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The Rapture theory is true?

Jeff Saunders

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This idea goes against what the early church fathers thought. Most of the early church fathers said they were taught that the six days of creation correspond to six thousand years then the 1000 year millennium was like the sabbath when God rested , this time Jesus rules from Jerusalem. As far as the rapture is concerned my question is if you don’t have a pre trib rapture then who goes into the millennium to repopulate the earth? When Jesus comes back all the church is glorified and all the nonbelievers are taken away by Jesus then who is left to go into millennium? That is why I believe that the rapture must take place before the millennium after the church is gone ( fullness of the gentiles completed) then the veil is removed from the Jews and many will accept Jesus also the “church “ people who were not saved and others will see the truth and repent and become the tribulation saints, those who make it through will be those who repopulate the earth as Jesus reigns on David’s throne from Jerusalem. This is the only way I see all the puzzle pieces put together.
 
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Dan Perez

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And there is NOW Greek word called RAPTURE AT ALL . PERIOD .

# 1 And in 2 Thess 2:1 the word COMING //PAROUSIA of our Lord Jesus Christ , , even our gathering together unto Him !

# 2 In 2 Thess 2:3 No one should thoroughly DECIEVE YOU IN , NOT // ME , is a DISJUNJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , never

# 3 anyone DECIEVEEEEEEEEEEEEE , NEVERRRRRRRRRRR , except the DEPARTURE // APOSTASIA , meaning the departure

#4 of the BODY of CRIST is coming , SHOULD COME FIRST // PROTOS , and the MAN of SIN should be REVEALED

# 5 the son of DESTRUCTION 2 Thess 2:4 the one opposing and EXALTING Himself over all things being called God or OBJECT

# 6OF WORSHIP so that he as God is to sit down into the TEMPLE of God , exhibiting himself that he is God .

# 7 And here we see the the BODY of Christ , DEPARTURE , we see the MAN of sin after the DEPATURE of the BODY

# 8 OF CHRIST ,we see the anti- christ , and then the Great Tribulation .

# 9 And in Gal 1:4 we he word RECUSE //EXAIREO , meani ng to PLUCK OUT , another word for being caught up

# 11 and we see the word COMING // PAROUSIA in 1 Thess 3:13

This is why I am a DISPENSATIONALIST , PRE- TRI and PRE- MIL

dan p
 
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BobRyan

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2 Thess 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, (IE - the rapture) we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


Matt 24:29 "immediately AFTER The Tribulation...." the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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BobRyan

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There are three rapture versions
1. Pre-trib -- that you are describing above
2. Mid-trib - also similar to what you describe
3. post-trib - very different from what you are describing - but it does fit Matt 24:29-31 and 2 Thess 2
, which according to this teaching, will usher in the 1000 year millennial reign on earth (which is also a false teaching).
The 1000 year reign is found in Rev 20:1-6.
But it is not on Earth since Rev 19 ends everything on Earth and so also does 2 Thess 1:5-8 end all the lost on Earth
and Jer 4:23-26 also shows a desolate Earth during the 1000 year millennium
Good point.

1 Peter 1:13 13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, set your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 1:5-8 revealed flaming fire dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the Gospel.
Number 2. "IN THE RAPTURE, JESUS COMES FOR HIS CHURCH, AT HIS SECOND COMING HE BRINGS THE CHURCH WITH HIM" ... They say that Jesus takes His church away in the rapture, quoting 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.
True - He does do that.
True. And so it is all the same event.
1 Thess 4:13-18 makes the return of Christ, the appearing of Christ the rapture event where saints are "caught up" in the air (Rapturo in Latin)

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

Paul explains how it is that those who have fallen asleep are not left to be last or even missed. He points out that at Christ's appearing it is the DEAD in Christ (not we who are alive and remain) that are caught up in the air first - before "we who are alive and remain"
NOTE: If the rapture theory is a true Biblical teaching. Why was it not well known and popularized until the early 20th century?
1 Thess 4 was written before the 20th century.

But as you noted - the "secret" 2-phase rapture-vs-appearing idea is a later idea
 
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Dan Perez

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And what I am just going to WRITE , has been KNOWN for over 2000 years , and where everyone BEEN ??

2 Thess 2:5 reads , Do you , NOT // is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE ,

THAT // NOTI , is a Conjuncation

WHEN I WAS // ON , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , PARTICIPLE MOOD , NOMINATIVE CASE , in the PLURAL

YET // ETI , is an ADVERB

WITH // PROS , PERPOSITION

I TOLD // LEGO , IMPERFECT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , INDICATIVE MOOD , means you better believe it , in the SINGULAR ,

means to all believers during PAULS TIME .

YOU // HYMIN , is a POSSESSIVE PERSONAL PRONOUN , in the Greek DATIVE CASE , in the PLURAL , means to ALL .

THESE THINGS // TAUTA , in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE , IN THE NEUTER , meaning Male and Female

is a DEMONSTRTIVE PRONOUN .

