The purpose of church

[CaseyB]

For the first time in over a decade, the idea of being a Christian has become a real possibility to me. I hope that if I do decide to go down this path, that I can find a church that matches my values and beliefs as I haven't in the past and that has been a major issue in why I turned away from it in the first place. When I truly felt closest to God, it was not in a church, it was on the streets of Tijuana, Mexico spreading God's love to the less fortunate there, and being able to really drown out the preaching of right and wrong that I found in church and become close to God in a more personal way. Maybe I don't quite understand the purpose of church. I always thought that it should be a place to go to feel closer to God, but it seems in practice to be more like a place to go learn how to interpret the Bible according to group "X" (and in one scenario, it's to listen to some really old man speak in Latin, sing some songs, and then listen to the same old man read from the Bible verbatim) What have I been missing? How do I know which interpretation of the Bible is the right one? What if there is no church that matches what my heart tells me is the right interpretation of the Bible? Should I not trust my own feelings after honestly opening my heart to God?

 

[ebia]

For the first time in over a decade, the idea of being a Christian has become a real possibility to me. I hope that if I do decide to go down this path, that I can find a church that matches my values and beliefs as I haven't in the past and that has been a major issue in why I turned away from it in the first place. When I truly felt closest to God, it was not in a church, it was on the streets of Tijuana, Mexico spreading God's love to the less fortunate there, and being able to really drown out the preaching of right and wrong that I found in church and become close to God in a more personal way. Maybe I don't quite understand the purpose of church. I always thought that it should be a place to go to feel closer to God, but it seems in practice to be more like a place to go learn how to interpret the Bible according to group "X" (and in one scenario, it's to listen to some really old man speak in Latin, sing some songs, and then listen to the same old man read from the Bible verbatim) What have I been missing? How do I know which interpretation of the Bible is the right one? What if there is no church that matches what my heart tells me is the right interpretation of the Bible? Should I not trust my own feelings after honestly opening my heart to God?

Christianity isn't about individuals - it's about a community trying to live God's Kingdom. Or, at least, that's what it's supposed to be.
Given what you've said above, seek a local community that does major on being good news to the poor.

 

[CaseyB]

Christianity isn't about individuals - it's about a community trying to live God's Kingdom. Or, at least, that's what it's supposed to be.
Given what you've said above, seek a local community that does major on being good news to the poor.

I feel you haven't answered anything I have asked. Thanks though.

 

[Chrisv]

For the first time in over a decade, the idea of being a Christian has become a real possibility to me. I hope that if I do decide to go down this path, that I can find a church that matches my values and beliefs as I haven't in the past and that has been a major issue in why I turned away from it in the first place. When I truly felt closest to God, it was not in a church, it was on the streets of Tijuana, Mexico spreading God's love to the less fortunate there, and being able to really drown out the preaching of right and wrong that I found in church and become close to God in a more personal way. Maybe I don't quite understand the purpose of church. I always thought that it should be a place to go to feel closer to God, but it seems in practice to be more like a place to go learn how to interpret the Bible according to group "X" (and in one scenario, it's to listen to some really old man speak in Latin, sing some songs, and then listen to the same old man read from the Bible verbatim) What have I been missing? How do I know which interpretation of the Bible is the right one? What if there is no church that matches what my heart tells me is the right interpretation of the Bible? Should I not trust my own feelings after honestly opening my heart to God?

The purpose of the church is for Christians to get together so they can build up each other by sharing what God is doing in their lives. It is also a place where they can support and encourage each other as we all go through troubles in life.
It is not a place of stiff ceremonies and long winded sermons as we made out the modern church to be.

In biblical times the church was mostly small groups of people who got together on a weekly basis for a meal and to worship God.

Try and find a house church in your area, you might have to try more than one until you find a place where you are comfortable. If you cannot find one, start one. You do not need a special qualification to do so.

 

[Girder of Loins]

Church(with a little "c") exists as an area for fellow saints to have fellowship with one another. I disagree with the current view of church as a place for a believe to learn. I think church should act as a social setting for saints to worship and break bread with one another. But finding a church like this is difficult. So I stick with going to churches that engage in deep worship, not the hits on K-Love.

