongues, and the word of knowledge (1 Corinthians 12:8,10). During the coming tribulation (which will precede the second coming: Matthew 24:29-31), are some in the church going to reject the ministry of the two witnesses simply because it will involve the two witnesses prophesying and performing miracles (Revelation 11:3,6)?

Because the second coming (like the tribulation) hasn't happened yet, all the gifts of the Spirit are still operating in the church today (within Pentecostal and charismatic-type congregations, which can be found within different denominations). God's Word commands believers to operate in the Spiritual gifts when believers come together (1 Corinthians 14:26-31). So congregations today must be careful never to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), such as by despising prophesyings (1 Thessalonians 5:20) or forbidding all speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:39b).

Tongues are one of the Spiritual gifts which the Holy Spirit miraculously gives to believers (1 Corinthians 12:8-10) through which believers can be regularly edified (1 Corinthians 14:4-5,12,26). Not all Holy Spirit-baptized believers will speak in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30), but almost all will (cf. Acts 19:6, Acts 10:45-46), for tongues are one of the lesser gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:28, 1 Corinthians 14:5).

Different believers receive different kinds of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:10). Some tongues are languages which can be understood by humans (Acts 2:4,8) while other tongues are languages which can't be understood by humans (1 Corinthians 14:2), not even the speakers (1 Corinthians 14:14). Unintelligible tongues could include ancient human languages which are unknown to history, ancient human languages which are known to history but aren't understood, and angelic languages (1 Corinthians 13:1).

Unintelligible tongues aren't useless, however, because when they're prayed or sung privately to God without interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:2,28) they edify the spirits of those who speak or sing them (1 Corinthians 14:4,14-15, Jude 1:20), to bless God and thank God (1 Corinthians 14:16). And when unintelligible tongues are prayed or sung out loud in a congregation, and then Spiritually interpreted (1 Corinthians 12:10b-11), their interpretation edifies the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:5b,12-13,26). When Christians sing in tongues to God they are singing the "spiritual songs" which Paul distinguishes from psalms and hymns (Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16).

Paul sets no restrictions on how much believers can pray and sing to God in tongues out loud at home, or silently in church (1 Corinthians 14:28) (just as regular praying can be done silently: e.g. 1 Samuel 1:13a,17). Indeed, Paul prayed and sung to God in tongues in private more than anyone (1 Corinthians 14:18-19). But with regard to church meetings, Paul sets very strict rules on speaking tongues out loud: they must never be spoken out loud in church meetings unless there's someone present who can Spiritually interpret them to the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:28).

And even when a tongues-interpreter is present in a church meeting, at the most only three people should in turn speak out loud in unknown tongues, which should then be interpreted to the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:27). Everyone who has received the gift of tongues should be praying for the separate gift of the interpretation of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:10b), so that he or she can edify others (1 Corinthians 14:12-13).

 

[Bible2]

newcreature777 said in post #1:

Left Behind after the Rapture

Are you thinking of Luke 17:26-37 and Matthew 24:37-41?

If so, the Noah and Lot analogies in Luke 17:26-37 and Matthew 24:37-41 aren't referring to a pre-trib rapture, but to what will happen at the second coming of Jesus, "when the Son of man is revealed" (Luke 17:30), "the coming of the Son of man" (Matthew 24:37b,39b), which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30), when Jesus will bring the second-coming day of wrath/day of the Lord (Zephaniah 1:14-15, 1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10) upon the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21).

Those "taken" at the second coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will be people who will be taken where they will be killed and birds will eat their dead bodies (Luke 17:36-37; Matthew 24:28, cf. Job 39:30b; Revelation 19:21). The Greek word "paralambano" ("taken": Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) can be used to refer to being taken to another place to be killed (e.g. John 19:16-18).

Those "left" where they are at the second coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will include unsaved people who will be forced to come up annually to worship Jesus in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). These unsaved people will have to be ruled with a rod of iron by Jesus and the church during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 72:8-11). And their descendants will be deceived by the devil after the millennium is over into committing the Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

Before the millennium, at the second coming, saved people will neither be "taken" and killed, nor "left" where they are, but will be "gathered together" (raptured) (Matthew 24:31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17), the purpose of which rapture meeting is so that saved people can be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27) and married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7), before he brings his second-coming wrath upon the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21, Luke 17:26-30, Matthew 24:37-39).

newcreature777 said in post #1:

Wrath (Tribulation)

Note that nothing requires that the entire tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18 will be God's wrath, or that any part of the tribulation that will be God's wrath will be directed against any of the saved people (1 Thessalonians 5:9) who will be alive on the earth during the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4). Most of the tribulation could be the wrath of Satan working through evil men and natural forces to bring disaster upon the earth, just like when Satan was allowed to work through evil men and natural forces to bring disaster upon righteous Job (Job 1:12-20), against whom God had no wrath.

The first five seals of the tribulation (Revelation 6:1-11) won't be God's wrath or judgment, because after the first four seals are over the martyrs of the fifth seal ask God when he's going to bring his judgment against the world (Revelation 6:10). And the killing of even more martyrs, which the fifth seal foretells will happen sometime after the fifth seal (Revelation 6:11b), won't be God's wrath against those martyrs. So Jesus unsealing the seals of the tribulation (Revelation 6) doesn't mean that the events that are unsealed will be God's wrath; it simply means that every event that's unsealed will be permitted by God to happen at that time.

The sixth seal of the tribulation (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, cf. Revelation 6:12b), whereas the day of the Lord/day of wrath (Zephaniah 1:14-15) won't begin until the second coming of Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19 (see Revelation 19:15b), immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18 (Matthew 24:29-30).