So all GRACE BELIEVERS knew about it and verse 6-17 is GREAT READ !!

dan p
 
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FredVB

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I would not think a hard and fast conclusion can be rightly made of six days corresponding to six thousand years from what scriptures show. I consider that believers have more focus on a rapture ahead for them than is needed. There is no such deliverance for them from troubles they have in this world, that is an error. God would have them out from the world when God's judgment which is not for them would come in this world full of those who are unrepentant. There will be the collapse ahead of that.
 
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keras

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I would not think a hard and fast conclusion can be rightly made of six days corresponding to six thousand years from what scriptures show.
But the Bible does show exact 2000 year periods between Adam to Abram and from Abraham to Jesus. Now; almost another 2000 years since Jesus. These are facts, historical and logical.
Then we are told about the one thousand years when King Jesus will reign over the physical earth. Making a 7000 year total of Gods Plan for mankind.

Note; that God never 'raptured' the early Christian martyrs, or any Christians being killed for their faith now. This simple fact totally destroys the whole false idea of a removal to heaven for anyone.
 
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Jan001

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Hi keras,

It seems to me that Jesus only returns bodily to earth once more, and it is at the end of time, and then the Judgment will begin in the Valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 4:12) Jesus' kingdom is not a physical earthly kingdom. It seems to me that many people think that the thousand years mentioned in the Book of Revelation is literal, but the other Scriptures do not show this.

Hebrews 9:28 so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await him.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingly power:


2 Timothy 4:8 From now on the crown of righteousness awaits me, which the Lord, the just judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but to all who have longed for his appearance.

1 Timothy 6:13-15 I charge [you] before God, who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus, who gave testimony under Pontius Pilate for the noble confession, 14 to keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ 15 that the blessed and only ruler will make manifest at the proper time, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
 
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keras

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You cannot just dismiss the six mentions of a thousand year period in Revelation 20. Whatever next would you like to erase?
There IS other scriptural proofs; Genesis 1 and Hosea 6:2, +. Also Isaiah 2:1-4 and Zechariah 14:16-21, show how King Jesus will reign over the world after His Return. Why do you want to deny Jesus His reward? Psalms 2:8

The living and the dead, will be Judged AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
 
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Jan001

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You cannot just dismiss the six mentions of a thousand year period in Revelation 20. Whatever next would you like to erase?
I do not dismiss them. I don't agree with how you interpret this "thousand-year" period. It is a symbolic number only. Jesus' kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. He received his kingdom when he ascended into heaven after his resurrection. He will continue to reign at his Father's right hand over all the world UNTIL all his enemies are put under his feet. Jesus will definitely not descend bodily to earth and reign in Jerusalem for a literal one thousand years before the end of time.

Mark 12:36
David himself, inspired by the holy Spirit, said: ‘The Lord said to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet.”’

Luke 22:69
But from this time on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”

Hebrews 10:12
But this one offered one sacrifice for sins, and took his seat forever at the right hand of God;

1 Peter 3:22
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.

1 Corinthians 15:22-27
For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, 23 but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ; 24 then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death, 27 for “he subjected everything under his feet.” But when it says that everything has been subjected, it is clear that it excludes the one who subjected everything to him.


When is death destroyed, never to be experienced by any human being?
Death is destroyed forevermore when Jesus returns to earth at the end of time.

There IS other scriptural proofs; Genesis 1 and Hosea 6:2, +. Also Isaiah 2:1-4 and Zechariah 14:16-21, show how King Jesus will reign over the world after His Return. Why do you want to deny Jesus His reward? Psalms 2:8
These have all been fulfilled. Jesus has received his reward. Jesus, our savior and king, is now spiritually reigning over the whole world, as he is seated at the right hand of his Father. He will continue to rule from there until it is time for his second coming and the judgment of the living and the dead in the Valley of Jehoshaphat.

The Judah of the first covenant does not exist anymore. There is no way that a billion or billions of human people will be traveling to Jerusalem for the first covenant's many feast's days. Jesus nailed these first covenant requirements to the cross. They are no longer in force. They are no longer relevant.

Colossians 2:9-17 For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily, 10 and you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ. 12 You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And even when you were dead [in] transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; 14 obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross; 15 despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it.
Practices Contrary to Faith: 16 Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 17 These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.

Isaiah's prophetic warning was specifically for Judah and Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:1-4 was fulfilled with the Babylonian captivity. A second fulfillment was when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. Christians are now all one in Christ. There are no distinctions between nationalities. Galatians 3:28
The living and the dead, will be Judged AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
Jesus returns bodily to earth only at the end of time, not before. The so-called millennium is actually the long time period between Jesus' resurrection and ascension into heaven and his second coming. All the saints in heaven are spiritually reigning with Jesus right now. They will reign with him until Jesus returns to earth at the end of time to judge the living and the dead.

John 5:28-29 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.

1 Corinthians 15:52
in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
 
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