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Where did such pride issue come from? How did they that instinct and idea about creating offspring through sex? And to have that sex, they need to have something called desire for sex. Did they have an idea about [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] when they had that desire?pureone said:
You need food to survive thats the reason organisms eat food. Secindly, the drive for certain chemical respones like feeling hungry and thirsty will not involve its success. If a animal feels hungry it eats, if it dosent it will not. The more drive it has dosent mean that the more chances it has to succeed.Jimmy The Hand said:
Where did they come to know about such pleasure which was not embedded in their life style? Did they watch any pornographic website or what?
You are excused!! If you still have any explanations for the evolution of their instincts for sex, go ahead and shoot.Inside Edge said:
really? A population of sexally reproducing organisms will not die out if they don't have sex? seems like a basic need for a population as a whole, and that is what evolution deals with...Intrepid99 said:
pride? Fish don't have pride. (they use schools). I see you like to confuse instinct with desire. microorganisms divide and increase population without desire or sex. so the need to replicate is instinct, a chemical process. female mammals go into heat, which is instinct and a chemical change they do not control. the chemicals then affect the male to respond in an instinctual way. so far no actual thing called desire, but instead chemical processes that remained with the evolving organisms.Intrepid99 said:
God created human with emotions, passions and sensations. That would explain where the pleasure from watching baseball comes from.Jimmy The Hand said:
basically colossians has embarked on a strange track of debate, where he actually ignores all the foundational principles that determine the effectiveness of an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], when it appears. another point to note is that (from experience) not all [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] are the same, some are weak, some are strong, but even a weak response that stimulated the already present chemical and neurological instincts to get more of whatever it was that was pleasant would give a reproduction advantage.Intrepid99 said:
Inside Edge was talking about time period when ther was no idea about [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse](according to his theory). Yet, they were desperate to continue their family line or species?? [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and sex is basic instinct that succedes Survial and shelter. How can they progress to the next level of thinking about their future and children before they had the idea about sex?
Where did that replication instinct evolve from? As I said, microorganisms would not get any pleasure from dividing.
Again, God is the tailor of these instincts. They did not evolve by themselves.
True. But you failed to tell me where the process of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] came from.
Do you know anything about conscience? Did you ever listen to what God is trying to reveal to you? Did you ever read the Bible?
you don't need it. most organisms do not care about the continuity of their species (most organisms aren't even capable, unless you think that drosophila melanogaster has a yearning for happy evenings by the fermenting apple under the sunset, with the little grandkid-grubs munching away) , they just do what their instincts and genes tell them to do. The instincts and hence genes that produce a phenotype with a higher breeding success will proliferate through the population as a result of differential reproductive success between the organisms that carry those genes. It appears that your understanding of evolution is somewhat flawed. Note that a cursory read of Inside Edge's comments also reveal error, which is why this line of conversation has headed down the trail to strawman land. I will comment on IE's replies in a moment.Intrepid99 said:
I think you wandered off the line here when you said "but knows that sex is necessary for procreation" - "knows" being the problem word here. It is unlikely that Bothriomyrmex decapitans knows that she is about to steal into an enemy ants nest, produce chemicals which make the ants there ignore her (normally they would kill any intruder from another ant nest) as she makes her way towards the royal chamber, only to climb onto the back of the queen and perform the one task that she is particularly well adapred for; cutting off the head of the opposing queen and then releasing pheromones which cause the workers to obey her and look after her eggs instead of their own siblings, all with the intention of continuing her own species, she simply does it as a result of instinct, of the genes that give her the behaviours that make her do these things. forethought is not required for breeding, when instinct will do. instinct is more easily controlled by genes (as we can see equally well from bees, who will uncap the cells and remove any rotting dead larva, the switching off of particular genes can swith off one or both of these behaviours - uncapping and/or cleaning) again it is not likely the bee knows that this will benefit the hive.Inside Edge said:
again, this is a terrible strawman. ignoring the fact that microorganisms don't even have a nervous system, the issue os not over happiness, it is over breeding success. those organisms which had genotypes and phenotypes which increased their success in their environments over other present organisms would see their numbrs proliferate. "having a fun time" has nothing to do with it.Intrepid99 said:
again, instinct is not the thought ,instead a chemical process that drives the need to reproduce. There is no thinking in reproduction. quit giving human attributes to all living beings. You have it backwards. sex evolved as a means to reproduce, and it is still a chemically driven act, just like in every organismIntrepid99 said:
please explain how this falsifies the theory of evolution.
human attributes to single celled organisms.
sigh..arrgghh. instinct does not have anything to do with pleasure or desire.
are you equating evolution with athiesm? wrong
except when i told you about the chemical-driven instinct to reproduce and the chemical driven stimulus-reponse muscle contraction.
apologetics and a misconception that atheists and agnostics are amoral. wrong.
yes, and he told me in his book of the living world that evolution was his method of creation. you should read that book sometime.
ad hominem attack? yes i did. I like the story where the guy gets called baldy, so the spirit of God sends down two she-bears to kill 40 children. and when jeptha has to sacrifice his daughter because God doesn't show the same mercy he showed Abraham.
"instinct" is a dubious word to use here. the definition of instinct is "inborn pattern of behavior often responsive to specific stimuli" - and it is difficult to say if a microorganism can really be said to have "behaviour". Really, microorganisms have nothing more than reflex - an automatic unlearned reaction to a stimulus, in their case the reflex is chemical and the result of the actions of various genes which behave differently depending on the concentrations of the various chemicals and proteins in their internal and immediately external environment.Intrepid99 said:
And my point was, Jet, that the chemcal stimulus continues through the evolutionary process. nature shows call it instinct, but it is really reponse to a chemical stimulus. i'm with you, I was just trying to condense things down...Jet Black said:
yeap, I know what you mean, but remember that alot of people probably don't. hence the requirement for annoyingly verbose descriptions when a single word would do, if the meaning is correctly understood. you are right that instinct is still just chemical stimulus even in higher animals, though admittedly alot more complex, and it is usually preferable in higher animals to talk about instinct in terms of chemicals released and actual behaviours, rather than talking in terms of the chemical and metabolic responses seen in single celled organisms.pureone said:
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], as we told you 20 pages ago.Intrepid99 said:
