The Purpose of the Torah

[HARK!]

I've heard it again and again, from Pastors and Sunday school teachers, at various churches, of various denominations, and from Christians in general; that the purpose of the Torah is to show us that we can't keep the Torah.

What does YHWH say?

(CLV) Dt 4:40
Hence you will observe His statutes and His instructions which I am enjoining on you today, that it may be well with you and your sons after you, and that you may prolong your days on the ground that Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you, all the days.

I could be mistaken; but it looks like YHWH just said that we should keep his instructions that it might go well with us. Go figure.

(CLV) Dt 5:16
Glorify your father and your mother, just as Yahweh your Elohim had instructed you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may be well with you on the ground which Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you.

Hmmm... It looks like he said it more than once.

(CLV) Dt 5:29
O that their heart might become this way with them: to fear Me and to observe all My instructions all the days, that it might be well with them and with their sons for the eon.

It seems like there is a pattern here.

(CLV) Dt 5:33
In all the way which Yahweh your Elohim had enjoined on you, you shall walk that you may live, and it may be well with you, and you may prolong your days in the land that you shall tenant.

I'm definitely seeing some sort of pattern.

(CLV) Dt 6:3
You will hear then, Israel, and you will observe to do it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply exceedingly, just as Yahweh Elohim of your fathers promised to give to you a land gushing with milk and honey.

Wait... what's this? He's telling us to do something? I'm confused here. Wouldn't that be works?

(CLV) Dt 6:18
You will do the upright and the good in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim that it may be well with you and that you may enter and tenant the good land about which Yahweh had sworn to your fathers,

There's that "do" word again! More that one Pastor has told me that we don't have to do anything; that Jesus finished the work on the cross.

(CLV) Dt 12:28
Observe and you will hear all these words which I am instructing you today, that it may be well with you and with your sons after you until the eon, for you shall do what is good and upright in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim.

There's that "do" word again; and this time he said forever.

Is it possible that I am to do what YHWH instructs me to do; that it might be well with me?

Should I trust in YHWH; or should I trust my Pastors?

 

[SkyWriting]

Should I trust in YHWH; or should I trust my Pastors?

I would never suggest you trust church leadership.
But the reason why they would say such things
is that Christians living under the new Covenant
believe that the old commandments have been
replaced by the New Covenant of Grace.

 

[sparow]

I've heard it again and again, from Pastors and Sunday school teachers, at various churches, of various denominations, and from Christians in general; that the purpose of the Torah is to show us that we can't keep the Torah.

What does YHWH say?

(CLV) Dt 4:40
Hence you will observe His statutes and His instructions which I am enjoining on you today, that it may be well with you and your sons after you, and that you may prolong your days on the ground that Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you, all the days.

I could be mistaken; but it looks like YHWH just said that we should keep his instructions that it might go well with us. Go figure.

(CLV) Dt 5:16
Glorify your father and your mother, just as Yahweh your Elohim had instructed you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may be well with you on the ground which Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you.

Hmmm... It looks like he said it more than once.

(CLV) Dt 5:29
O that their heart might become this way with them: to fear Me and to observe all My instructions all the days, that it might be well with them and with their sons for the eon.

It seems like there is a pattern here.

(CLV) Dt 5:33
In all the way which Yahweh your Elohim had enjoined on you, you shall walk that you may live, and it may be well with you, and you may prolong your days in the land that you shall tenant.

I'm definitely seeing some sort of pattern.

(CLV) Dt 6:3
You will hear then, Israel, and you will observe to do it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply exceedingly, just as Yahweh Elohim of your fathers promised to give to you a land gushing with milk and honey.

Wait... what's this? He's telling us to do something? I'm confused here. Wouldn't that be works?

(CLV) Dt 6:18
You will do the upright and the good in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim that it may be well with you and that you may enter and tenant the good land about which Yahweh had sworn to your fathers,

There's that "do" word again! More that one Pastor has told me that we don't have to do anything; that Jesus finished the work on the cross.

(CLV) Dt 12:28
Observe and you will hear all these words which I am instructing you today, that it may be well with you and with your sons after you until the eon, for you shall do what is good and upright in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim.

