The purpose of "Purpose of existence"

[mulimulix]

My question to you is why we need a purpose for existing. I hear it time and time again from Christians (and other religious people) something along the lines of "But if there is no creator, what is the purpose of our existence?" I don't believe in a creator and I don't see a need for a purpose. Well, actually, before I go into that, I would also like a definition of what "Purpose for existence" actually is, and then I can go into detail what my position is.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

"Purpose for Existence" can be as simple as why you get out of bed in the morning or it can be something larger like what happens when we die.

I would assume you likely have ascribed some purpose to your life, whether it is related to God or not. Do you have reasons to get out of bed in the morning, reasons to love life and reasons for wanting to keep on living?

You likely don't believe in an afterlife (which is based in faith, not evidence) so your purposes likely pertain more to a materialistic world. But I assume you yourself have given yourself a purpose, whether you're aware of it or not.

Everyone feels they have a purpose; if you didn't have a purpose you just wouldn't do anything. People who feel they don't have a purpose are generally classified as psychologically depressed.

What purpose have you ascribed to your life?

 

[elman]

My question to you is why we need a purpose for existing. I hear it time and time again from Christians (and other religious people) something along the lines of "But if there is no creator, what is the purpose of our existence?" I don't believe in a creator and I don't see a need for a purpose. Well, actually, before I go into that, I would also like a definition of what "Purpose for existence" actually is, and then I can go into detail what my position is.

Are you saying you prefer your life ultimately be meaningless and your destiny simply be oblivion? If your life has only the purpose you assign it--collecting stamps or whatever, that is what I refer to as ultimately meaningless. If however your life is for the purpose of your becoming a loving being and eventually being able to exist with the Creator then you exist for a reason other than simply a random result of nature.

 

[drich0150]

I don't believe in a creator and I don't see a need for a purpose. Well, actually, before I go into that, I would also like a definition of what "Purpose for existence" actually is, and then I can go into detail what my position is.

If there is no creator there can not be a purpose.. If this is the case for you then why take the time to explain anything?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

If there is no creator there can not be a purpose.. If this is the case for you then why take the time to explain anything?

Why do you assume there is no purpose apart from a creator?

 

[salida]

The purpose for christians is to become more christ like and serve God's purpose in this world. Thus, this world is a dressing room to prepare for heaven.

 

[Paxton25]

My question to you is why we need a purpose for existing. I hear it time and time again from Christians (and other religious people) something along the lines of "But if there is no creator, what is the purpose of our existence?" I don't believe in a creator and I don't see a need for a purpose. Well, actually, before I go into that, I would also like a definition of what "Purpose for existence" actually is, and then I can go into detail what my position is.

Without a sense of purpose, you will probably become a hedonist (seeker of pleasure and avoider of pain) and/or become horribly depressed and could die a meaningless death like Heath Ledger, the lead singer from INXS, Elvis, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Kurt Cobain, etc.

''God has set eternity in our hearts.'' That's from the book of Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament. Give it read if you want to hear from the man that had it all, did it all, and almost lost it all. He reflects on what in life was truly satisfying. His name was King Solomon.

 

[elman]

Why do you assume there is no purpose apart from a creator?

It is not there is no purpose. It is there is no purpose other than the mundane purpose you can create and if there is no creator that had a purpose for creating you, then after you are deceased, it will no longer matter to you what purpose you came up with because nothing will matter to you at that point.

 

[drich0150]

Why do you assume there is no purpose apart from a creator?

I am simply reflecting the OP's logic back to him.

In that if He truly believe in His own opening statement then why address this issue?

Honestly, i don't personally have an opinion one way or another, of the purposes man has given himself for this life.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

It is not there is no purpose. It is there is no purpose other than the mundane purpose you can create and if there is no creator that had a purpose for creating you, then after you are deceased, it will no longer matter to you what purpose you came up with because nothing will matter to you at that point.

Why do you assume that any purpose in life, apart from believing in a creator is "mundane"? This seems to be rather short sighted and theocentric IMO.

 

[elman]

Why do you assume that any purpose in life, apart from believing in a creator is "mundane"? This seems to be rather short sighted and theocentric IMO.

I don't believe any purpose in life apart from believing in a Creator is mundane. It is not about mental acceptance of the possibility of a Creator that I am talking about. If there is a Creator who created us for the purpose of becoming loving beings, then becoming a loving being would not be mundane. However any purpose that was not about becoming a loving being or being a loving being would be ultimately mundane, because it would not survive physical death.

