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The Purpose of the Crucifixion and why it had to be.

bling

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Was God angry with Adam Eve for starting to have the forbidden knowledge of good and evil which only God had (Genesis 3:22)?
Of course, God was angry with Adam and Eve disobeying Him, as you would be with your young children if they played in the street after you told them not to.

Is knowledge in and of itself “bad”?

To begin with Adam and Eve (or any of us) did not need a ton of ways to sin, which the tree of knowledge of good and evil provided. Knowledge of what is evil provides lots of ways to sin, Eve luster after the fruit, did not seek counselling, was selfish, stole what she was not to have, was not helping Adam and disobeyed God, but the only sin was eating the fruit.

Having knowledge of all the evil, helps us realize how helpless and needy we really are, so we can and should humbly accept God’s help (charity).

Is entering the kingdom the only goal? Don't we need to grow in knowledge of God?
We are talking about the very first step while we are all kidnappers of God’s children. Once we freely run to the Kingdom, we can then be showered with gifts, this is like the prodigal son turning toward home, but it is only after the prodigal son gets to the father he is showered with gifts.

So humans kidnapped themselves away from God?
Would you prefer to have God as the kidnapper?

From birth we are innocent children of God, but along the way we mature and squelch that innocent child, to do our own selfish thing. As mature adults we are criminals stealing God’s gifts (like the prodigal son).

We might like to blame: satan, Adam & Eve, sin, evil in the world and other bad people, for keeping an innocent child from entering the Kingdom to be with God, but it is ourselves. Who do you blame for keeping you away from God for so long to begin with?
 
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Si_monfaith

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Of course, God was angry with Adam and Eve disobeying Him, as you would be with your young children if they played in the street after you told them not to.

Is knowledge in and of itself “bad”?

To begin with Adam and Eve (or any of us) did not need a ton of ways to sin, which the tree of knowledge of good and evil provided. Knowledge of what is evil provides lots of ways to sin, Eve luster after the fruit, did not seek counselling, was selfish, stole what she was not to have, was not helping Adam and disobeyed God, but the only sin was eating the fruit.

Having knowledge of all the evil, helps us realize how helpless and needy we really are, so we can and should humbly accept God’s help (charity).


We are talking about the very first step while we are all kidnappers of God’s children. Once we freely run to the Kingdom, we can then be showered with gifts, this is like the prodigal son turning toward home, but it is only after the prodigal son gets to the father he is showered with gifts.


Would you prefer to have God as the kidnapper?

From birth we are innocent children of God, but along the way we mature and squelch that innocent child, to do our own selfish thing. As mature adults we are criminals stealing God’s gifts (like the prodigal son).

We might like to blame: satan, Adam & Eve, sin, evil in the world and other bad people, for keeping an innocent child from entering the Kingdom to be with God, but it is ourselves. Who do you blame for keeping you away from God for so long to begin with?

Is knowledge in and of itself “bad”?

If knowledge of good and evil (kge) which only God had (Genesis3:22) because He alone could live in conformity to it, was ok, why did He prohibit it for humans?

Can humans conform to it in order to earn God's favor? Aren't humans advised to live by faith in Christ who alone has earned God's favor for them by His perfect conformance to the kge?

We are talking about the very first step while we are all kidnappers of God’s children.

Isn't a study of atonement meant for those inside & to grow in faith?

Who do you blame for keeping you away from God for so long to begin with?

Why did God create humans whom He knew beforehand wouldn't believe in His Son?
 
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bling

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If knowledge of good and evil (kge) which only God had (Genesis3:22) because He alone could live in conformity to it, was ok, why did He prohibit it for humans?
It all has to do with helping them and us with our objective.

There is a tremendous amount of information we can learn from the Adam and Eve story, but one thing needs to be taught early on. You have heard and maybe thought yourself: “How could a Loving God allow this “tragedy” to happen”? In a way we are asking: “Why did God not provide us with heaven on earth (the perfect Garden) with no limited resources, no death, no one hurting, no weeds, no bad bugs, the perfect spouse made just for us, being able to walk with God every day, and a wonderful hobby.” God did provide this “human ideal” situation for the first humans, with some minor exceptions: the tree of knowledge, one way to sin and satan roaming around, all of which should have been easy for humans to handle, especially humans with the best minds and body possible and raised to adulthood (programmed) by the very best parent.

