the purpose of this forum? changing people?

[endure]

i dont doubt the quality and integrity of this forum at all.

but i believe it has been my experience that many people do come for reasons other than that of actually helping people, am i alone in this observation or beleif?

i mean, why do people go on and on and on trying to prove their theology and why are people so quick to make these long drawn out posts about why they beleive and even beyond that, why do people begin to laugh and call others weak or ignorant?

i mean, am i the only person that thinks some people have begun to use this place as a stage to display their own great knowledge or spirituality.

i think i have the right to ask this becuase i use to be the same way, i would go and look for discussions that i beleive i can have input to, and i make these really long and drawn out posts and post all these diffrent scriptures and even begin to declare that their arugments were weak, and pick out their problems and show why they were wrong. i mean i was looking for someone to prove wrong, and the focus was never on changing that persons beleifs but rather proving them wrong and being able to win the discussion. and thats how anger and emotion got into all of it.

i mean, i really thought i was doing it for someones good, but the truth is, if i was really interested in helping people and not just proving them wrong, i would have seen they were going to change and just left, but no, the moment they gave an argument i was not willing to not reply to them and show why they were wrong, i was not willing to not have the last word in, becuase then they would actually think they proved me wrong and i could not live with this. and it began to be apparent that i wasnt seeking anyones good, but rather my own fame.

i dont even talk like this way in real life! i never use half of the words and long detailed eloquent sentences i type here in real life!
but i do here becuase a part of me wants to be seen as intelligent.
im a totally diffrent person in real life than i am here...thats crasy.
but i come here and begin to put on my proffesor clothing and try to look like im smart.
and i dont even go into a debate looking to learn anything, i never do.
i only go to show why im right and teach everyone else.
thats messed up...

i mean, there are some people who you never see post anything unless it is them correcting someone else, they never say
"great post! that meant alot to me! thanks that really helped me! i really appreciate you"
no, becuase they dont want it to look like they needed anyone else to help them... man i used to like that, and part of me still is.

thats why i am trying so hard to stop debating, i dont want anything to do with it anymore ever. becuase i do not believe the focus is on helping anyone, but only proving who is right and who is wrong, and so what if your right and they are wrong... who really cares! it aint like we all dont have something wrong with us.
i mean, whoopdydo you have a degree can quote the entire bible and know more than me. and have been saved longer than me and know alot that i dont know...so what?
it aint like God is going to recognise you and point you out in heavon and ask you to give a teaching and applaud you for how much you know.

and ive learned something else too.

provers 11.13
"a faithful spirit concealeth the matter"
proverbs 12.23
"a prudent man concealeth knowledge"

i have found out through being exposed of my own pride and lack of knowledge, that men of true understanding and great knowledge are not found in the midst of people telling everyone everything they know just becuase someone is wrong. becuase you do learn over time that just becuase someone is wrong doesnt mean its time to correct them and just becuase you know something they dont doesnt mean you telling them will do them anygood. and that is what really matters.

i think it takes more knowledge and understanding to see someone who is wrong and see their is no reason to correct them, and you just go on. than to be able to post an entire seminar on why they are wrong.
i mean people who truely understand see people who are wrong all the time, its not like you seeing someone is wrong makes you specail, we all know people who are wrong.

im not posting this to expose anyone, but what do you all feel about this?

 

[WeakButHopeful]

Hi endure,

Well, I'm rather new (a couple weeks) to CF, and overall I am very happy I found it. Yes, I know what you mean, there are some posts that I have found a bit strident (shall we say). I try not to make mine like that but (for all I know) someone is reading this and saying "but you're one of the ones he meant!" Oh, and I do talk this way in real life (I'm a nerd).

But seriously, I do feel strongly about certain things but I've been a bit shy to start new topics on them since I'm a relative newbie. I have mainly just been replying with my opinion on other folks' questions or comments. But I like to think (???) that I would be capable of discussing them in an open way without trying to prove anyone wrong. I'd really like to know whether people think my ideas are too idealistic, or poorly thought out, or good but needing to be backed up by my own resources, or what. Like anyone else I've read books on Christianity and I might quote Bible verses to explain where my ideas are coming from, but I wouldn't be trying to "prove" anything. It's taken me until the age of 50 to start to get an idea of what Jesus might be wanting me to do (then again, maybe he wanted me to do it at 30 and I'm just catching on). So I've got nothing to be particularly proud of, except what we all can be proud of as children of God.