 

[mulimulix]

"Purpose for Existence" can be as simple as why you get out of bed in the morning or it can be something larger like what happens when we die.

I would assume you likely have ascribed some purpose to your life, whether it is related to God or not. Do you have reasons to get out of bed in the morning, reasons to love life and reasons for wanting to keep on living?

You likely don't believe in an afterlife (which is based in faith, not evidence) so your purposes likely pertain more to a materialistic world. But I assume you yourself have given yourself a purpose, whether you're aware of it or not.

Everyone feels they have a purpose; if you didn't have a purpose you just wouldn't do anything. People who feel they don't have a purpose are generally classified as psychologically depressed.

What purpose have you ascribed to your life?

This is true. The purpose I have in my life is that I have friends and family and I enjoy (for the most part) life. This is the purpose I see in my life, without the need for a god.

Are you saying you prefer your life ultimately be meaningless and your destiny simply be oblivion? If your life has only the purpose you assign it--collecting stamps or whatever, that is what I refer to as ultimately meaningless. If however your life is for the purpose of your becoming a loving being and eventually being able to exist with the Creator then you exist for a reason other than simply a random result of nature.

I see life without god not meaningless. My meaning, and indeed all other people's meaning, is to make the lives of others better; whether it be curing cancer or simply getting a job to keep the economy going.

The point about existing with a creator instead of a 'random result of nature' is denial if this is the reason you believe in god. It is one thing to think we don't have a purpose without god but to then believe in god not for the truth about our existence, but for the comfort in which it ensues, is the definition of denial.

If there is no creator there can not be a purpose.. If this is the case for you then why take the time to explain anything?

See above

Without a sense of purpose, you will probably become a hedonist (seeker of pleasure and avoider of pain) and/or become horribly depressed and could die a meaningless death like Heath Ledger, the lead singer from INXS, Elvis, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Kurt Cobain, etc.

''God has set eternity in our hearts.'' That's from the book of Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament. Give it read if you want to hear from the man that had it all, did it all, and almost lost it all. He reflects on what in life was truly satisfying. His name was King Solomon.

"Probably become a hedonist". Lol, where do you get that from? If you define purpose as the purpose Christians get from god (which a lot of Christians do), then you could not be more wrong. All of my friends are atheists, too, and none of them are depressed.

 

[elman]

=mulimulix;56816858]

I see life without god not meaningless. My meaning, and indeed all other people's meaning, is to make the lives of others better; whether it be curing cancer or simply getting a job to keep the economy going.

I agree with your meaning, and I think if there is a Creator, He also agrees with it. However if there is no Creator, what meaning will your life have after you are dead--or after humanity is extinct?

The point about existing with a creator instead of a 'random result of nature' is denial if this is the reason you believe in god. It is one thing to think we don't have a purpose without god but to then believe in god not for the truth about our existence, but for the comfort in which it ensues, is the definition of denial.

You assume God does not exist. I assume He does. Neither of us know which is truth. I don't make my assumption just for the comfort and hope it provides, but that would be a good reason for the assumption. I make the assumption I do, because it seems more reasonable to me, that we exist in all our complexity, by intelligent design, rather than simply accidents of nature.

 

[mulimulix]

I agree with your meaning, and I think if there is a Creator, He also agrees with it. However if there is no Creator, what meaning will your life have after you are dead--or after humanity is extinct?

But this is my original question! Why do we need a purpose after we are dead? I don't believe it is necessary to have this 'Supernatural meaning' when we will likely have a meaning in the history of mankind. If it weren't for the efforts of people who leave little legacy when they die, the world would be a very different place. What I mean by this is that people who grow up, get a desk job and then die may not appear to have had a significant meaning for the time they were alive, but the combined efforts of millions of people like him create a better world for everyone during and after his lifetime; this is an unselfish and reasonable way of finding 'Meaning' in our lives without the need for a creator.

 

[elman]

But this is my original question! Why do we need a purpose after we are dead? I don't believe it is necessary to have this 'Supernatural meaning' when we will likely have a meaning in the history of mankind. If it weren't for the efforts of people who leave little legacy when they die, the world would be a very different place. What I mean by this is that people who grow up, get a desk job and then die may not appear to have had a significant meaning for the time they were alive, but the combined efforts of millions of people like him create a better world for everyone during and after his lifetime; this is an unselfish and reasonable way of finding 'Meaning' in our lives without the need for a creator.