So the people quoted at the sixth seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the sixth seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. Just as the writer of the book of Job didn't go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11, and just as the apostles John and Matthew didn't go out of their ways to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a, so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quotes in Revelation 6:17.

After the sixth seal of the tribulation will occur the seventh seal of the tribulation (Revelation 8:1). And out of the seventh seal of the tribulation will come the seven trumpets of the tribulation (Revelation 8:1-2). None of the events of the first six trumpets from Revelation 8 up to the end of Revelation 9 are referred to by John as being God's wrath. Also, it doesn't say that any of those events will be directed only at the unsaved; all those events could affect mankind in general, both the saved and the unsaved.

The events of the fifth trumpet will be the work of a swarm of weird locust-like beings from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-10) led by a fallen angel from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11). And the events of the sixth trumpet will be the work of a huge army of weird horse-like beings led by four fallen angels previously bound in the river Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19). So even though good angels of God will sound the six trumpets of Revelation chapters 8-9, this could simply be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy one-third of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause one-third of the angels to be cast down to the earth for good (Revelation 12:4,9).

God allows saved people to be affected by the wrath of Satan (Revelation 12:17, Revelation 2:10), knowing that even if they're killed by Satan, this is no loss for them, but even gain (Philippians 1:21,23, 2 Corinthians 5:8).

The events of the first six trumpets from Revelation 8 up to the end of Revelation 9 will all happen before the start of the 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian (Satanic) reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-18). And the events of Revelation chapters 8-9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the world to welcome that reign. For what Satan could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then he could claim that the destruction isn't from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make mankind suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind. In this way, Satan could deceive the world into turning away from YHWH and instead worshipping him (the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

After the 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the seven plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly temple opening of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5-16:1). The seven vials of God's wrath will then be poured out upon the followers of the Antichrist as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of people in the church (Revelation 16:6-7) during the prior 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5,7,10, Revelation 14:12-13).

During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation on the earth just for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22) and that Christ himself isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). People in the church will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4, 2 Timothy 4:2-4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). People in the church will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15b, Revelation 20:4).

And all of this, of course, will be the wrath of Satan against the church (Revelation 12:17), not the wrath of God against the church. For the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Even when God's wrath does come subsequently in the seven vials (Revelation 16), the final stage of the tribulation, because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath none of the vials of God's wrath will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth during that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7).

Only after the seventh vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2) will Jesus Christ return and bring the second-coming day of wrath/day of the Lord (Zephaniah 1:14-15, 1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10) upon the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21). And before that wrath begins, again because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30) and then marry the obedient portion of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, cf. Matthew 25:1-13) in the clouds, before the obedient portion of the church mounts white horses and comes back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he brings the second-coming wrath of God upon the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21).

After that, Jesus and the obedient portion of the just-resurrected church (including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist) will be on the earth ruling the surviving unsaved nations with a rod of iron for 1,000 years (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2). During that time, Jesus will have to employ his wrath against the surviving unsaved nations in order to bring them into forced submission to him (Zechariah 14:16-19, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2).

After the 1,000 years are over, the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-9, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), but it will be defeated by God's wrath against it (Ezekiel 38:19-23, Revelation 20:9b). After the defeat of the Gog/Magog rebellion, the earth will remain in existence for at least seven more years (Ezekiel 39:9b). After those at least seven more years are over, the white throne judgment will occur, in which all the unsaved of all times will be resurrected and judged and cast into God's eternal wrath of the lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:11-15, Revelation 14:10-11, Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

 

[Bible2]

Isaiah5417amen said in post #3:

Revelation 3:10

The seven epistles to seven churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to seven literal first-century local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b); just as Paul wrote epistles to seven different literal first-century local church congregations in seven places in the Roman Empire: Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colosse, and Thessalonica.

Revelation 3:10 meant that the literal first-century local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b) would be kept safe from a persecution which would come upon all the Roman world during the time of the Roman Emperor Domitian. For John saw his Revelation vision near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), and according to many historians, Domitian heavily persecuted the church toward the end of his reign (Persecution of Christians Under Domitian). The literal first-century local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b) had to suffer and die in that persecution over a period of ten days (Revelation 2:10).

The first-century church in Philadelphia didn't have to be taken out of the world to be kept safe from that persecution, for, as Jesus prayed: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil" (John 17:15,20). Also, the first-century church in Philadelphia didn't have to be removed from time itself (or from the earth) in order to be kept from the "hour" (or the "time") of that persecution, just as, for example, a student in a classroom who has been excused from taking a test doesn't have to be removed from time itself (or from the classroom) in order to be excused from that time of testing. For he can still be made to sit at his desk reading during that time, which won't be a time of testing for him.

Also, the first-century persecution of Revelation 3:10 (and Revelation 2:10) was only "world"-wide in the sense of the Roman "world" (Luke 2:1). So the subsequent reference to those on the "earth" in Revelation 3:10 should be understood as those Christians living on the earth during that time in the Roman Empire, as opposed to those Christians who had already died and gone to heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23).

Isaiah5417amen said in post #3:

2 Thessalonians 3:3

All obedient believers will be spiritually protected during the coming tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18, no matter what happens to them physically (Romans 8:35-37). And some in the church will also be physically protected during some or all of that time, while others in the church won't be physically protected during that time.

The 144,000 male-virgins part of the church (Revelation 14:4), along with some others in the church, will be physically protected so that they will survive the first stage (Revelation 6) of the coming tribulation, while many others in the church won't be physically protected, so that they will die during that first stage, and their souls will enter into heaven (Revelation 7:9,14).