There's that "do" word again; and this time he said forever.

Is it possible that I am to do what YHWH instructs me to do; that it might be well with me?

Should I trust in YHWH; or should I trust my Pastors?

I am impressed but there is more; the Torah is the covenant that produces the King, the Kingdom, and the people who occupy it the House of Israel. Christians talk about the new covenant but the seem to have abrogated it; it is like having a cake and discarding it at the same time.

 

[disciple Clint]

I've heard it again and again, from Pastors and Sunday school teachers, at various churches, of various denominations, and from Christians in general; that the purpose of the Torah is to show us that we can't keep the Torah.

What does YHWH say?

(CLV) Dt 4:40
Hence you will observe His statutes and His instructions which I am enjoining on you today, that it may be well with you and your sons after you, and that you may prolong your days on the ground that Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you, all the days.

I could be mistaken; but it looks like YHWH just said that we should keep his instructions that it might go well with us. Go figure.

(CLV) Dt 5:16
Glorify your father and your mother, just as Yahweh your Elohim had instructed you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may be well with you on the ground which Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you.

Hmmm... It looks like he said it more than once.

(CLV) Dt 5:29
O that their heart might become this way with them: to fear Me and to observe all My instructions all the days, that it might be well with them and with their sons for the eon.

It seems like there is a pattern here.

(CLV) Dt 5:33
In all the way which Yahweh your Elohim had enjoined on you, you shall walk that you may live, and it may be well with you, and you may prolong your days in the land that you shall tenant.

I'm definitely seeing some sort of pattern.

(CLV) Dt 6:3
You will hear then, Israel, and you will observe to do it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply exceedingly, just as Yahweh Elohim of your fathers promised to give to you a land gushing with milk and honey.

Wait... what's this? He's telling us to do something? I'm confused here. Wouldn't that be works?

(CLV) Dt 6:18
You will do the upright and the good in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim that it may be well with you and that you may enter and tenant the good land about which Yahweh had sworn to your fathers,

There's that "do" word again! More that one Pastor has told me that we don't have to do anything; that Jesus finished the work on the cross.

(CLV) Dt 12:28
Observe and you will hear all these words which I am instructing you today, that it may be well with you and with your sons after you until the eon, for you shall do what is good and upright in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim.

There's that "do" word again; and this time he said forever.

Is it possible that I am to do what YHWH instructs me to do; that it might be well with me?

Should I trust in YHWH; or should I trust my Pastors?

Nothing wrong with following the 10 laws that God wrote in stone, no doubt that we will benefit by following those laws. What can be wrong is relying on them for salvation instead of relying on God's grace provided to those who have faith.

 

[HARK!]

I would never suggest you trust church leadership.
But the reason why they would say such things
is that Christians living under the new Covenant
believe that the old commandments have been
replaced by the New Covenant of Grace.

There is nothing new about חן.

YHWH said forever.

YHWH doesn't lie.

 

[HARK!]

Nothing wrong with following the 10 laws that God wrote in stone, no doubt that we will benefit by following those laws. What can be wrong is relying on them for salvation instead of relying on God's grace provided to those who have faith.

If we are a faithful bride; we will be obedient to our headship.

Some of these Pastors say that Yah's people no longer need to obey Yah's Torah.

Some say that Yah's people only need to obey the 10 commandments. Strangely, at the same time they will condemn homosexuality, an abomination that isn't in the 10; and it discounts the words of Yahshua, who said the the shema is the foremost precept.

They say that all we need to do is be faithful; but how can we be faithful, while in rebellion to the Torah?


(CLV) Mt 23:23
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are taking tithes from the mint and the dill and the cumin, and leave the weightier matters of the law (Torah), judging and mercy and faith. Now these it was binding for you to do, and not leave those.

Faith is the law. Those who are faithful are obedient to the law; and you won't find the word faith in the 10 commandments.

 

[klutedavid]

I've heard it again and again, from Pastors and Sunday school teachers, at various churches, of various denominations, and from Christians in general; that the purpose of the Torah is to show us that we can't keep the Torah.