A meaning in the history of mankind is a temporary meaning. If there is no Creator, what will be your meaning in the history of mankind after mankind becomes extinct? And when you are dead you will have no knowledge of such meaning. It is not really a question of needing a purpose. We either have a purpose for being here or not. If there is no Creator, then we have no purpose for being ultimately in the long view. Eventually it will matter to no one that you and I existed. The meaning you found will not last.

 

[mulimulix]

A meaning in the history of mankind is a temporary meaning. If there is no Creator, what will be your meaning in the history of mankind after mankind becomes extinct? And when you are dead you will have no knowledge of such meaning. It is not really a question of needing a purpose. We either have a purpose for being here or not. If there is no Creator, then we have no purpose for being ultimately in the long view. Eventually it will matter to no one that you and I existed. The meaning you found will not last.

Ok, so what's the problem? Why is this meaning so necessary?

 

[elman]

Ok, so what's the problem? Why is this meaning so necessary?

It is not if you are content with no ultimate meaning and no hope of destiny other than meaningless oblivion. I am not content with that, and that does not seem to me to be a reasonable assumption.

 

[aiki]

Life without meaning is, well, meaningless. Life without purpose is...purposeless. It is quite impossible to live a fulfilling, joyful life when one truly believes life is meaningless and purposeless. Those few souls who have tried inevitably testified to the utter futility and unhappiness of their attempt.

If God does not exist and life is therefore without objective purpose or meaning, then what purpose and meaning people may give themselves is only an illusion, a subjective delusion that doesn't actually alter the objective reality of life's purposelessness and meaninglessness.

Dr. William Lane Craig comments:

"The only way most people who deny purpose in life live happily is either by making up some purpose -- which amounts to self-delusion...-- or by not carrying their view to its logical conclusions...Since there is no objective purpose to human life (assuming the atheist's claim to be true) none of our pursuits has any objective significance, however important or dear they may seem to us subjectively. They're no more significant than shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic."
(pg. 44, 45 - "On Guard" by William Lane Craig. Parenthetical comment mine.)

Selah.

 

[bling]

Some of us would enjoy having a huge objective and quest worthy of dedicating our lives to.
I like your objective and it fits in with Christianity.

If your objective is for personal satisfaction and because you value others; could you object to others wanting to hurt themselves, others, animals and the earth for their personal satisfaction and placing no value in other people?

What would be the greatest objective you could imagine and would you like to have that objective?

 

[mulimulix]

It is not if you are content with no ultimate meaning and no hope of destiny other than meaningless oblivion. I am not content with that, and that does not seem to me to be a reasonable assumption.

But, see, in my position, as I said earlier, my purpose is to help humanity go on in whatever way I can. And if I die, so be it; I wouldn't know the meaningless of life after humans unless I was there to see it. What is important is now, not in however many years when humans die out.

Life without meaning is, well, meaningless. Life without purpose is...purposeless. It is quite impossible to live a fulfilling, joyful life when one truly believes life is meaningless and purposeless. Those few souls who have tried inevitably testified to the utter futility and unhappiness of their attempt.

If God does not exist and life is therefore without objective purpose or meaning, then what purpose and meaning people may give themselves is only an illusion, a subjective delusion that doesn't actually alter the objective reality of life's purposelessness and meaninglessness.

Dr. William Lane Craig comments:

"The only way most people who deny purpose in life live happily is either by making up some purpose -- which amounts to self-delusion...-- or by not carrying their view to its logical conclusions...Since there is no objective purpose to human life (assuming the atheist's claim to be true) none of our pursuits has any objective significance, however important or dear they may seem to us subjectively. They're no more significant than shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic."
(pg. 44, 45 - "On Guard" by William Lane Craig. Parenthetical comment mine.)

Selah.

Similar to above. The problem here is that if you don't believe in a god and don't see a purpose in life, then believing in god for that purpose would be self-delusion too. And I'm sure there are many more people (I know some) who believe in a god for this reason that atheists alive today.

Some of us would enjoy having a huge objective and quest worthy of dedicating our lives to.
I like your objective and it fits in with Christianity.

If your objective is for personal satisfaction and because you value others; could you object to others wanting to hurt themselves, others, animals and the earth for their personal satisfaction and placing no value in other people?

What would be the greatest objective you could imagine and would you like to have that objective?

I said earlier that my purpose is not for personal satisfaction (I believe Christianity promotes this). My purpose is to help humanity, as said above. To answer your end question, I suppose it would be some way to make all humans have a good standard of living without any repercussions, but of course, this is almost impossible.