After the first stage is over, the 144,000 part of the church will be sealed (Revelation 7:3-4) for physical protection (Revelation 9:4) before the seventh seal of the tribulation is unsealed (Revelation 8:1). Out of the seventh seal will come the seven trumpets of the tribulation (Revelation 8:1-2). The events of the first six trumpets up to Revelation 9:19 will be the second stage of the tribulation. The seal that the 144,000 will receive (which will be different from and in addition to the seal of the Holy Spirit himself which they and all other believers receive: Ephesians 1:13b) will physically protect them during this second stage (Revelation 9:4). Everyone else in the church still alive on the earth at that time won't necessarily be physically protected, but at least some will be.

This physical protection of some in the church but not others in the church during the coming tribulation will be similar to how the first-century local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) was physically protected during one specific first-century tribulation (Revelation 3:10) while the first-century local church congregation in the city of Smyrna in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) wasn't physically protected during that one specific first-century tribulation (Revelation 2:10).

After the second stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18 is over, the 144,000 male virgins part of the church will be caught up as the "man child" to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 12:5; Revelation 14:4-5, TR), right before the third stage of the tribulation, the 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), begins (Revelation 12:5-6, Revelation 13:5-8). This 3.5-year time period is shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11-14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:9-13).

The 144,000 male-virgins part of the church (Revelation 14:1,4) will remain up in heaven before God's throne (Revelation 14:5, TR) during the 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 13:5-10) while two other parts of the church will still be on the earth: the figurative "woman" who represents all those in the church who will flee into wilderness places and be physically protected (Revelation 12:6,14), and the remnant of the woman's seed (Revelation 12:17) who will be all those in the church who will remain in the cities and not be physically protected, but will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

After the 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist is declared legally over at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the seven plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly temple opening of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5-16:1). These seven vials will be the fourth and final stage (Revelation 16) of the tribulation. Because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of the vials of God's wrath will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth during that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7).

So some in the church will survive the entire future tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18 while remaining on the earth. They are those who will be alive on the earth at the second coming of Jesus to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). These survivors will have experienced God's miraculous physical protection (cf. Psalms 91) throughout the entire tribulation, without having to have been part of the 144,000.

 

[Bible2]

Isaiah5417amen said in post #3:

Luke 21:34-36

Luke 21:36 doesn't require a pre-trib rapture, because some in the church will escape all of the tribulation by dying before it starts (cf. Isaiah 57:1), and others in the church will escape all of the tribulation by being physically protected on the earth during it (e.g. Revelation 12:14-16, cf. Psalms 91).

-

Those who will escape all of the tribulation (Luke 21:36a) by dying before it starts (cf. Isaiah 57:1) will stand before the Lord (Luke 21:36b) in heaven (cf. Philippians 1:21,23, 2 Corinthians 5:8). And those who will escape all of the tribulation by being miraculously protected on the earth during it (e.g. Revelation 12:14-16, cf. Psalms 91) will stand before the Lord in the sky at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17), which won't happen until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7).

Isaiah5417amen said in post #3:

He will come like a Thief.

Some people who hold to the (mistaken) pre-tribulation-rapture view claim that 1 Thessalonians 5:2b supports the (mistaken) idea of a pre-trib, secret coming of Jesus to rapture the church and begin the tribulation. But not all thieves in the night come secretly, like cat burglars; some like to rob homes via what's called a "home invasion", which is quite obvious, and which can involve the thieves not only stealing, but also killing and destroying (cf. John 10:10, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10, Revelation 19:7-21).

The scriptures themselves make clear that Jesus' coming as a thief in the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2, Matthew 24:43-44, Revelation 16:15) doesn't mean that he will come quietly or secretly: "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God" (1 Thessalonians 4:16), "with a great sound of a trumpet" (Matthew 24:31). And "as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matthew 24:27, cf. Matthew 24:43-44). "Behold, I come as a thief" (Revelation 16:15); "Behold, he cometh with clouds [cf. 1 Thessalonians 4:17]; and every eye shall see him" (Revelation 1:7).

Instead, Jesus' coming as a thief in the night means that he will come even upon Christians when they aren't expecting him if they stop watching (staying awake, spiritually). Compare: "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Revelation 3:3b). Also, some in the church will still be alive on the earth during the final stage of the tribulation, still waiting for (still expecting) Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). So his coming won't overtake them like a thief (1 Thessalonians 5:4, Matthew 24:43).

With regard to Jesus coming as a thief to the unsaved world, when it isn't expecting him (1 Thessalonians 5:3, Matthew 24:39), nothing requires that the unsaved world will be expecting Jesus' second coming after the tribulation. For during the tribulation the unsaved world could come to believe that Jesus has already returned and is already on the earth (cf. Matthew 24:24-26).

The beast which comes up out of the earth (Revelation 13:11-16) represents the man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could currently be a (secretly apostate) cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church, preparing himself to become the next pope. If he becomes the next pope, he could begin his tenure by making a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "A Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the terrible reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, the next pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11).

This would be similar to how the seven horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding seven positions of power at the same time (cf. Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12).

The False Prophet's appearing figuratively "like a lamb" (Revelation 13:11) could mean that he will present himself to the world as being a Christian, for Jesus refers to Christians as being figurative "lambs" (John 21:15b, Luke 10:3). Also, Jesus warns Christians against false prophets who falsely present themselves as being "sheep" (Matthew 7:15), meaning falsely present themselves as being Christians, for Christians are figurative "sheep" (Matthew 10:16).