If Adam and Eve had knowledge of good and evil there would be tons of ways for them to sin and sin in ways that were not obvious to other humans. Adam and Eve did not need tons of ways to sin, but just one way they would sin, given they lacked the one thing need, which God could not give them instinctively: “Godly type Love”.

The tree also needed to be something humans would desire: “knowledge”, since if it just taught you how to spit 10 ft., Eve would not have cared about it. They lacked knowledge of good and evil, but did not need it.

After we all obtained knowledge of good and evil there are tons of ways to sin and thus we have obvious need for God’s help and mercy, so hopefully we will seek and trust God’s Love to accept His Love. When we accept God’s Love in the form of forgiveness for the unbelievable huge debt sin creates we will obtain the main thing we need and that is Godly type Love (…he who is forgiven much Loves much…) Luke 7.
Can humans conform to it in order to earn God's favor? Aren't humans advised to live by faith in Christ who alone has earned God's favor for them by His perfect conformance to the kge?
We do not “earn” anything (did the prodigal son earn his father’s favor by returning home or did the father always have this Love for the son?). All we can “do” is trust (have faith) in God’s existing Love to humbly accept His charity.

Isn't a study of atonement meant for those inside & to grow in faith?
Atonement is a huge topic I could write a book on, but it is easy to experience atonement for yourself.

As you grow in Love with Christ you become more empathetic for Him, so as you read and meditate on Christ, you feel what He felt, you become one with Him like He is one with the Father. You can experience Christ’s pain on the cross, wanting to take His place, but also realizing you could not stay there willingly for three hours. You are cut to the heart (like those in Acts 2: 37) and cry out for help. This becomes the worst experience you can experience and still live (or truly a just/fair discipling for your sins). The only thing that can get you through the remembrance of the cross is the fact the greatest Love is also seen at the cross.

Why did God create humans whom He knew beforehand wouldn't believe in His Son?
I think a Explained this to you already but answer me this:

First: Explain to me "how" God could know the autonomous free will choices of a person who will never exist, because I only know how God at the beginning of time would know perfectly every autonomous free will choice a person did make in the future?

Do you believe time is most likely relative (are GPS satellites have to have clocks to take into consideration times relativeness to their speed)?

What would keep time from being completely relative for God?

Could God have created time for man?

Could God be outside of time?

How would you define God being: “Outside of time’s limitations”?

If something has happened and thus became part of history, could that history be changed by God? This is not saying: God could not create a second Adam and Eve, but God could not eliminate the fact there was a previous Adam and Eve.

Could God at the end of time know historically all what happened throughout man’s history from the beginning of time?

If God is outside of time, what would keep God from knowing simultaneously,

what was going on at the end of time and the beginning of time?

God in His communication with man sometimes speak on man’s level and understanding, like talking about the sun setting or the four corners of earth, would also suggest God being throughout time simultaneously would not have to be presented in God’s conversation with man, like the rotation of a round earth would not need to be in the conversation with man?

If God is outside of time, what would keep God’s presence at the end of time from communicating back to Himself at the beginning of time all the history of all humans?

If God is outside of time, would He know from the beginning of time all the history of every human who will ever live?

Does just knowing the history of a person’s actions, mean that those actions cannot be autonomous free will actions? (Please provide any science or logic showing they could not be free will actions, since the secular world would say they could be and do not use that as a “proof” against free will.)

In the “Space Time Continuum” would God be able to simultaneously know what is happening in our world and in a Galaxy a billion light years away?
 
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Si_monfaith

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It all has to do with helping them and us with our objective.

There is a tremendous amount of information we can learn from the Adam and Eve story, but one thing needs to be taught early on. You have heard and maybe thought yourself: “How could a Loving God allow this “tragedy” to happen”? In a way we are asking: “Why did God not provide us with heaven on earth (the perfect Garden) with no limited resources, no death, no one hurting, no weeds, no bad bugs, the perfect spouse made just for us, being able to walk with God every day, and a wonderful hobby.” God did provide this “human ideal” situation for the first humans, with some minor exceptions: the tree of knowledge, one way to sin and satan roaming around, all of which should have been easy for humans to handle, especially humans with the best minds and body possible and raised to adulthood (programmed) by the very best parent.

If Adam and Eve had knowledge of good and evil there would be tons of ways for them to sin and sin in ways that were not obvious to other humans. Adam and Eve did not need tons of ways to sin, but just one way they would sin, given they lacked the one thing need, which God could not give them instinctively: “Godly type Love”.

