The Quest for Perfection

[TSIBHOD]

Can sanctification be completed in this life, or must a person die to achieve this? Are we doomed to sin while we are still on this earth, or might we progress far enough to live in perfect righteousness? Is it possible to completely overcome our sinful flesh?

That's just a few different ways of framing the question. Please vote and give your comments if you have any.

 

[Oblio]

We can always try. This is the way of the ascetics and the process of Theosis.

What do you do in a monastery everyday, anyway?” a curious youngwoman asked a pious monk. “All daylong we fall down and get up, fall down and get up, fall down and get up.”

 

[thereselittleflower]

We can always try. This is the way of the ascetics and the process of Theosis.

What do you do in a monastery everyday, anyway?” a curious youngwoman asked a pious monk. “All daylong we fall down and get up, fall down and get up, fall down and get up.”

Peace in Him!

 

[TSIBHOD]

All the votes are for yes (4 of 4)? I'm surprised that more people haven't voted no and come in here and said why. Lot's of people that I know disagree with me when I say that cessation of sin is possible.

 

[Bon]

To live in the flesh IS sin.

But to live in the spirit IS righteousness.

We are told to cast off the things of the flesh and put on the things of the spirit.

That is to cast off sin and put on righteousness.

I believe that our Heavenly Father believes that it is possible for us to do this.

Are we strong enough to do it.....?......with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, I believe that it is possible to live a life of rightousness according to the will of Yahweh.

All-be-it.....not easy.

Shalom from Bon

 

[Judge158]

i'm the first no. so far as history shows us, it has as of yet been impossible. man couldnt stop sinning, therefore the sacrifice of Christ is necessary. if man can be sinless...then why would that man need Christ?

 

[Bon]

i'm the first no. so far as history shows us, it has as of yet been impossible. man couldnt stop sinning, therefore the sacrifice of Christ is necessary. if man can be sinless...then why would that man need Christ?

It is only through Yahshua, by faith that we can submit to the will of our Father by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and live a righteous life according to His will.

Not easy to live a perfect, sinless life, but possible.

Shalom from Bon

 

[Judge158]

if we can do it, they why do we need Jesus? if i spent my entire life without sinning, why would i need Jesus?

 

[hebrew33]

Sorry, I can’t vote. There are two meanings of sin in the bible. The sin principle that we inherited and the sin of “missing the mark” The normal Christian life should be one of being dead to the sin nature but we will most likely miss the mark along the way to being righteous. I believe the path to sanctification has been overlooked in the churches today.

 

[rasell]

Can sanctification be completed in this life, or must a person die to achieve this? Are we doomed to sin while we are still on this earth, or might we progress far enough to live in perfect righteousness? Is it possible to completely overcome our sinful flesh?

That's just a few different ways of framing the question. Please vote and give your comments if you have any.

Perfection in the Bible is not defined as sinlessness.
Noah was perfect or blameless but he got drunk.
David was a man after God's heart but he sinned.

If we repent of our sins and confess them and try to follow God's will, we will be perfect, but not sinless. Jesus' blood will cover our sins.

God Bless


Marc

 

[Bon]

if we can do it, they why do we need Jesus? if i spent my entire life without sinning, why would i need Jesus?

Because there is only one way to the Father....and that's through Yahshua.

Shalom from Bon

 

[visionary]

Perfection in the Bible is not defined as sinlessness.
Noah was perfect or blameless but he got drunk.
David was a man after God's heart but he sinned.

If we repent of our sins and confess them and try to follow God's will, we will be perfect, but not sinless. Jesus' blood will cover our sins.

God Bless


Marc

I do not know how you can separate a law that is perfect from the people who follow the law perfectly.

Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

James was sure that the way to learn about perfect was looking at the perfect law and not only looking but a doer

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Paul was sure that the indwelling of the spirit of Christ was possible and would bring about the perfect man.

Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Obviously Paul though it was possible

Colossians 1:28
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

 

[TSIBHOD]

Clarification for any who are confused: I am not speaking of living one's entire life without sinning. I am asking if we can become sanctified enough that we no longer sin -- that, whereas we sinned before, we no longer do.

 

[Oblio]

I don't think that living in the flesh makes us sinful. Christ after all was 100% man, yet He never sinned. Nor would someone living a sinless life make them free from death. IMO, God could, through His Grace, empower someone to live a sinless life.

 

[Oblio]

I don't think that living in the flesh makes us sinful. Christ after all was 100% man, yet He never sinned. Nor would someone living a sinless life make them free from death. IMO, God could, through His Grace, empower someone to live a sinless life.

Added: Simulpost. Not sure about the last question

 

[Bon]

I don't think that living in the flesh makes us sinful. Christ after all was 100% man, yet He never sinned. Nor would someone living a sinless life make them free from death. IMO, God could, through His Grace, empower someone to live a sinless life.

Yahshua came in the flesh, but He lived in the spirit. He did not live in the flesh....if He did He would have sinned.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,

Galatians 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:8
For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,

Shalom from Bon

 

[TSIBHOD]

Added: Simulpost. Not sure about the last question

Are you saying that you're not sure about the way I framed the question most recently (post #13)? If so, are you saying that you would believe that God might sometimes have a special person whom He preserves from sin all throughout his life; but none of us "regular people" could stop sinning? Or do I understand you incorrectly?

 

[YahwehLove]

I do not know how you can separate a law that is perfect from the people who follow the law perfectly.

Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

James was sure that the way to learn about perfect was looking at the perfect law and not only looking but a doer

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Paul was sure that the indwelling of the spirit of Christ was possible and would bring about the perfect man.

Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Obviously Paul though it was possible

Colossians 1:28
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

and yet he didnt consider himself perfect at all.

Phi 3:12 Not that I have already obtained, or have already been made perfect; but I press on, if also I may lay hold of that for which I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:13 Brothers, I do not count myself to have laid hold; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:15 Therefore, as many as are mature, let us think this way; and if in anything you think otherwise, even this God will reveal to you.

He raced to attain perfection, he never said he could be without sin.

 

[YahwehLove]

Can sanctification be completed in this life, or must a person die to achieve this? Are we doomed to sin while we are still on this earth, or might we progress far enough to live in perfect righteousness? Is it possible to completely overcome our sinful flesh?

That's just a few different ways of framing the question. Please vote and give your comments if you have any.

Ill tell you this much.
Ive run across men who believed this flesh could be perfected and that they were beyond sin.

The one man was in my house telling me that if he ever slipped and said a foul word that you may as well say that he was never saved.
He spoke in tongues and all that as well on a regular basis too.

Then he was busted embezzling from the church and some sexual sin that his wife caught him in.
And they said he was using some pretty harsh language and threats as well when they caught him.

Jesus' death covers our sins.
John tells us not to sin, but if we do we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ.
Not much need for a lawyer if I dont need representing for crimes not committed.
If we could have been sinless in this flesh, there would have been no reason for thenew covenant in my opinion.

 

[Oblio]

Are you saying that you're not sure about the way I framed the question most recently (post #13)?

I'm not sure about the answer to your question

Yahshua came in the flesh, but He lived in the spirit. He did not live in the flesh....if He did He would have sinned.

By being in the flesh, I speak of the Incarnation, which is literally enfleshment. Living according to the flesh, as St. Paul speaks, is to allow oneself to fall victim to the fallen world and the sin that has beset it as a disease.

To maintain that flesh and matter in itself is sinful is the heresy of the Gnostics.