Or the False Prophet could even present himself to the world as being Jesus himself, for Jesus appears figuratively as a lamb in Revelation 5:6. Jesus is also referred to as a figurative lamb 27 other times in the book of Revelation: in Revelation 5:8, Revelation 5:12, Revelation 5:13, Revelation 6:1, Revelation 6:16, Revelation 7:9, Revelation 7:10, Revelation 7:14, Revelation 7:17, Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:8, Revelation 14:1, Revelation 14:4 [two times], Revelation 14:10, Revelation 15:3, Revelation 17:14 [two times], Revelation 19:7, Revelation 19:9, Revelation 21:9, Revelation 21:14, Revelation 21:22, Revelation 21:23, Revelation 21:27, Revelation 22:1, and Revelation 22:3. Jesus is also referred to as a figurative lamb four other times in the New Testament: in John 1:29, John 1:36, Acts 8:32, and 1 Peter 1:19.

(Continued in next post)

 

[Bible2]

(Continued from prior post)

During the Antichrist's 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7), even though the world will worship both Lucifer/Satan (the dragon: Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast: Revelation 13:3b-4,8), this won't require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil or turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, Jesus himself isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny a second coming of Jesus. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of the second coming of Jesus, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God ( Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ). For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus, returned to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God, and he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). (This is why it's so important to know when and how the real Jesus' second coming will happen: Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7-20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21.)

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-17, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore" to the world "the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society.

The False Prophet could miraculously call fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) are the true God (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be a counterfeit of how the true prophet Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person that the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who ordered people to commit genocide and kill babies (e.g. 1 Samuel 15:3), while Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)".

The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy (Isaiah 53, cf. 1 Peter 2:24), and rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy (Psalms 16:10, cf. Acts 2:31). He died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28) which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14) which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament from the very beginning in the book of Genesis (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). Satan could be worshipped not as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could lie and say that it's YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22) and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer instead (Revelation 13:4), they could say that (the non-flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer (the devil) is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

The truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18); Jesus the Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus the Christ identified himself only with the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus the Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus the Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have the knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4).

Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine Son of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians now rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as God (the Son) along with God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the coming tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer (the dragon), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13), and these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the armies of the world to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14). After gathering together at Armageddon, all the armies will then travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20-20:3).

So the second coming of Jesus Christ will be a total shock to the unsaved people of the world. They will have been expecting to wage war against an Old Testament god named YHWH with the help of the good Jesus (played by the False Prophet) and with the help of the true and beneficent Christ/God (played by Lucifer) and with the help of the good Son of God (played by the Antichrist) and with the help of the good angels of God (played by the fallen angels of Lucifer: Revelation 12:9b). But then instead of some evil god appearing in the sky, the world could see the glorious sign of the Cross (cf. Matthew 24:30), the symbol of the good YHWH dying for our sins (Acts 20:28b). And then the world will see the glorious appearance of the real Jesus (Matthew 24:30b, Revelation 1:7), sitting on a white horse descending from the sky (Revelation 19:11).

"Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Revelation 22:20). "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come" (Revelation 22:17).

When the unsaved people of the world realize, the moment they see the real Jesus returning, how thoroughly they have been duped (by the devil, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet), and when they see in the sky all the holy, mighty angels (Matthew 25:31, 2 Thessalonians 1:7) of the true Christ, the true Son of God, and the good YHWH, who are all the one and the same Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the unsaved people of the world could utterly mourn and wail for themselves (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7), knowing in their spirits that Jesus has returned in wrath to destroy most of them for their unrepentant sins (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, Revelation 19:15).

 

[muzza21]

as by Faith Enoch was translated (Raptured)

No one has ascended to heaven except who came down from heaven

john 3:13

 

[newcreature777]

The Rapture will be a Miracle! Every Nano Second until the Rapture is ushered forth in our Atmosphere, and after the Rapture is ushered, you will see more, and more of what is written in Bible Prophecy come true, as foretold in the Holy Bible...

You have now entered the Season in Time known as the Last Days, as The Days of Noah, and the Rapture is the Next BIG event on the Prophecy Calendar. Are you Rapture Ready? I am.

The Rapture Miracle is an event that will not be hidden. The concept of the Rapture has already been made known to the masses, and Almighty God has made sure of this!

The Rapture is often treated with ridicule, and mockery by people in the world, and in the media, but Almighty God makes sure that the Rapture is highly publicized before it happens, and after the Rapture happens...

Many of those unfortunate people left behind will finally come to their senses, and wake-up, and remember the true Gospel us born again (New Creatures) Christians continually Preached...

The Rapture Miracle will happen all over the World, In a moment, In the Twinkling of an Eye, and it's possible people left behind will hear about someone who was Raptured...

The waves of change that usher on the World, after the Miraculous Rapture will be a Time of Great Tribulation. Don't Be Left Behind...


But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. One shall be taken, and the other left Matthew 24:37-41, Luke 17:26-30 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot, But (the same day that Lot went out of) (Then) it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all, Also shared in Genesis 19:24

Those Left Behind experienced the (Tribulation)Wrath...

Almighty God rescued the Righteous (Noah, and his family! Lot, and his family) prior to his Judgment (Wrath) on those Left Behind.

One shall be taken (Rapture) and the other Left Behind Luke 17:35-36

Luke 17:35-36
Two women shall be grinding together (Working) the one shall be taken (Rapture) and the other left. (Left Behind- Tribulation)

36Two men shall be in the field (World) the one shall be taken (Rapture) and the other left. (Left Behind- Tribulation)

Those in the Ark were Taken- Taken up, as we are Taken- Taken up- Rapture, as the Lord was Taken- Taken up, Deuteronomy 4:20, Acts 1:2, Acts 1:9, Acts 1:11

Reading the Holy Bible king james version (KJV) The book of Luke- The proper word is (eagles) not vultures) be gathered together Luke 17:37 Also read the Scriptures: Exodus 19:4, and Isaiah 40:31

Exodus 19:4
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on (eagles) wings) and brought you unto myself)

Isaiah 40:31
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with (wings as (eagles) they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Taken- Forth out of

Deuteronomy 4:20
But the LORD hath (taken) you, and brought you (forth out of) the iron furnace, even (out of) Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.