I hope this was a decent response to your post. I'll be interested to see what others think.

 

[endure]

yes i fully understand what your saying and i agree with you.
hehe i doubt your a nerd.
you seem like a nice person.

thankyou for reading my long post and even replying to it, thankyou very very much.
and oh, that was a wonderful response. i think you did grasp all that i was trying to say.
lee myers.

 

[Super Gnat]

Thanks a lot for this thread. This is something I need to think on.

 

[mesue]

i dont doubt the quality and integrity of this forum at all.

but i believe it has been my experience that many people do come for reasons other than that of actually helping people, am i alone in this observation or beleif?

i mean, why do people go on and on and on trying to prove their theology and why are people so quick to make these long drawn out posts about why they beleive and even beyond that, why do people begin to laugh and call others weak or ignorant?

i mean, am i the only person that thinks some people have begun to use this place as a stage to display their own great knowledge or spirituality.

i think i have the right to ask this becuase i use to be the same way, i would go and look for discussions that i beleive i can have input to, and i make these really long and drawn out posts and post all these diffrent scriptures and even begin to declare that their arugments were weak, and pick out their problems and show why they were wrong. i mean i was looking for someone to prove wrong, and the focus was never on changing that persons beleifs but rather proving them wrong and being able to win the discussion. and thats how anger and emotion got into all of it.

i mean, i really thought i was doing it for someones good, but the truth is, if i was really interested in helping people and not just proving them wrong, i would have seen they were going to change and just left, but no, the moment they gave an argument i was not willing to not reply to them and show why they were wrong, i was not willing to not have the last word in, becuase then they would actually think they proved me wrong and i could not live with this. and it began to be apparent that i wasnt seeking anyones good, but rather my own fame.

i dont even talk like this way in real life! i never use half of the words and long detailed eloquent sentences i type here in real life!
but i do here becuase a part of me wants to be seen as intelligent.
im a totally diffrent person in real life than i am here...thats crasy.
but i come here and begin to put on my proffesor clothing and try to look like im smart.
and i dont even go into a debate looking to learn anything, i never do.
i only go to show why im right and teach everyone else.
thats messed up...

i mean, there are some people who you never see post anything unless it is them correcting someone else, they never say
"great post! that meant alot to me! thanks that really helped me! i really appreciate you"
no, becuase they dont want it to look like they needed anyone else to help them... man i used to like that, and part of me still is.

thats why i am trying so hard to stop debating, i dont want anything to do with it anymore ever. becuase i do not believe the focus is on helping anyone, but only proving who is right and who is wrong, and so what if your right and they are wrong... who really cares! it aint like we all dont have something wrong with us.
i mean, whoopdydo you have a degree can quote the entire bible and know more than me. and have been saved longer than me and know alot that i dont know...so what?
it aint like God is going to recognise you and point you out in heavon and ask you to give a teaching and applaud you for how much you know.

and ive learned something else too.

provers 11.13
"a faithful spirit concealeth the matter"
proverbs 12.23
"a prudent man concealeth knowledge"

i have found out through being exposed of my own pride and lack of knowledge, that men of true understanding and great knowledge are not found in the midst of people telling everyone everything they know just becuase someone is wrong. becuase you do learn over time that just becuase someone is wrong doesnt mean its time to correct them and just becuase you know something they dont doesnt mean you telling them will do them anygood. and that is what really matters.

i think it takes more knowledge and understanding to see someone who is wrong and see their is no reason to correct them, and you just go on. than to be able to post an entire seminar on why they are wrong.
i mean people who truely understand see people who are wrong all the time, its not like you seeing someone is wrong makes you specail, we all know people who are wrong.

im not posting this to expose anyone, but what do you all feel about this?

i mean, why do people go on and on and on trying to prove their theology and why are people so quick to make these long drawn out posts

 

[endure]

.....
i dont think thats what i did...if i did im sorry.

im sorry it just took a bit to get it off my chest...

