The Rapture?

[Jesusmyfriend]

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[Lynn73]

I'm pre-trib, this person doesn't seem to be unless I missed something. But, hey, we'll see won't we?

 

[daverain]

From Scripture alone:

(Please notice the order of events)

///////////////////////////////////////////

2 Thessalonians 2



1.



Now we request you, brethren,

with regard to

the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

and

our gathering together to Him...


////////////////////////////////////////////

See? Christ returns,

-THEN-

we are gathered to Him.

(=rapture AT Second Coming, NOT before)



Peace in Christ.

 

[ChrisinMI]

This is how God has worked since Noah's time. Enoch was taken. Noah was preserved through. The unbelievers killed.

Lot was told to get the heck out of Dodge so the angels could do their work. It was clear that the angels couldn't do their work unless righteous Lot was taken out.

Daniel was mysteriously missing during the Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego business.

I also believe that the Church will be taken before He pours out His wrath on the planet.

It's really simple. Jesus loves us and wants us to be with him. John 17:24 - "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world."

He's going to take us to be with him. Then, he's going to punish the unbelieving world and preserve the remnant of Israel.

Had not thought of it that way...good point.

 

[RMathison]

(regarding the post before this one)

What about the fact that Christians are promised: PERSECUTION?

 

[JonahII]

I'm pre-trib, but I know there are good arguments on both sides. My philosophy is pray for pre and prepare for post.

 

[RMathison]

prepare for post.

I agree with the part that's been said in the above quotes.

 

[Yeshuas_Freedom77]

I vote Pre,

Yes, the Bible does say that it will be at the sound of the last trump. but you also have to understand Hebraic customs.

Paul, who was a Jewish Rabbi, refers to a specific trump, it is called the Last trump. a shofar that is sounded on Yom Teruah (Feast of Trumpets).

You will also notice that he will come back after the tribulation of those days (refering to the last days). NOT AFTER THE GREAT TRIB.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Please take a look at the signs. Cause them signs are repeated in Revelation before the Great Tribulation (Wrath of the Lamb).

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

We are in Heaven before The Great Trib

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

The bible also says that we are not appointed to wrath. and that He will keep us from the hour of temtation (greek is means adversity), which is to come on the whole world.

Yeshua said that when these signs begin to happen, we should look up and lift up our eyes. not after they happened. The Jewish bridegroom aslo gathers his bride to him. seven days before they show themselves publically together.


Blessings in the name of our Lord, Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah).

 

[RMathison]

I vote Pre,



We are in Heaven before The Great Trib


Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;



Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Thanks for the input.

For now:

In my opinion, those who 'came out' of 'the great tribulation' , were MURDERED.

We read about BABYLON THE GREAT harlot, who 'was drunk with the BLOOD of the saints'.


Cheers.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I vote Pre,

Yes, the Bible does say that it will be at the sound of the last trump. but you also have to understand Hebraic customs.

I would respectfully suggest you study the Jewish style of apocolyptic writing (it's a distinct style) it will shed some light on your understanding of John's Revelation.

Shalom............

 

[Yeshuas_Freedom77]

No, they cam out of great tribulation. Not out of the great tribualation. And show me where they were beheaded. from Scriputre. And By the way. And I happen to study my Hebraic roots. But I do respect both of yalls oppinions. but I will have to go with Scriptures more than oppinions.

 

[ronmathison]

9When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;

10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"

11And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.