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The Question of Authority

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Hello, everyone! I'm going through Ryrie's Basic Theology and discussing what I find there. Feel free to join in. Or something. Anyway.

Hope this is in the right forum. Hope nobody gets offended. Hope I'm generally doing this right...

<<text follows>>

Basic Theology, Chapter 3​

There are three distinct categories when it comes to deciding where authority over truth rests, which can be divvied up into a number of subcategories. The first major category is Liberalism, which generally places the authority and responsibility on the reader. Liberal theists can be generally divided into three categories based on where in the reader the authority lies. The first is Reason; many liberal science professors fall into this category. According to this group, logic and reason are the ultimate judge of truth. The problem with this is that reason and science can lead in more than one direction; this causes the ancient “it may be true for you, but it’s not true for me” chant. The result is that there is no consistent, universal truth. This standpoint conflicts with God’s consistent, universal nature.
The second category of liberals is those who place the authority in feelings—religion based on how you feel. As we all know, humans are fickle creatures, and truth based on their momentary emotions has a tendency to flicker from one moment to the next.
The third category is based on conscience. Conscience, it should be noted, is basic to all human beings, not specifically Christians. Although undoubtedly the Holy Spirit collaborates with the conscience to influence us, the conscience is not directly dependant on God—it is often, if not always, shaped by cultural norms and a person’s surroundings. In addition, it can become either seared or hyperactive. Obviously, the conscience cannot be relied on to produce universal truth.
A middle ground between liberals and conservatives is Neo-Orthodoxy. As we all know, standing between two armies will get you shot at from both sides, and neo-orthodoxy is no exception: it’s too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for liberals; (Rather like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his bid for governor…) the only group neo-orthodoxists please are themselves. Neo-orthodoxists teach that Jesus, the Man who inspired the Bible, is infallible, but the Biblical account is not; in other words, we should strive for Jesus, but not trust the Bible any more than we would a newspaper account of the events. Trying to find Jesus under this system is like wandering through a giant darkened maze with a light at one end; you know which direction you need to be going, but not how to get there.
With Conservatism, we’re on more solid ground. Even it, however, has its divisions. Conservative Catholicism puts authority on the Bible, but only in parallel with the Church. Common mortals are not allowed to read and interpret the Bible for themselves; instead, the Church interprets and spoon-feeds the Scriptures to the huddled masses. What’s more, the Bible is not even the final authority: whatever the Pope or ecumenical councils have decreed in the past qualifies as absolute truth, even if they contradict the Scriptures or each other. This was demonstrated when Joan of Arc was declared a witch by the Church and burned at the stake, only to be declared a saint several hundred years later by the same Church.
Finally, we come to Conservative Protestantism. While using logic and rationalism (in their place), CP takes the Bible as the 100% inspired Word of God.
 

Philip

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The Tweaker said:
Conservative Catholicism puts authority on the Bible, but only in parallel with the Church. Common mortals are not allowed to read and interpret the Bible for themselves; instead, the Church interprets and spoon-feeds the Scriptures to the huddled masses. What’s more, the Bible is not even the final authority: whatever the Pope or ecumenical councils have decreed in the past qualifies as absolute truth, even if they contradict the Scriptures or each other.

This is not even remotely close to being an accurate description of the Catholic Church.

BTW, what about Orthodoxy? Why are we left out?
 
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Godzman

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sigh.gif
 
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what do you want to discuss about Ryrie's points/divisions?
Anything at all. Agree, disagree? Would have said it differently? Just general discussion.

This is not even remotely close to being an accurate description of the Catholic Church.
Sorry, should have toned that down a little. Great way to start in a new forum, huh?

BTW, what about Orthodoxy? Why are we left out?
Because Ryrie didn't mention you in that section. Sorry. Maybe next time.

Well, here's the next installment, and I think it's less controversial. Enjoy.

<<text follows>>
Basic Theology, Chapter 4: The Knowledge of God​

In the first section, Ryrie explains that God is neither completely unknowable nor knowable in full. God has given us a certain degree of knowledge of Him with the Bible, but that does not mean we can know everything about God—the mystery of the Trinity demonstrates a single aspect of that.
Next, Ryrie explains in a very roundabout way the fact that the only source of knowledge about God is God himself. Other sources have been theorized, but they are unreliable. Praise God that He chose to reveal Himself to us!
Ryrie then points out the difference between knowing facts about a person and knowing the person, noting that both are invaluable for a relationship. This has a direct impact on Bible study; reading the Bible and memorizing the names of God is ineffective without direct communication with Him. (Likewise, talking to God without learning anything about His character has its disadvantages as well.) This is especially important to observe when we’re dealing with a relationship with a Person we cannot see; in a conversation, we can say “Tell me about yourself,” but it’s not quite so easy with God. Ryrie closes section II with a short insert on how knowledge of God was revealed gradually over the centuries and a list of God’s purposes for communicating with man.
Ryrie then notes that the only knowledge we have of God is that which He chooses to reveal to us. However, God being infinite, we can study Him as much as we like without coming anywhere near knowing everything about Him.
God also gave us the gift of language—this allows us not only to communicate with Him but with each other; without this civilizations would probably not be possible. He also gave us logic and reason—the ability to form coherent sentences and paragraphs and to follow a logical chain of ideas or events through to the end. Finally, He gave us His Holy Spirit—this allows His guiding hand on us and gives us a deep and personal relationship with Him.
 
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Ken

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Concerning our knowledge of God.... do you know how Ryrie deals with passages like the following, which seem to indicate that man knows enough about God from natural or general revelation in order to condemn him ...., though admittedly, not enough from nature to save him....

(Rom 1:18-21 NASB) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, {19} because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. {20} For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. {21} For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

blessings
 
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pax

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Philip said:
This is not even remotely close to being an accurate description of the Catholic Church.

BTW, what about Orthodoxy? Why are we left out?
Thank you Phillip.

The author of that article has an extremely flawed knowledge of Catholic history and teaching. For information about the Catholic Church go straight to the documents or a well-informed Catholic who knows his/her faith, not just what other people tell them their faith is.
 
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