 

[admtaylor]

mesue just took a pot shot at you endure, just let it roll off your back. What you said had a lot of merit and you're right. I challenged someone to a debate a week ago. I'm regretting it. I almost want to pm that person and say, hey can we discuss this through pm's? I don't see the point in the debate thing either and fell into a trap of pride.

 

[LarrySmith]

*Warning Label*
(this is a long post )

but i believe it has been my experience that many people do come for reasons other than that of actually helping people, am i alone in this observation

i mean, why do people go on and on and on trying to prove their theology and why are people so quick to make these long drawn out posts

er...you mean like this one?

about why they beleive and even beyond that, why do people begin to laugh and call others weak or ignorant?

1)Because they claim they know a subject but get offended when they are proved wrong.
2)Because they claim to seek truth but scorn it when it comes to them,
3)Because they judge others but do the EXACT same things and even worse

i mean, am i the only person that thinks some people have begun to use this place as a stage to display their own great knowledge or spirituality.

i think i have the right to ask this becuase i use to be the same way,

Pardon me..did you say "USE to be the same way"?

i would go and look for discussions that i beleive i can have input to, and i make these really long and drawn out posts and post all these diffrent scriptures and even begin to declare that their arugments were weak, and pick out their problems and show why they were wrong. i mean i was looking for someone to prove wrong, and the focus was never on changing that persons beleifs but rather proving them wrong and being able to win the discussion. and thats how anger and emotion got into all of it.

That's an interesting confession. I can see now why you project these same motives onto others when they debate. I am not in this state. If you show me from scripture that I am wrong I will change. I seek the truth. Some think that love has to be wishy washy. It doesn't.

i mean, i really thought i was doing it for someones good, but the truth is, if i was really interested in helping people and not just proving them wrong, i would have seen they were going to change and just left, but no, the moment they gave an argument i was not willing to not reply to them and show why they were wrong, i was not willing to not have the last word in,

Are you speaking in the past tense here?

becuase then they would actually think they proved me wrong and i could not live with this. and it began to be apparent that i wasnt seeking anyones good, but rather my own fame.

i dont even talk like this way in real life! i never use half of the words and long detailed eloquent sentences i type here in real life!

I hope not.

but i do here becuase a part of me wants to be seen as intelligent.
im a totally diffrent person in real life than i am here...thats crasy.

I agree with this point

but i come here and begin to put on my proffesor clothing and try to look like im smart.
and i dont even go into a debate looking to learn anything, i never do.
i only go to show why im right and teach everyone else.
thats messed up...

That IS messed up. The problem is that you think everybody has this same issue. You project your problem onto them.

i mean, there are some people who you never see post anything unless it is them correcting someone else, they never say
"great post! that meant alot to me! thanks that really helped me! i really appreciate you"

I agree. That's why I'm quick to encourage those that are in the right place for it.

no, becuase they dont want it to look like they needed anyone else to help them... man i used to like that, and part of me still is.

thats why i am trying so hard to stop debating, i dont want anything to do with it anymore ever. becuase i do not believe the focus is on helping anyone, but only proving who is right and who is wrong, and so what if your right and they are wrong... who really cares! it aint like we all dont have something wrong with us.
i mean, whoopdydo you have a degree can quote the entire bible and know more than me. and have been saved longer than me and know alot that i dont know...so what?
it aint like God is going to recognise you and point you out in heavon and ask you to give a teaching and applaud you for how much you know.

and ive learned something else too.

provers 11.13
"a faithful spirit concealeth the matter"
proverbs 12.23
"a prudent man concealeth knowledge"

i have found out through being exposed of my own pride and lack of knowledge, that men of true understanding and great knowledge are not found in the midst of people telling everyone everything they know just becuase someone is wrong. becuase you do learn over time that just becuase someone is wrong doesnt mean its time to correct them and just becuase you know something they dont doesnt mean you telling them will do them anygood. and that is what really matters.

i think it takes more knowledge and understanding to see someone who is wrong and see their is no reason to correct them, and you just go on. than to be able to post an entire seminar on why they are wrong.
i mean people who truely understand see people who are wrong all the time, its not like you seeing someone is wrong makes you specail, we all know people who are wrong.

im not posting this to expose anyone, but what do you all feel about this?