What does YHWH say?

(CLV) Dt 4:40
Hence you will observe His statutes and His instructions which I am enjoining on you today, that it may be well with you and your sons after you, and that you may prolong your days on the ground that Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you, all the days.

I could be mistaken; but it looks like YHWH just said that we should keep his instructions that it might go well with us. Go figure.

(CLV) Dt 5:16
Glorify your father and your mother, just as Yahweh your Elohim had instructed you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may be well with you on the ground which Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you.

Hmmm... It looks like he said it more than once.

(CLV) Dt 5:29
O that their heart might become this way with them: to fear Me and to observe all My instructions all the days, that it might be well with them and with their sons for the eon.

It seems like there is a pattern here.

(CLV) Dt 5:33
In all the way which Yahweh your Elohim had enjoined on you, you shall walk that you may live, and it may be well with you, and you may prolong your days in the land that you shall tenant.

I'm definitely seeing some sort of pattern.

(CLV) Dt 6:3
You will hear then, Israel, and you will observe to do it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply exceedingly, just as Yahweh Elohim of your fathers promised to give to you a land gushing with milk and honey.

Wait... what's this? He's telling us to do something? I'm confused here. Wouldn't that be works?

(CLV) Dt 6:18
You will do the upright and the good in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim that it may be well with you and that you may enter and tenant the good land about which Yahweh had sworn to your fathers,

There's that "do" word again! More that one Pastor has told me that we don't have to do anything; that Jesus finished the work on the cross.

(CLV) Dt 12:28
Observe and you will hear all these words which I am instructing you today, that it may be well with you and with your sons after you until the eon, for you shall do what is good and upright in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim.

There's that "do" word again; and this time he said forever.

Is it possible that I am to do what YHWH instructs me to do; that it might be well with me?

Should I trust in YHWH; or should I trust my Pastors?

Do you want a long life on earth or a very long life in heaven?

Romans 10:11-13
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.”
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[HARK!]

Do you want a long life on earth or a very long life in heaven?

Romans 10:11-13
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.”
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

(CLV) Jn 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he writes concerning Me.

(CLV) Jn 5:47
Now if you are not believing his writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?"

(CLV) 1Jn 2:6
he who is saying that he is remaining in Him ought also himself to be walking according as He walks.

Yahshua walks in the Torah.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

James wrote when making distinction between the Mosaic Law and the Law of Liberty that those who judge with mercy will be judged with mercy, and those who judge without mercy shall be judged without mercy.

The law of Moses judges, and sentences everyone to death. This because if you break one point of the law, you are guilty of all of it according to James. The Law of Liberty speaks of forgiving others so you are forgiven, and not hypocritically imposing standards that you yourself cannot live up to.

The act of judging others according to a mosaic law ends up damning you who cannot live up to the whole standard. This is what the scriptures say regarding the Mosaic law, and the law that lives inside those who are born again by the Holy Spirit.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is nothing new about חן.
YHWH said forever.
YHWH doesn't lie.

But humans forever don't understand YHWH correctly. This is eternal.

 

[trophy33]

The purpose of Torah was to prepare Israel for the coming of Christ, simply said.

Saturday school teachers and many Sabbatarian churches of various denominations teach that its not obsolete after Christ or even that it has been expanded to non-Jewish followers, but thats against the teaching of Christianity:

"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."
Mt 11:13

"Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law...
So the law was our guardian until Christ came...
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."
Gal 3:23-25

"Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church decided...
It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things."
Acts 15:28

 

[SkyWriting]

Should I trust in YHWH; or should I trust my Pastors?

You can "do" things. But atheists can "do" those things as well.
Will they be saved?

 

[HARK!]

James wrote when making distinction between the Mosaic Law and the Law of Liberty that those who judge with mercy will be judged with mercy, and those who judge without mercy shall be judged without mercy.

There is no distinction. The law of liberty, is freedom not to forget, and to do the work.

(CLV) Ja 1:25
Now he who peers into the perfect law, that of freedom, and abides, not becoming a forgetful listener, but a doer of the work, this one will be happy in his doing.