As the Lord was Taken- Taken up- Raptured

Acts 1:2
Until the day in which he was (taken up) after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:9
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was (taken up) and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is (taken up) from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 1:22
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was (taken up) from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Just as us Saved, and Sealed Born Again (New Creatures 2 Corinthians 5:17)Rapture (lifteth up) before the Tribulation (Wrath)

Llifteth up the meek: as Now, and when we Rapture…

He casteth the wicked down to the ground) as the Meek, are (lifteth up (Rapture)

Psalm 147:6
The LORD (lifteth up the meek) he casteth the wicked down to the ground.

One taken (Rapture) the other (Left Behind in Tribulation)

Don’t Be Left Behind…

RaptureProphecy.com

 

[Bible2]

muzza21 said in post #10:

john 3:13

John 3:13 means that no man but Jesus Christ had ascended into heaven in a way that involved his own power. For Elijah had ascended into heaven, but by an external power (2 Kings 2:11). And if Elijah had ascended into heaven by an external power, then nothing forbids that Enoch and Moses had also ascended into heaven by an external power (Hebrews 11:5, Genesis 5:24, Jude 1:9).

 

[Bible2]

newcreature777 said in post #11:

You have now entered the Season in Time known as the Last Days

The last "days" began in the first century with Jesus Christ's first coming (Hebrews 1:2) and the Holy Spirit's coming at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:16-17). The last "days" are roughly the last three thousand-year "days" (cf. 2 Peter 3:8) of the roughly seven thousand-year "days" from the creation of Adam in roughly 4,000 BC to the future end of the present earth and creation of the new earth (Revelation 21:1) in roughly 3,000 AD. So the last "days" are the roughly 3,000 years from Jesus' first coming to the end of the coming millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), which will be the last thousand-year "day".

newcreature777 said in post #11:

...the Rapture is the Next BIG event on the Prophecy Calendar

Actually, nothing in the Bible teaches or requires a pre-trib rapture. Instead, the Bible makes clear that the rapture will be immediately after the tribulation. For Matthew 24:30-31 is referring to the same second coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which is referring to the same second coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. Matthew 24:29 shows that these things won't occur until immediately after the future tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18. That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' second coming and the resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7-20:6; cf. 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church and the Antichrist sits in a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and declares himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15-31, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place of a third Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus' return, his second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30, Mark 13:26), the church will be resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30) and then marry the obedient portion of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, cf. Matthew 25:1-12) in the clouds, before the obedient portion of the church mounts white horses and comes back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and all the unsaved armies of the world (Revelation 19:15-21).

Jesus will then make the wedding supper of Revelation 19:9 for the just-resurrected and married obedient portion of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9, 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient portion of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

Holding too strongly to the mistaken idea of a pre-tribulation rapture (just as holding too strongly to the mistaken idea of partial preterism or full preterism or historicism) could leave some believers less prepared mentally to go through the coming tribulation.

The Bible gives us clear warning ahead of time about everything that we're going to have to face during the coming tribulation (Mark 13:23, Revelation 1:3, Revelation 22:16) of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18, so that we can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (cf. 1 Peter 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that's coming (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Mark 13:5-6,21-23, Luke 21:8, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), and so that we can be better prepared mentally to endure the coming tribulation with patience and faith unto the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13), and not get so mad at God over our and our loved ones' awful suffering during the coming tribulation (cf. Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21) that we wrongly employ our free will to depart from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Timothy 4:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Luke 8:13, Matthew 24:9-13), to the ultimate loss of our salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, 2 Timothy 2:12, Mark 8:35-38, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Hebrews 10:38-39).

 

[Bible2]

newcreature777 said in post #11:

...the Rapture is the Next BIG event on the Prophecy Calendar

Actually, because the rapture will be post-trib (Matthew 24:29-31), all the tribulation events will precede the rapture.

The coming tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18 will begin with a horrible war, which, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up killing a fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons.

After that, there will be a terrible series of natural disasters historically unprecedented in their magnitude, such as a gigantic volcanic eruption (Revelation 6:12-14), possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera, and then the collapse into the ocean of another volcano (Revelation 8:8-9), possibly one of the Canary Islands, the collapse of which could set up a huge tsunami which could destroy the Eastern seaboard of the U.S. If such a tsunami occurs, it could cause a string of awful, Fukushima-style nuclear-meltdown radiation disasters in the nuclear power plants and their nuclear-waste storage facilities along the Eastern seaboard of the U.S. Also, if the tsunami breaks open the germ-containment structures on Plum Island, just off the coast of Connecticut, especially-deadly viruses and bacteria could be washed inland and spread across the U.S. as they infect animals and people.

After the volcanic activity and possible tsunami, a comet will strike the earth (Revelation 8:10-11), possibly in the U.S./Canadian Great Lakes region. As the comet falls from the sky it will look like a great star, or like a burning lamp in the sky (Revelation 8:10). It will strike a region of the earth which contains a third of the world's fresh surface water (Revelation 8:10b), and it will contain some poisonous element which will poison that third of the world's fresh surface water so that many who drink from it will die (Revelation 8:11b).

After that will come a one-two punch of what the world could initially try to interpret as being two different alien invasions, the first "aliens" being weird locust-like beings which will suddenly swarm up from the bottomless pit of the earth to torment mankind with excruciating stings for five months (Revelation 9:2-10). They will be led by a fallen angel named Abaddon (Revelation 9:11). The world could see the weird locust-like beings coming up from the ground as aliens who had been hibernating for thousands of years in a cavern deep within the earth's crust. The locust-like beings won't kill anyone, but they will make those they sting want to die the pain will be so bad (Revelation 9:5-6).