I say that we do what the bible says.
"Rebuke before all those that sin that others seeing may fear.

I must confess this is a lonnng post. Most of it is from endure however. It seems his concern for this forum only applies to other people and not to himself. HE can get involved in a debate....but God forbid anyone else! He was a primary participant in a debate in sign's thread.
endure....walk what you talk. signofthefish's thread was going well until you and osmaker turned it into a debate. I then clarified some issues. lotar jumped in a shot his "the charismatic position is SO weak" arrow. He couldn't back up his claim with scripture however. Here's an example:

hi everyone!

i do not think myself a great teacher or anything, though i do want to be one one day.
but i do think i can clear somethings up if you dont mind reading the remainder of my post.

i agree with SAVEEVERYONE, for several diffrent reasons, but first of all id like to commend this person, GOOD JOB FOR TELLING THE TRUTH SO WELL!

ok.

1. is tongues for everyone?

as one person showed, the bible can seem to say that no they are not.
becuase of scriptures like 1 cor 12.7-11.
but it also directly says that anyone who simply believes CAN.
Mark 16.17
and these sighns SHALL follow them that BELIEVE: In my name shall they cast out devils; they SHALL speak with new tongues...

no one questions that a believers authority over the devil doesnt differ from any other christians, but most question that tongues are for all, but Jesus said it comes with believing and being saved, just as having authority over demons does. but just as having authority and casting out demons take excersise and experience and process or else it wont work fully, speaking in tongues is the same way.
if a christian cant heal the sick or cast out a devil, it isnt becuase they arent capable becuase Jesus said WHATEVER you ask for in faith YOU CAN HAVE regardless of whether or not you know your gifts.
it is becuase they havent grown to that level yet in the Lord and tongues are the same way.
but Jesus promised new tongues to those who beleive and are willing to go and get it, and that applies to any and all christians.
same as receiving anything from the Lord, you have to go and get it.
many many things are promised to believers that they never receive, becuase "you have not becuase you ask not".
it is very very possible to have something handed to you from God, yet you never ever receive it. thats what happened when paul rebuked a church for fighting for things that God told them they could have if theyd just ask, and ask for the right reasons, but the point is clear, it was given them, but they still had not received it. the same goes for tongues alot of the times.
as a person earlier showed, the bible says God gives diffrent gifts to diffrent people according to his will, and this is true, but IT IS NOT BECUASE SOME PEOPLE JUST CANT HAVE OTHER GIFTS, BUT ITS BECUASE GOD WORKS WITH YOU WHERE YOU ARE, AND GIVES YOU WHAT YOU CAN HANDLE. just becuase you have only been given one gift, doesnt mean you cant have more, its just that God cant give you more yet.
becuase it is clear that speaking in tongues is a gift that ANYONE can have. and the same goes for all of them, or why did he encourage everyone to prophesy? 1 cor 14. he desired them to prophecy period, he did not stop and say "well first you need to make sure God has given you that gift", he didnt even mention anything about that.
paul said to a certain church that he wished they all spoke in tongues, and it wasnt becuase he was ignorant that God knows best or was rebellious to the plan of God for them not to speak in tongues, but he knew they all could yet they had not received it yet, but he wished or desired for them to.

the person also quoted this verse to say not everyone can speak in tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:29-31
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way.

yes the obvious answer is no. but he wasnt implying to them that they simply could not, but rather he was saying to them that it is obvious that not everyone is doing these things, BUT HE TOLD THEM TO EAGERLY DESIRE THOSE GIFTS NONTHELESS!
he was simply emphasising that not everyone was doing great things, but then he encouraged them to seek those things, the greater gifts. or as the KJV puts it, the greatest gifts.
paul was encouraging them to seek after all the gifts.

it is absolutely apparent that paul himself worked in EVERY ONE OF THE GIFTS, as can be proven. there is no way anyone can say no one can have them all or that we are all destined to have just one.
the bible says you can do ALL things through Christ. that means if you are in a situation where you need to speak in tongues, then YOU can! if you are in a situation where you need to heal the sick, then YOU can! and on and on for ALL of the gifts.

but as i showed earlier, gifts is for ALL saved people, the deciding factor is your faith, not being chosen by God out from a group to speak in tongues.
no not everyone does it, but it isnt because they arent capable.

