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Not according to the New Testament:
“Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all” (Ro 4:16 NKJV)
Romans wasn't written to people who had Isaac and Jacob as their natural ancestors.
Well, Paul says that the letter is to Christians in Rome:Romans 9-11 has Paul speaking directly to the nation of Israel, see Romans 9:1-5, Romans 10:1, Romans 11:1-2.
Can't believe no one taught you that.
Yes, in Romans 9:1-5, Paul writes about national Israel, but he is not addressing national Israel. The same applies to Romans 10:1 and Romans 11:1-2.
That's strange! The email notification of your post had it saying something abut me splitting hairs. Perhaps you edited your post. Romans 9:10 says:Read Romans 9:10 before you conclude that
So just as Paul says that those of faith are the true children of Abraham, so Christians can look to Isaac as their spiritual ancestor.
I take that as at least implied by Paul, when he writes: "For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called. That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed." God had promised Abraham:Your logic is truly astounding.
You don't know Abraham had many other children other than with Sarah? (Genesis 25:1-4)
So just because Abraham can indeed be considered our father, your strange logic makes you conclude that Isaac is therefore also our ancestor.
I take that as at least implied by Paul, when he writes: "For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called. That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed."
Well, Paul says that the letter is to Christians in Rome:
“To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Ro 1:7 NKJV)
Yes, in Romans 9:1-5, Paul writes about national Israel, but he is not addressing national Israel. The same applies to Romans 10:1 and Romans 11:1-2.
Trun to Acts 11:26 that the disciples , were called CHRISTIANS , just means followers of Christ , also in Acts 26:28 .Well, Paul says that the letter is to Christians in Rome:
“To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Ro 1:7 NKJV)
Yes, in Romans 9:1-5, Paul writes about national Israel, but he is not addressing national Israel. The same applies to Romans 10:1 and Romans 11:1-2.
Yes, I agree with that, but I was answering your post in which you had said that at least part of the epistle to the Romans was written to the nation of Israel: "Romans 9-11 has Paul speaking directly to the nation of Israel," you wrote.Trun to Acts 11:26 that the disciples , were called CHRISTIANS , just means followers of Christ , also in Acts 26:28 .
dan p
Yes, I agree with that, but I was answering your post in which you had said that at least part of the epistle to the Romans was written to the nation of Israel: "Romans 9-11 has Paul speaking directly to the nation of Israel," you wrote.
That depends what you mean. If you are asking if I could trace my physical ancestry back to Isaac and Jacob, the answer is no. If you are referring to those who have gone before me in the faith, then yes.You just need to answer this question, are Isaac and Jacob your fathers as well?
If you are asking if I could trace my physical ancestry back to Isaac and Jacob, the answer is no.
I just don't see why Paul should suddenly, in the middle of a letter addressed to Christians in Rome, change to addressing only national Israel.Then you cannot be true Israel, which is who Paul was addressing, if you bothered to read Romans 9:10, let me help you:
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Exodus 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
cough, cough, Matt. 23:9Your logic is truly astounding.
You don't know Abraham had many other children other than with Sarah? (Genesis 25:1-4)
So just because Abraham can indeed be considered our father, your strange logic makes you conclude that Isaac is therefore also our ancestor.
Paul actually does a very nice job of explaining who is of Israel that is not Israel starting in Romans 7 for himself, then progressing to Israel as a people in Romans 9 and culminating in Romans 11:8 showing us that the "spirit of slumber or stupor" is who is with Israel that is not Israel.I just don't see why Paul should suddenly, in the middle of a letter addressed to Christians in Rome, change to addressing only national Israel.
I just don't see why Paul should suddenly, in the middle of a letter addressed to Christians in Rome, change to addressing only national Israel.
cough, cough, Matt. 23:9
Abram to Abraham shows us a dividing line between a child of the flesh, Ishmael and a child of the promise, Isaac.
BOTH from within Abraham
It is a picture of the old blinded blinded by the god of this world persona and the new born again person that each of us are fated to become
Twins or 2 people in elder and younger birth orders are used to show this throughout the scriptures. Cain/Abel, Esau/Jacob, Manasseh/Ephraim, Aaron/Moses. Even the elder son and the prodigal son. Adam and Jesus, similar picture used by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:42-46
Yet Paul wrote to Gentile Christians in Rome:There is a reason why true Israel needed to have 3 fathers:
For us gentiles in the Body of Christ:
- Abraham is their father whom received the mark of circumcision to separate them from the rest of the world (Genesis 17:10-14)
- Isaac is their father whom was the child of promise (Romans 9:7-10)
- Jacob is their father whom was the elect one of God (Romans 9:11-13).
- Abraham is certainly our father in faith (Galatians 3:29)
- We are linked to Isaac only in the sense of also being children of promise, like he is (Galatians 4:28), but he is not our father in any way
Yet Jacob was also called Israel. And Paul writes in Ephesians:
- But here is the kicker, we have zero connection with Jacob, according to Paul at least. And Israel came from Jacob.
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