After the locust-like beings have stung mankind for five months, an army of 200,000,000 weird horse-like beings will come upon the earth and kill a third of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19). This army will be led by four powerful fallen angels who will be released from being bound at the Euphrates river (Revelation 9:14-15). If the army of horse-like beings descends from the sky in spaceships, the world could at first see them as a different race of aliens, but the Antichrist could (falsely) say that they're the main army of YHWH. In fact, the army could be loyal to Lucifer/Satan instead. The four fallen angels could employ the army to make mankind completely desperate before its complete takeover by Lucifer (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9-13:18).

When the army of 200,000,000 weird horse-like beings starts killing a third of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin the biggest deception ever wrought upon mankind (besides the original one in Eden: Genesis 3). For the Antichrist, who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the President of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco, could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

It's at this point that Lucifer (Satan) and his angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth for good after losing a war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in beautiful, gleaming spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars" (Mars being the same as Marduk, the chief god of ancient Babylon), the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And Lucifer, a literal, seven-headed dragon (Revelation 12:3,9) could emerge in great splendor and command his legions of angels to destroy the army of 200,000,000 weird horse-like beings.

Lucifer could then confirm that he has come to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, who he could say is his only-begotten "Son", was able to send out a mental distress call to his "Father" Lucifer in heaven to come to the rescue with his legions of angels (like an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53: "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?"). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the unsaved world as the saviors of mankind. And the unsaved world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even the main army of YHWH.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the miracle-working False Prophet of the Antichrist, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), and a speaking image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a mark of the Antichrist on their right hand or forehead, consisting of the Antichrist's name or the gematrial number of his name (Revelation 13:16-18).

During his worldwide reign, the Antichrist will turn the world against YHWH, speaking terrible things against him (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). The Antichrist could lie and say that it was YHWH who sent against mankind not only the army of 200,000,000 weird horse-like beings, but all the preceding, natural disasters of the tribulation (Revelation 6:12-14, Revelation 8:7-12), when in fact it could be Lucifer and his fallen angels who did all of that from behind the scenes, so that they could subsequently arrive on the world stage as if they were the good guys come to rescue mankind from YHWH.

They could promise mankind that they will help mankind to defeat YHWH and to escape (what they could call) "YHWH's vile prison house of this material universe, and return to the heavenly, spiritual realm of bliss, the Pleroma, where mankind existed in pure-spirit form from all eternity, before by some mishap mankind fell into YHWH's trap and became enmeshed in the material realm". This lie is what Gnosticism teaches. The Antichrist will be a Gnostic, for he will revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) and deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3). The Antichrist will at the same time also be a Luciferian, for he will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4). The Antichrist could present him to the world as (in his words) "Our Lord Lucifer, the Savior of mankind. He will free us from YHWH's tyranny and lead us back into the Pleroma to live in bliss forever".

After Lucifer and the Antichrist have completely deceived the world and ruled it ruthlessly for 3.5 years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send his vials of wrath against the unsaved world (Revelation 16). Those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at the time of the vials, still waiting for Jesus' second coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15), will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7).

Near the end of the vials of wrath, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer (the dragon), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13), and these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the armies of the world to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will then travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:21-20:6).

Jesus could return 1,335 days after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place of a third Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Matthew 24:15). The 75 days between the end of the 1,260 days of the worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6) and the return of Jesus (Revelation 19:7-21) could be taken up by the seven vials of God's wrath which will be poured out on the Antichrist and his followers (Revelation 16).

When Jesus returns, immediately after the coming tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30) of Revelation chapters 6-18, he will descend bodily from heaven on a white horse (1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 19:7-21, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) with all the holy angels (Matthew 25:31, 2 Thessalonians 1:7) for all the world to see (Matthew 24:27,30, Revelation 1:7). Then those in the church will be resurrected or changed in the twinkling of an eye into immortal bodies (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Revelation 20:4-6). Then the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1) only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge the church (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48) and then marry the church (Revelation 19:7) in the clouds, before the church mounts white horses and descends back down from sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he wages war against, and completely defeats, the armies of the world (Revelation 19:19,21). Jesus will at that time also defeat the Antichrist himself and the False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), and will have Lucifer/Satan bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

Jesus will then make the wedding feast of Revelation 19:9 for the just-resurrected and married church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9, 1 Corinthians 15:54), while the birds will feast on the corpses of the defeated armies of the world (Revelation 19:17-18). Then Jesus and the resurrected and changed church (1 Corinthians 15:51-53), including those in the church who were beheaded by the Antichrist, will rule the surviving nations with a rod of iron for the full 1,000 years of the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2).

After the 1,000 years are over, Lucifer/Satan will be released from the bottomless pit and by deception bring about the Gog/Magog rebellion, only to be defeated for the last time (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). At least seven years after the defeat of the Gog/Magog rebellion (Ezekiel 39:9b), the great white throne judgment will occur, in which all those who hadn't been resurrected and judged at Jesus' return will be resurrected and judged (Revelation 20:11-15). After the great white throne judgment, God will create a new heaven (a new first heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1, 2 Peter 3:10b,13).