2. do you have to learn tongues or is it instant?

you do have to learn, but it is also instant.
you instantly gain the ability to speak in tongues, but you do have to progress and excersise that gift to full maturity, God has to show you how its used and how its not, just like a body part it becomes stronger and stronger and more effective as its used through practice.
when i first started speaking in tongues it was only a few sylables (sorry i think i spelled that) but as i did it more and more it was clear that it grew into a full more fluent language, and was no longer what appeared to be a constant repitition of a few words. just like a baby learnes to talk, it as a progression, and really nearly all things in the Lord are this way.
you have to learn how to pray more effectively, how to battle the enemy more effectively, how to use what God has given you effectively to its true and final power.
in hebrews 5 paul said you have to EXCERSISE YOUR SENSES.
almost everything you do in the Lord has to be mastered and excersised so you can go on and use it in its full potentail. just because you gain something instantly does not mean you have mastered it. you start as a babe in Christ and you have to grow and mature, and that goes for your spiritual body parts too.

yes its instant, but that does not mean you instantly know how to use it in the fullness of its potential or power.

3. is tongues giberish?

Has God used men to speak in tongues they did not know that happened to be the native tongues of people listening, so that it came out as a known language? certainly.
IS THIS THE GUIDLINE FOR ALL TONGUES? absolutely not, and it cannot be for several reasons.

just becuase it can be called giberish soley becuase it cant be understood by anyone listening, does not make it unbiblical or false at all, as can be easily proven.
1 cor 14.1-4
for he that speaketh in an UNKNOWN tongue speaketh NOT UNTO MEN, but unto God: FOR NO MAN UNDERSTANDETH HIM, howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

so it is clearly proven that just becuase no one listening understands it, (so it can be called giberish)
DOES NOT MEAN ITS WRONG, becuase he said sometimes NO MAN WILL UNDERSTAND. does that means its not a language? no. german sounds like gierish to me.
sometimes it is an UNKNOWN TONGUE, that means NO ONE KNOWS THAT LANGUAGE.
sometimes YOUR NOT SPEAKING TO ANY MAN ANYWAY, BUT YOUR SPEAKING TO GOD. thats why it does not always need to be interpreted, nor understood by someone listening, becuase it isnt for them anyway.
so just becuase you can call it giberish becuase its something that cant be understood BY YOU, does not make it wrong in the least.

1 cor 13.1
"though i speak with the tongues of angels..."

SOMETIMES PEOPLE CAN TALK IN ANGELIC TONGUES, how are you gonna have someone listening understand that?

i think that covered everything that was brought up, and i hope i helped someone.

and no "sighn of the fish" you wont go to hell for not speaking in tongues.
it only means you sadly never truely grew to maturity in the Lord and maximised the fullness of what he gave you.

i understand your questions maybe even fear or speculation, but be encouraged, it is a wonderful experience that doesnt have to be done in public, but maybe rather in the security of your secret place alone with God. it is a wonderful experience, that cannot help but propel your walk with God to knew levels.
it allows the holyspirit to step in and help you pray in a way that is beyond your ability and receive more from the Lord than you would have on your own. and it is also a wonderful way into the presence of the Lord.

I confess that at this point I became involved. His inability to deal with some of osmaker's inaccurate statements concerning grammer and syntax opened the door for my participation.
I have an issue with debates in this forum also.
The Mods do not however . I was corrected by one when I suggested that we limit posts to this forum to pure edification. After careful thought I see the wisdom of thier position. To forbid debate and discussion opens the door for error.
I say make the posts as long as you want. If they are too tiresome for you then skip them.

