The writer has assumed [falsely] that Pharaoh was already "in the light" and by refusing to yeild to Moses demand, then began "turning to darkness"....such a notion is seriously flawed.
I wonder why Exodus 4:21 is ignored? God specifically said that HE would harden Pharaoh's heart. Not Pharaoh, not Moses, God Himself would harden Pharaoh's heart. Yet we have a parade of people all claiming that such is not the case, that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, all by himself, blah, blah, blah....And then we are lectured by a newbie on how we must "rightly divide the word of Truth".
Arminianism and it's kissin' cousin, semi-Pelagianism, are running rampant in churches today. Itching ears and all....
So be it. What I shared was ample enough. Yet, here are a couple of more reasons.
God does not create men to destroy but to save them. " ... who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Each soul in the world can say, "He loved me and gave Himself for me." The whole gift of Christ is for each individual.
One scripture does not negate another. Christ has by grace tasted death for every man, so that every man in the world has received the "inexpressible gift."
"For the grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to ALL MEN." Titus 2:11.
We cannot take one scripture in principle and make a whole doctrine of it. That's why line upon line is required. Let us not fail to make the standard higher then our thoughts, but let take the word of God and rightly divide it. May God bring you peace to your soul.
blessings in Christ,
John
yet we have John 3:19 that all men perfer darkness over light and in john 1:4-5 the light is defined as Jesus
do I need to connect the dots...
I wonder why Exodus 4:21 is ignored? God specifically said that HE would harden Pharaoh's heart. Not Pharaoh, not Moses, God Himself would harden Pharaoh's heart. Yet we have a parade of people all claiming that such is not the case, that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, all by himself, blah, blah, blah....And then we are lectured by a newbie on how we must "rightly divide the word of Truth".
Arminianism and it's kissin' cousin, semi-Pelagianism, are running rampant in churches today. Itching ears and all....
Wow. I remember when I first heard the word "Ariminian".... I had been reading the bible on my own for years, just assuming from my readings that Christ died for all. Eventually I decided to do some seeking for a Church and put a meeting with a Presbyterian minister on the list. He was a young guy, just out of seminary, and he went on and on all afternoon, the Arminians this, the Arminians that. Guy was obsessed. I had no clue who he was talking about but he was buying lunch so I just went along with it....Guy was really worked up, bitter, and his rather large Church building was about empty. But in any case, you are making the TULIP claims based on scripture and it`s your job to prove the points. You have failed with the overwhelming majority of Christendom. There are prooftexts for the TULIP within an elaborate, very intellectual system but those that aren`t buying find other verses. You just haven`t sold us on these points, though some dissenters accept some of them and believe about everything else you believe. Call us what you want to, allege heresy, other slander like "self centeredness," etc. but most just aren`t sold on your claims. Get over it and start working for the kingdom.
Wow. I remember when I first heard the word "Ariminian".... I had been reading the bible on my own for years, just assuming from my readings that Christ died for all. Eventually I decided to do some seeking for a Church and put a meeting with a Presbyterian minister on the list. He was a young guy, just out of seminary, and he went on and on all afternoon, the Arminians this, the Arminians that. Guy was obsessed. I had no clue who he was talking about but he was buying lunch so I just went along with it....Guy was really worked up, bitter, and his rather large Church building was about empty. But in any case, you are making the TULIP claims based on scripture and it`s your job to prove the points. You have failed with the overwhelming majority of Christendom. There are prooftexts for the TULIP within an elaborate, very intellectual system but those that aren`t buying find other verses. You just haven`t sold us on these points, though some dissenters accept some of them and believe about everything else you believe. Call us what you want to, allege heresy, other slander like "self centeredness," etc. but most just aren`t sold on your claims. Get over it and start working for the kingdom.
You talk much opinion, but no scripture. Let me ask you, does Christ "give himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (1 Tim. 2:5). Yea or Nay.
Wow. I remember when I first heard the word "Ariminian".... I had been reading the bible on my own for years, just assumingfrom my readings that Christ died for all.
All truth is one, and the scripture is in perfect harmony. He does lighteth every man that comes into the world. Even you dear brother, by nature, prefer darkness over light. There is nothing good in you, all have gone astray, by nature we are the children of wrath. Not one seeks after God. No one understands.
By nature we all have very combative, antagonistic and condensending spirits. May they be "softened" by God's love. You need not "connect the dots." blessings to you.
John S.
It`s all here in the forum, the Calvinist verses, Ariminian verses, on and on going back years. Why should I waste an hour this afternoon doing it again? But anyone up for a real challenge, go down to the "General Apologetics" forum and defend the very premise, God and the infallibility of the bible. Now that`s some work, are few believers down there.....
i have several times called for this , i recall hardly anyone was interested , not interested in the lost !!!
It`s not for the faint of heart Bro, but probably worth it if equipped. Are some wanna be atheists down there that can be impressed when a theist can trade blows with their heros...
A short article regarding the Hardening of Pharaohs Heart, by a preacher of righteousness:
WHEN the Lord sent Moses to demand the release of the children of Israel, he said, I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand, but by a strong hand; and again, I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Ex. 3:19; 4:21.
This is by many supposed to show that Pharaoh could not help himself, but that he was obliged to exhibit stubbornness, and to refuse to allow Israel to go forth. As a consequence, they doubt the justice and mercy of God. They think that God purposely made Pharaoh just what he was, in order that he might make an exhibition of him.
If that were true, it would be an exhibition of Gods denial of himself; for justice and judgment are the habitation of his throne; mercy and truth go before his face. Ps. 89:14. He is love. 1 John 4:8. He doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men. Lam. 3:33. He is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9.