Then God the Father will descend from the third heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:3), and he will dwell on the new earth with Jesus and the church in New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:3). In one area outside the walls of New Jerusalem on the new earth will be the lake of fire (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8) in which all of unsaved humanity will be punished forever in fire and brimstone with Lucifer/Satan and his fallen angels (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

 

[Bible2]

newcreature777 said in post #11:

The Rapture Miracle will happen all over the World, In a moment, In the Twinkling of an Eye

Note that the only thing that will happen in the twinkling of an eye at the second coming of Jesus Christ will be the resurrection and changing of the bodies of believers into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53). Other aspects of the second coming will occur before and after that. The first thing visible to occur at the second coming will be the light from the sun and moon being temporarily blocked from reaching the surface of the earth (Matthew 24:29a), and there will be a meteor shower (falling "stars") (Matthew 24:29). Then the sign of Jesus (possibly the Cross) will appear in the sky and the world will mourn when it realizes that it's the true Jesus who is coming back (Matthew 24:30a). Then the world will see Jesus himself in the clouds of the sky (Matthew 24:30b) and the people of the world will wail (Revelation 1:7), knowing in their spirits that Jesus is coming in wrath (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9).

But before the wrath of the second coming actually starts (Revelation 19:15-21), all the souls of the dead in Christ, who will all come back with him from the third heaven at his second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), will descend to the earth and their bodies will be resurrected (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then they and all those in Christ who survived the tribulation on the earth will be raptured up together as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

newcreature777 said in post #11:

Those in the Ark were Taken

Actually, those in Noah's ark weren't taken away and killed by the flood (Matthew 24:39a), but were kept safe in the ark while remaining on the earth.

Similarly, Lot going out from Sodom before it was destroyed (Luke 17:29) isn't analogous to the unsaved being taken and killed at the second coming (Luke 17:36-37), but is analogous to the saved being raptured at the second coming (Matthew 24:30-31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1) before Jesus begins his second-coming wrath (Revelation 19:15-21).

newcreature777 said in post #11:

The proper word is (eagles) not vultures) be gathered together Luke 17:37

Luke 17:37b isn't referring to Jesus and believers, but is referring to literal eagles. Also, Luke 17:37b is referring to the same thing as Matthew 24:28, in which the original Greek word (ptoma) translated as "body" is used to refer only to a dead body (cf. Matthew 14:12, Mark 6:29, Mark 15:45, Revelation 11:8-9). Both Luke 17:37b and Matthew 24:28 are referring back to Job 39:30b; they mean that where a slain body is, literal eagles will come and eat it. This it what will happen to the bodies of those unsaved people who will be slain by Jesus at his second coming (Revelation 19:21), just as Luke 17:37b is referring to what will happen at the second coming (Luke 17:30).

It was probably because literal eagles eat dead bodies that literal eagles were called "an abomination" in Leviticus 11:13.

newcreature777 said in post #11:

Isaiah 40:31

Isaiah 40:31 doesn't mean that believers will become literal eagles, but only that they can become "as" eagles with regard to the ability of eagles to renew their strength.

 

[muzza21]

Huh????? I respectfully disagree.

John 3:13 means that no man but Jesus Christ had ascended into heaven in a way that involved his own power. For Elijah had ascended into heaven, but by an external power (2 Kings 2:11). And if Elijah had ascended into heaven by an external power, then nothing forbids that Enoch and Moses had also ascended into heaven by an external power


Some things are just so clearly written, just look what the Catholics tried to do to the word of God. It doesn't matter how the carnal mind can twist and turn and read things in, His word is the final authority. All due respect, but yours isn't.

Hey, but don't get me wrong, if the rapture happens, great. I would prefer not to go through the big tribulation too.

But me personally, I am keeping my eyes firmly on my walk with Him, trying to be as obedient and as faithful as I can with all my heart, all my soul and all my strength. Keeping all His commandments the best I can etc.

When He says watch and pray always...

I take that to mean watch myself and my walk with Him first and foremost. Otherwise if you have it wrong and you're expecting to be taken away....

You may just find yourself in a bad position.

 

[Gnarwhal]

The idea of the rapture is a manufactured piece of theological rubbish.

It was made up by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century based on a misinterpretation of the text in 1 Thessalonians 4. If one understood the context of the Scriptures, and the symbolic language Paul was using in his letter to the Thessalonians, then it would be understood that verse 16 & 17 were painting a picture that would have been very familiar to the first century Roman citizens that his readers were. In those days, when a Roman dignitary visited an outlying territory that belonged to the Empire, whatever town that neighbored the port they arrived at would empty out. All of it's citizens would leave for the port in order to respectfully greet the dignitary upon their arrival, however, after this they would escort the dignitary back into the town.

Darby misinterpreted this not only because he read it literally, but he also missed out on a crucial factor because he didn't understand the culture, context and literary devices being employed. If he had studied that better his conclusion would have been far different, as he would've understood ultimately when Christ returns, we will escort him into his recently-completed New Creation.

Sadly, it's not really surprising that he made such an error, because a lot of the cultural nuances in the Scriptures are lost on westerners. Even more so in the present-day.

Our destiny is not some sad, narrow, theological escapism. No, our destiny is taking part in the reconciliation of the entire cosmos with it's creator through loving acts of compassion and generosity as we grow nearer to the parousia and the completion of everything that began at Christ's resurrection.

 

[muzza21]

Thank you, I didn't know that. Logic and truth show itself sooner or later one way or the other

 

[John S]

Referring to the end times, Jesus said that "many will be deceived".
Sadly, those people who believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture have already been deceived by Satan - one of his greatest deceptions of them all.

 

[Biblewriter]

The idea of the rapture is a manufactured piece of theological rubbish.