 

[endure]

Larry Smith
you said this

I must confess this is a lonnng post. Most of it is from endure however. It seems his concern for this forum only applies to other people and not to himself. HE can get involved in a debate....but God forbid anyone else!

i beleive anyone who reads my post ungrudgingly and honestly can easily see that was not my stance at all since most of my post was centered around me telling of my own faults and telling how i do not enjoy debating anymore, it is very evident.
the rest of what you said i will not bother to correct.
goodday to you.
and Godbless.
i think anyone who sees things with pure honesty can see whats going on here and no one needs to say much.

admtaylor
thankyou for your encouragement. and i fully agree with you that that can happen to anyone, it certainly did me.

 

[Godsgrace]

When I first found this forum I was so thankful. Now I do not post much anymore. It seems that when I had something to add or say, as maybe look at it in a different way than your only way.
The response to most of my posts was in a form of "not wanting to debate anymore". It was as if the very presence of my username brought on a spur of "attitude" about my posts. My response to a topic does not mean I am debating. It is only my response.

In conclusion, I have never in my life seen so much "DEBATE" on the TRUTH. It is truly sad. Can you honestly say to yourselves that GOD intended HIS teachings to be of a constant debate where the human mind is far more advanced than GOD is? Does not anyone realize that our true judgement (the one that should really matter to us as Christians) will be from GOD and only HIM? The Bible is his instruction for good living also. If we only choose a part of HIS teachings and not all of them; we are in a big error and do not really know HIM.

I am 53 years old. I have learned much in my life the hard way - without JESUS. But I still can share some of my experiences - the problem there is that if my postings is not in total agreement - I am considered a "DEBATOR" which I am not. I am a child of GOD and I will be learning until my time has expired. So to the young people of this or any forum; you will not know everything before your time has expired but most important is that you live each moment as your last and strive constantly to be ready for it. No one knows everything. GOD and only HE knows everything because HE is The ALPHA and The OMEGA - The Beginning and The End.

Respectfully
Janice

 

[mesue]

mesue just took a pot shot at you endure, just let it roll off your back. What you said had a lot of merit and you're right. I challenged someone to a debate a week ago. I'm regretting it. I almost want to pm that person and say, hey can we discuss this through pm's? I don't see the point in the debate thing either and fell into a trap of pride.

It wasn't a "Pot Shot" I'm sorry if you felt that way. the last statement was supposed to have additional quotes on it and for some reson the quote button works intermittently.
my only statement was . And still am.

 

[love&forgiveness]

i think when we only debate for our own desires and not to serve God that we could very well be sinning.
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

 

[LarrySmith]

i beleive anyone who reads my post ungrudgingly and honestly can easily see that was not my stance at all since most of my post was centered around me telling of my own faults and telling how i do not enjoy debating anymore, it is very evident.
the rest of what you said i will not bother to correct.
goodday to you.
and Godbless.
i think anyone who sees things with pure honesty can see whats going on here and no one needs to say much.

I agree. It's documented fact you were involved in the debate. What's sad about the whole thing is that you are justifiying yourself when it is evident that you are guilty of the same things you are judging others for. You even take a further step in said judgement by projecting YOUR motives onto others. I was born in the day..but not yesterday. Do you honestly think that you have arrived at some spiritual plane that I haven't attained? I don't debate for egotistical satisfaction young man. Furthermore I will not keep silent to feed someone else's illusion about what is spiritual and what's not.

When I first found this forum I was so thankful. Now I do not post much anymore. It seems that when I had something to add or say, as maybe look at it in a different way than your only way.
The response to most of my posts was in a form of "not wanting to debate anymore". It was as if the very presence of my username brought on a spur of "attitude" about my posts. My response to a topic does not mean I am debating. It is only my response.

Good point.

In conclusion, I have never in my life seen so much "DEBATE" on the TRUTH. It is truly sad.

I think it's sad that we can't come to an agreement based on God's word. If I'm shown a clear fact that disputes my belief...I change and adjust to it. I have done this numerous times in the past. I have changed as a result of much hotter debates than I have seen here. It's much more intense face to face. People tend to talk fast and spit when they speak when they are angry
As a matter of fact these forums are a PERFECT place to resolve these issues. Although I fear some people just aren't up to the challenge of having thier beliefs closely examined. When you try to do so they run away in defense or else try to take the offensive with pseudo-spiritual hyperbole. We will never agree on every point.
The scripture says in numerous places that the gospel would be corrupted in the last days. Jude exhorts us to CONTEND for the faith that was once delivered to the saints. We must STRIVE to enter into God's kingdom( Gr..strive=agon..the root for agony) Jesus spoke many things that some consired offensive...yet he was perfect.