The tree also needed to be something humans would desire: “knowledge”, since if it just taught you how to spit 10 ft., Eve would not have cared about it. They lacked knowledge of good and evil, but did not need it.

After we all obtained knowledge of good and evil there are tons of ways to sin and thus we have obvious need for God’s help and mercy, so hopefully we will seek and trust God’s Love to accept His Love. When we accept God’s Love in the form of forgiveness for the unbelievable huge debt sin creates we will obtain the main thing we need and that is Godly type Love (…he who is forgiven much Loves much…) Luke 7.

We do not “earn” anything (did the prodigal son earn his father’s favor by returning home or did the father always have this Love for the son?). All we can “do” is trust (have faith) in God’s existing Love to humbly accept His charity.


Atonement is a huge topic I could write a book on, but it is easy to experience atonement for yourself.

As you grow in Love with Christ you become more empathetic for Him, so as you read and meditate on Christ, you feel what He felt, you become one with Him like He is one with the Father. You can experience Christ’s pain on the cross, wanting to take His place, but also realizing you could not stay there willingly for three hours. You are cut to the heart (like those in Acts 2: 37) and cry out for help. This becomes the worst experience you can experience and still live (or truly a just/fair discipling for your sins). The only thing that can get you through the remembrance of the cross is the fact the greatest Love is also seen at the cross.


I think a Explained this to you already but answer me this:

First: Explain to me "how" God could know the autonomous free will choices of a person who will never exist, because I only know how God at the beginning of time would know perfectly every autonomous free will choice a person did make in the future?

Do you believe time is most likely relative (are GPS satellites have to have clocks to take into consideration times relativeness to their speed)?

What would keep time from being completely relative for God?

Could God have created time for man?

Could God be outside of time?

How would you define God being: “Outside of time’s limitations”?

If something has happened and thus became part of history, could that history be changed by God? This is not saying: God could not create a second Adam and Eve, but God could not eliminate the fact there was a previous Adam and Eve.

Could God at the end of time know historically all what happened throughout man’s history from the beginning of time?

If God is outside of time, what would keep God from knowing simultaneously,

what was going on at the end of time and the beginning of time?

God in His communication with man sometimes speak on man’s level and understanding, like talking about the sun setting or the four corners of earth, would also suggest God being throughout time simultaneously would not have to be presented in God’s conversation with man, like the rotation of a round earth would not need to be in the conversation with man?

If God is outside of time, what would keep God’s presence at the end of time from communicating back to Himself at the beginning of time all the history of all humans?

If God is outside of time, would He know from the beginning of time all the history of every human who will ever live?

Does just knowing the history of a person’s actions, mean that those actions cannot be autonomous free will actions? (Please provide any science or logic showing they could not be free will actions, since the secular world would say they could be and do not use that as a “proof” against free will.)

In the “Space Time Continuum” would God be able to simultaneously know what is happening in our world and in a Galaxy a billion light years away?

After we all obtained knowledge of good and evil there are tons of ways to sin and thus we have obvious need for God’s help and mercy
So you mean to say because Adam Eve acquired the forbidden knowledge of good & evil, we learn to trust in Christ's perfect good works to please God & forsake trying to please God by knowing good from evil?

God’s existing Love to humbly accept His charity

Does God show us favor & love only for the sake of Jesus who alone was morally perfect?

First: Explain to me "how" God could know the autonomous free will choices of a person who will never exist,

Ephesians 1:4: "he (God) hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world (before the creation of time)".

Are you an open theist who denies God's eternal existence & exhaustive foreknowledge as per the above verse?
 
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bling

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So you mean to say because Adam Eve acquired the forbidden knowledge of good & evil, we learn to trust in Christ's perfect good works to please God & forsake trying to please God by knowing good from evil?
NO?? The law on our hearts (knowledge of good and evil) tells us how bad we really are and, in our conscience, (at least for a while) we are burdened by our previous actions which hurt others. Nothing can truly relieve that burden except Deity. This “knowledge” gives us a huge incentive to seek God’s help.

Does God show us favor & love only for the sake of Jesus who alone was morally perfect?
NO?? Like the Father in the prodigal son story, God loves everyone.
Ephesians 1:4: "he (God) hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world (before the creation of time)".

Are you an open theist who denies God's eternal existence & exhaustive foreknowledge as per the above verse?
I am not Open Theist!

Could it be: “God chose to save all those who accepted His charity”, before anything was done concerning humans and still be in keeping with Ephesians 1:4?
 
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