It was made up by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century based on a misinterpretation of the text in 1 Thessalonians 4. If one understood the context of the Scriptures, and the symbolic language Paul was using in his letter to the Thessalonians, then it would be understood thatverse 16 & 17 were painting a picture that would have been very familiar to the first century Roman citizens that his readers were. In those days, when a Roman dignitary visited an outlying territory that belonged to the Empire, whatever town that neighbored the port they arrived at would empty out. All of it's citizens would leave for the port in order to respectfully greet the dignitary upon their arrival, however, after this they would escort the dignitary back into the town.
Darby misinterpreted this not only because he read it literally, but he also missed out on a crucial factor because he didn't understand the culture, context and literary devices being employed. If he had studied that better his conclusion would have been far different, as he would've understood ultimately when Christ returns, we will escort him into his recently-completed New Creation.

Sadly, it's not really surprising that he made such an error, because a lot of the cultural nuances in the Scriptures are lost on westerners. Even more so in the present-day.

Our destiny is not some sad, narrow, theological escapism. No, our destiny is taking part in the reconciliation of the entire cosmos with it's creator through loving acts of compassion and generosity as we grow nearer to the parousia and the completion of everything that began at Christ's resurrection.

The claim that this doctrine originated with Darby in the 19th century is widely circulated, but completely erroneous. It is true that Darby made the doctrine widely known, but he was far from the first one to teach it.

Irenaeus, whose writings are the earliest surviving example of a whole genre of early Christian writings, wrote of the evil of the nations and then said, "And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, 'There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.'For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption'" (Against Heresies, Book V, Chapter XXIX, section 2. "Against Heresies was one of the most widely circulated non-inspired writings in the entire ancient church. It is believed to have been written between the years 186 ans 188.)

We need to notice the following elements in this short statement:

First, the church will be "suddenly caught up."

Second, after the church is "Suddenly caught up," "There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be." Lest anyone claim that this is not specifically stated to be after “the church is "suddenly caught up," please note that the grammatical construction (when) -- (one event takes place) -- (a second event takes place) has two possible meanings. It either means that the two events will take place at the same time or it means that the second event will take place after the first event. But it cannot mean that the second event takes place before the first event. In this case the first event is clearly instantaneous and the second event will obviously consume a significant period of time. So it is unreasonable to argue that the writer’s intention was anything other than to state that this “great tribulation” would take place after the church is “suddenly caught up.”

Third, this period of great tribulation is specifically called "the last contest of the righteous." and it explicitly says of these righteous in this particular contest, "in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption."

Now many will imagine that this necessarily means that these words mean the church. But many pre-tribbers, including myself, maintain that the reason the church id caught up before this time is because at the time of the rapture God will again began to deal with Israel as such. The Old Testament scriptures that describe this period (and there are many of them) make it plain that the majority of them will be rebels whom God will punish. But a few among them will be righteous. (God calls that small group a remnant.)

So this statement clearly teaches that the rapture will occur before the great tribulation. Elsewhere in the same document he has the church being persecuted by the Antichrist, so his position seems to have been what would today be called a mid-trib rapture.

There is also other evidence of similar doctrine having been taught in ancient times. Among these we find the following statement by John of Crysostem which is thought to have been written sometime between the years 395 and 407.

“2 Thessalonians ii. 6–9
“‘And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season. For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of His mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of His coming: even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan.’
“One may naturally enquire, what is that which withholdeth, and after that would know, why Paul expresses it so obscurely. What then is it that withholdeth, that is, hindereth him from being revealed? Some indeed say, the grace of the Spirit, but others the Roman empire, to whom I most of all accede. Wherefore? Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him.” (Homilies on 2 Thessalonians, Homily IV, by John Chrysostom, from Volume XIII of “Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers,” series 2, as translated by James Tweed and edited by Philip Schaff, as found in the American edition edited by Phillip Schaff , and as found online at Welcome to the CCEL | Christian Classics Ethereal Library.)

Although it is strangely stated, this appears to be a saying that some in the day of John of Crysostom were saying that the restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2:6 is the Holy Spirit. As this is one of the key elements of the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture, this appears to be evidence that some were teaching this doctrine around the beginning of the fifth century. This is all the more important historically, because the man who mentioned it did not himself believe this doctrine.

But in addition to these critically important very early comments, we have absolute proof that the claim that the church had always taught the doctrine of the post tribulation rapture before a few hundred years ago is completely incorrect. This proof is found in a document, whose age and author is unknown, but which is known to have been in Church libraries before the year 800. Based on events referred to in this document as impending, various scholars have estimated its date from as early as 373 to as late as 627. One ancient manuscript says this document was written by Isadore of Sevelle, while three others say its author was Ephraem the Syrian. All of these were written in Latin, but there are also Greek and Syraic manuscripts of this same document. The existence of at least six ancient manuscripts, in at least three languages, is strong evidence that this document was widely circulated. As scholars do not believe the unknown author could have been the famous Ephraem the Syrian, (who is also known as Ephraem of Nisbis) they call this unknown author Pseudo-Ephraem. This document says,

“Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: ‘Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!’ For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.” (“On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World,” author unknown but called Pseudo-Ephraem, section 2, From “The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition,” by Paul J. Alexander, Berkeley: University of California Press, 1985, 2.10. Cited there from “Abhandlungen und Predigten aus den zwei letzten Jahrhunderten des kirchlichen Altertums und dem Anfang des Mittelaters,” C. P. Caspari, ed. Briefe, Christiania, 1890, 208-20. As found online at On the Last Times, the Anti-Christ, andthe End of the World .)

AN unknown writer wrote in the fourteenth century, concerning a leader known as Brother Dolcino, that "[T]he Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he [Dolcino] and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist." (The History of Brother Dolcino, composed in 1316. I apologize that I failed to save the source for this information.)

In addition to these very old statements. at least three writers of the seventeenth and eighteenth centurys also said that the rapture would happen before the great tribulation.

This makes a total of no less than six writers who made such statements long before Darby was born in the year 1800.