Can you honestly say to yourselves that GOD intended HIS teachings to be of a constant debate where the human mind is far more advanced than GOD is? Does not anyone realize that our true judgement (the one that should really matter to us as Christians) will be from GOD and only HIM? The Bible is his instruction for good living also. If we only choose a part of HIS teachings and not all of them; we are in a big error and do not really know HIM.

And here lies the source of the problem. We don't agree on what God's word says. We don't agree on how it instructs us to live. What are we to do?
God never intended that the interpretation of his word would be corrupted the way it is today. He warned us by his Spirit that is would be so in the last days. The Spirit spoke EXPRESSEDLY that in the latter days men would depart from the faith and give heed to seducing spirits. teaching doctrines of devils....that it what we contend with.
We just can't agree on which of us has the doctrine of devils however. Hence the debate.

I am 53 years old. I have learned much in my life the hard way - without JESUS.

I give you the respect that one who is older than me deserves...that doesn't mean I agree with you 100% however. just 99.9%

But I still can share some of my experiences - the problem there is that if my postings is not in total agreement - I am considered a "DEBATOR" which I am not. I am a child of GOD and I will be learning until my time has expired.

Praise the Lord
I know how you feel sister.

So to the young people of this or any forum; you will not know everything before your time has expired but most important is that you live each moment as your last and strive constantly to be ready for it. No one knows everything. GOD and only HE knows everything because HE is The ALPHA and The OMEGA - The Beginning and The End.

Respectfully
Janice

The problem I have found with today's youth is that they have no respect for thier elders. They are un-teachable because they think they know everything. When one tries to instruct them they
resort to attacks against the person(i.e ad-hominen)

They don't understand that there is a chance that someone may come along who has spent years in the study of God's word. They enter a discussion and consider themselves equal to such a one when in fact they aren't. It isn't a position of pride when an elder man takes the upperhand in such discussions. It is the responsability of the younger to humble themselves because they haven't the experience or the knowledge to grasp the concepts that one who has truly suffered for years can understand. They even violate God's word by rebuking thier elders when they should entreat them. Yet they claim to live by God's word. This leaves THEM open for rebuke.
I accept correction from you sister. You are my elder. I humble myself and ask you..if there a chance that I had to defend my position? What if I felt to keep silent would have dishonored the Lord?

 

[endure]

Larry
im sorry that you did not notice that the purpose of my post was not to judge condemn or expose anyone and thats why i did not use names, because people being wrong wasnt the focus, being made right was the focus. and im sorry that you did not notice that i did not by anymeans claim to be diffrent myself on all occasions.
and im sorry, but i will not be drawn into a quarrel. no matter what remarks you make about me or my age or how you undermine me for anyreason or for what ever advantage you think you have on me.
you think what you want, ill just keep on walking untill i cant here you anymore.
we all understand that what you say has a level of truth to it. and i think most understand that what you say doesnt directly apply.

i just hope one day youll realise that you dont know it all and you are very wrong about alot that you believe, and even if you did know it all you still wouldnt have the right to rebuke anyone, simply becuase they are wrong.
its just that there is christianity, and then there is theology, and one of this not anywhere near as important as the other.
goodday, Godbless you.

 

[LarrySmith]

The scriputure shall plead my cause.

1 Tim 5:1
5:1 Rebuke NOT an elder, but INTREAT him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

This is Jesus's position on correction.

Rev 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


It was the same way under the old cov.:

Prov 9:8-9
8 Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
9 Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still;
teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.

Prov 17:10
10 A rebuke impresses a man of discernment
more than a hundred lashes a fool.

Prov 27:5
5 Better is open rebuke
than hidden love.

It seems that some misunderstand the statement I made about suffering...I never said youth didn't suffer. Quite the contrary...I myself have experiences unmentionable suffering since youth.