God says that he raised up Pharaoh in order to show in him his power, and that his name might be declared throughout all the earth. Is it not strange that people should from this at once jump to the conclusion that God raised up Pharaoh on purpose to cast him down? Is that the only way that God has of showing his power and making his name known?Most assuredly not. His power is shown in his salvation; and his wondrous works declare his excellent name. See Psalms 8. To conclude that God willfully hardens mens hearts and makes it impossible for them to do right, in order that he may torment them, argues very little, if any, acquaintance with God.
Let us note a few points in the narrative of Gods dealings with Pharaoh, which will indicate how Pharaohs heart was hardened. When Moses and Aaron first appeared to Pharaoh, certain miracles were performed. These were counterfeited by the magicians, so that the king, who loved a lie better than the truth, refused to believe the divine message, although evidence was given that the power with Moses was superior to that with the magicians. This was repeated several times.
The magicians, however, could not remove the plagues that they brought in imitation of those brought by the Lord, and so when the plague of frogs became intolerable, Pharaoh appealed to the servants of God, saying, Entreat the Lord, that he may take away the frogs from me, and from my people; and I will let the people go, that they may do sacrifice unto the Lord. Ex. 8:8. It will be seen that Pharaoh had learned who the Lord is. According to his request, Moses cried unto the Lord, and the frogs died out of the houses, out of the villages, and out of the fields. But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said. Verse 15.
Again, swarms of flies plagued the people, and Pharaoh again relented. And Moses went out from Pharaoh, and intreated the Lord. And the Lord did according to the word of Moses; and he removed the swarms of flies from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people; there remained not one. And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go. Ex. 8:30-32.
Other plagues were sent, all the details of which are not given, and Pharaoh still refused to keep his word. Then the terrible hail came, mingled with fire, so that the crops and flocks were destroyed. Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail. And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the Lord is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. Intreat the Lord (for it is enough) that there be no more mighty thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer. Ex. 9:26-28.
Here was a confession of sin and an acknowledgment of the Lord and his righteousness. The result showed that Pharaohs sorrow was not a godly sorrow, but only the sorrow of the world, produced by fear; nevertheless God took him at his word. This is an evidence of the kindness of the Lord, and of his unwillingness that any should perish. Although he can read the heart, and knew Pharaohs insincerity, and that he would not hold fast to his confession and promise, that made no difference. God acted as though Pharaohs repentance was sincere, so that he could have no excuse.
And Moses went out of the city from Pharaoh, and spread abroad his hands unto the Lord; and the thunders and hail ceased, and the rain was not poured upon the earth. And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the Lord had spoken by Moses. Ex. 9:33-35.
Thus we see that it was the mercy of the Lord that hardened Pharaohs heart. When the judgments of God came, he repented; but as soon as favor was shown him, he became stubborn again. Thus he mocked the Lord and despised his mercy. Where can the Lord be blamed in this affair? If a man will not be moved either by judgments or by favors, what can be done for him? He despises the goodness and forbearance and longsuffering of God, and after his hardness and impenitent heart treasures up unto himself wrath. He brings his own destruction upon himself, and God is clear.
The mercy of the Lord endureth forever. Even in the punishment of the wicked, God does not forget mercy. The sun that melts the wax, hardens the clay. The same glory that transforms those who yield themselves to God, consumes those who are contentious and do not obey the truth. And so the dealing of God with Pharaoh is cited by the apostle, in the ninth of Romans, as an evidence of the mercy and longsuffering of God. End Article
i spent a year down there , only one person "came through" , his name is Avatar.
Yea there are always a few good believers working the field there. Are a few sharp atheists regulars as well that are congenial, but be ready to spar...
I thought the whole idea was for the Lord to bring us from darkness...into the Light.Greetings,
You stated, "The writer has assumed [falsely] that Pharaoh was already "in the light" and by refusing to yield to Moses demand, then began "turning to darkness"....such a notion is seriously flawed."
If the writer is "flawed" then Christ Jesus himself was ....? The writer is simply spiritually discerning Christ's own words. Jesus said, "That was the true Light [Jesus] which lighteth every man that cometh into the world" (John 1:9).
Dear brother, if you demand a "yes" or "no" answer from others, certainly you do not deny the fact that Christ Jesus "lighteth every man that cometh into the world."
When you state this is a "seriously flawed" statement those are words to bring into disrepute someone's statement. That is a politician's tactic, not sound Biblical doctrine. Please show me the truth of something, and let the Word speak for itself. The "debating style" is for the enemy of all righteousness. May God bring peace to OUR souls and die to self.
blessings to you in Christ,
John S.
Question for you.Wow. I remember when I first heard the word "Ariminian".... I had been reading the bible on my own for years, just assuming from my readings that Christ died for all. Eventually I decided to do some seeking for a Church and put a meeting with a Presbyterian minister on the list. He was a young guy, just out of seminary, and he went on and on all afternoon, the Arminians this, the Arminians that. Guy was obsessed. I had no clue who he was talking about but he was buying lunch so I just went along with it....Guy was really worked up, bitter, and his rather large Church building was about empty. But in any case, you are making the TULIP claims based on scripture and it`s your job to prove the points. You have failed with the overwhelming majority of Christendom. There are prooftexts for the TULIP within an elaborate, very intellectual system but those that aren`t buying find other verses. You just haven`t sold us on these points, though some dissenters accept some of them and believe about everything else you believe. Call us what you want to, allege heresy, other slander like "self centeredness," etc. but most just aren`t sold on your claims. Get over it and start working for the kingdom.
Question for you.
Did God speak these words as recorded in scripture "I will harden his heart, so that he will" (Ex 4:21) Yes or No ?
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