It's nothing new.

Psalm 119
44 So shall I keep Your law continually, Forever and ever.
45 And I will walk at liberty,For I seek Your precepts.

The law of Moses judges, and sentences everyone to death. This because if you break one point of the law, you are guilty of all of it according to James. The Law of Liberty speaks of forgiving others so you are forgiven, and not hypocritically imposing standards that you yourself cannot live up to.

I'll have to trust in YHWH when he said that I can live up to it.

(CLV) Dt 30:10
when you hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe His instructions and His statutes, the ones written in this scroll of the law, once you return to Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul.

(CLV) Dt 30:11
For this instruction that I am enjoining on you today, it is neither too difficult for you, nor is it too far off.

(CLV) Dt 30:12
It is neither in the heavens for you to say: Who shall ascend to the heavens for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

(CLV) Dt 30:13
Nor is it across the sea for you to say: Who shall cross across the sea for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

(CLV) Dt 30:14
For the word is exceedingly near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, to do it.

(CLV) Dt 30:15
See! I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.

(CLV) Dt 30:16
If you should hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you today, to love Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in His ways and to observe His instructions, His statutes and His ordinances, then you will live and multiply, and Yahweh your Elohim will bless you in the land where you are entering to tenant it.

Here is how Paul says that we will be judged:

(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

Better judged than perished.

 

[Minister Monardo]

I am impressed but there is more; the Torah is the covenant that produces the King, the Kingdom, and the people who occupy it the House of Israel. Christians talk about the new covenant but the seem to have abrogated it; it is like having a cake and discarding it at the same time.

The covenant with David establishes the throne of righteousness, fulfilled by Messiah,
who was born into the house of David for that purpose.
There is no necessity for a king to fulfill the Torah, only a right spirit.
The Way of the Lord was established in the handing down of the Memorials
of Torah from generation to generation.
The Way of the Lord in the New Covenant is to receive the Holy Spirit by faith,
and walk in that Spirit, even as Abraham "obeyed His Voice". Genesis 26:5

 

[HARK!]

There is no necessity for a king to fulfill the Torah

Can you show me this in scripture?

 

[HARK!]

You can "do" things. But atheists can "do" those things as well.
Will they be saved?

I haven't seen an Atheist yet, who gets up every morning and recites the Shema, then goes on with his day in obedience to YHWH's word. If he did; then he wouldn't be an Atheist.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Can you show me this in scripture?

1 Samuel 8:
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah,
5 and said to him, “Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways.
Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.”
6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.”
So Samuel prayed to the Lord.
7 And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you;
for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that
I should not reign over them.
Deuteronomy 17 does provide guidelines for how a king should behave,
which became a list of Torah violations by Solomon.
Again, the Torah places no demand for a king in order to fulfill it's requirements.

 

[HARK!]

1 Samuel 8:
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah,
5 and said to him, “Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways.
Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.”
6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.”
So Samuel prayed to the Lord.
7 And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you;
for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that
I should not reign over them.
Deuteronomy 17 does provide guidelines for how a king should behave,
which became a list of Torah violations by Solomon.
Again, the Torah places no demand for a king in order to fulfill it's requirements.

No more than anyone else. We are all called to fulfill the Torah. If my King hadn't fulfilled the Torah; he wouldn't be my King.

 

[Minister Monardo]

No more than anyone else. We are all called to fulfill the Torah. If my King hadn't fulfilled the Torah; he wouldn't be my King.

If you live in a nation that is under the reign of a king, then he is your king, regardless
of whether or not he keeps Torah.
1 Peter 2:
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake,
whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers
and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance
of foolish men—
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bond servants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

If you feel that obeying your king will result in an offense to God's Law, then
you must follow your conscience and accept the consequences of rejecting
the king's statutes.
This is the perfect Law of liberty, and a witness to the One True King.

 

[HARK!]

If you live in a nation that is under the reign of a king, then he is your king, regardless
of whether or not he keeps Torah.

I have no King but King Yahshua. Come the AntiChrist, I will say the same.