My point is this....it takes years for suffering to complete it's work and an elder person has had time to reap the benifit. The scripture backs this position. Don't be offended when you are corrected.

Prov 6:23
23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and REPROOFS OF INSTRUCTION ARE THE WAY OF LIFE.

Without correction and instruction we cannot be saved.

 

[Godsgrace]

Thank you so much fo your response. Now as for your question - 1st I wish I could figure out the Quote thing; it would make my replies much easier. Anyway, defending (your) position on GOD's Teachings. I don't know about you but before I can think of posting anything in a position of GOD's Word I have to pray on it. It then is not my position but GOD's position on HIS Word/Teaching. If I make a statement and it is or not excepted by anyone; I did my part and that was what I was suppose to do. I have not dishonored HIM because of what I said. I could only dishonor HIM by not speaking the truth or only speaking that part of HIS Word that seems to fit in at the moment. I don't know if I worded that in the way of understanding or not. And yes there have been many occasions where I have changed my thoughts on a teaching because I was corrected in the way I interpret the verse. But in being corrected I was shown that it is better understood when you just don't read 1 verse but the one or two before and after and sometimes it take the whole chapter.

An example - The LORD's prayer.
JESUS did not say this is "what" you pray but HE said this is "how" you pray. Now what do you think HE meant by that. If you take it word for word - line for line; now go one step further in the spirit. There is hidden the true way inwhich to pray. Read it - say it. What does it mean to you. No matter what words you use to pray you need to include how JESUS taught us how to pray. It is not good to leave any out or out of order in prayer.

I thank my FATHER for showing me after all of my own suffering through my wrongs what is true and what is good and the many hidden messages of HIS teaching by being in the presence with HIM in my daily classroom - a quiet place with HIM as my teacher. I learn more of how he dearly wants me to be this way than I do in any other way.

Larry, you are very wise in younger years than I but we both have to face the fact that we can only do what we can do and the rest is up to others. Wishy-washy teachings, through much prayer on it, is not for me. because GOD's position will not even be considered there. If anyone is offended, I can't really apologize because I would be "dishonorig GOD".

Love in CHRIST

Janice

 

[endure]

larry
dude its not your cause, and thats the whole issue really.

and if i may, ask you kindly stop replying in such manner in the post that i created, ok?
say what you think about the topic i posted, but stop saying what you think about what the other people said in their replies.
if you have something to say, make your own post and say it there and whoever wants to will go there and read it.
please.
godlbess you.

 

[Godsgrace]

Forums is the place where people can come together and talk. Most have never personaly met each other. I see the way someone is in real life by their behavior in there post. I thank LarrySmith for saying what he felt he had to say. It is true. I guess there is an "attitude" spur in his username too. It is a shame that you, endure, do not like correction from anyone. You are the one who shows it in yor own posts. Do you not know that you show your "attitude" toward people in your posts to their reply. I have seen other places where you jump right off the subject yourself - we all do in making examples and such. Why can't you just accept what is said and be done with it.

I have decided, and I know down inside of you that you will be happy; I will not post on any of your topics and will not post where you have recently replied. I do not believe I will miss much insight.

I have tried to be curtious to you. And as strange as it might sound, I don't seem to have problems with anyone else even younger than you. If you can choose the forum to get it off your chest so can I.

goodday as you say (which says a lot)

No one has ever said that they know it all, but you are the one who said that GOD doesn't know everything....I am done...

 

[love&forgiveness]

(1Co 12:25) That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

we are to be as one ,not divided one against the other ,if you have a problem with one another sort it out ,be forgiving of one another and move on ,united as one body in Christ.
i'm not having a go at anybody ,but just trying to make you realise that we are not as strong when we are divided ,it's only when we are together as one in Christ that we can be a true force to battle evil and help pull those out of sea of sin and bring them to the body of Christ so they may also be as one with us.
God bless.
paul

 

[endure]

...im sorry i would say something but i dont know how anymore, and none of my words have been heard correctly. i dont know anymore...

just, if you ever read this, please forgive me of whatever i did that offended you, and please allow me back into your fellowship, please forgive me...


well. goodday. i love you.

Lee.