Sit down and list what is most important to you in a church. Is it the worship? Is it the people? Is it the leadership? Find churches that can meet the most important things first, then widdle your way down from there.

 

[paul1149]

The church has a three-fold "MRI" purpose: missional, relational, incarnational. "Spreading God's love to the poor" with the right motivation incorporates all three. It's hard to fault that.

The letters tell us to be in harmony, "that your joy may be full". The Body of Christ ministers to itself, each joint supplying what it has been variously given from Father. We really can't go it alone. Even the most isolationist of us has benefited from others, at the very least through the transmission of the scriptures. We need to be humble enough to accept this.

If you look at Jesus' quintessential definition of church in Mt 18.20, He boils it down to the least possible plurality: 2 or more. IOW, He really doesn't care much about structure or numbers, it's about content. Of course, we tend to focus on the exact things He deems less important.

I have seen the failure of churches. It was a very bitter pill to take, and I failed the test. But the Lord was faithful to me through it, and used man's failure to show me the true nature of His astonishing love and faithfulness. That is something I never could have learned by just being told about it. I experienced it, and I'm better for it. He works all things for good if we let Him.

AFAIC, a lot of your criticisms are essentially valid. But I will say this. A while back I was investigating a liturgical church and attended some services. At the first, I was astonished to find Christ in the liturgy. It actually scared the heck out of me, because I'm far from being a liturgy guy. My theology was shaken, and I was personally chastised. I realized that God really doesn't care too much about the form, it's the heart He's after.

What must we do to do the works of God? Believe in the One He sent to us. It all begins there. As the Author and Finisher of our faith, His promise is to faithfully lead us where we need to go. But then the Bible tells us to prove the will of God, so being led is not always an automatic, facile process. So I would say there is no easy answer, but to take it day by day and grow in your most holy faith.

 

[football5680]

that I can find a church that matches my values and beliefs as I haven't in the past and that has been a major issue in why I turned away from it in the first place.

Choosing a church isn't like choosing lunch. The church shouldn't conform to your values because God has 1 true church and we as humans need to conform to the church. If you want something that fits into your own beliefs then start your own church but don't expect salvation through it.

How do I know which interpretation of the Bible is the right one?

Go to the original church and read what the earliest Christians believed. The earliest church is the Catholic church and all the early church fathers agree with the Catholic church. The church has never changed an official doctrine for 2000 years. Jesus promised to protect his church and if a church cannot trace their history back 2000 years then that is not the church Jesus is referring to.

Also for the bible to even be considered inspired regardless of the denomination the Catholic church must be infallible. If the Catholic church was not infallible then there is a possibility they chose to include the wrong books in the New Testament. The Church existed long before the bible existed.

What if there is no church that matches what my heart tells me is the right interpretation of the Bible? Should I not trust my own feelings after honestly opening my heart to God?

Hearts are deceptive. Most people do not want to go to a church that tells them what they are doing is a sin, and they just want a church that says they can do whatever they want and they will be fine. This is not what God wanted. If you care about what God wants then your choice must be based on the truth and you must put aside everything else. Once you accept the church you must be willing to change for God.

 

[graceandpeace]

For the first time in over a decade, the idea of being a Christian has become a real possibility to me. I hope that if I do decide to go down this path, that I can find a church that matches my values and beliefs as I haven't in the past and that has been a major issue in why I turned away from it in the first place. When I truly felt closest to God, it was not in a church, it was on the streets of Tijuana, Mexico spreading God's love to the less fortunate there, and being able to really drown out the preaching of right and wrong that I found in church and become close to God in a more personal way. Maybe I don't quite understand the purpose of church. I always thought that it should be a place to go to feel closer to God, but it seems in practice to be more like a place to go learn how to interpret the Bible according to group "X" (and in one scenario, it's to listen to some really old man speak in Latin, sing some songs, and then listen to the same old man read from the Bible verbatim) What have I been missing? How do I know which interpretation of the Bible is the right one? What if there is no church that matches what my heart tells me is the right interpretation of the Bible? Should I not trust my own feelings after honestly opening my heart to God?

Thanks for your questions & it is always encouraging to hear someone open to following Jesus.

Of course, depending on who you ask your questions, you are likely to get diverse responses (as already evidenced in previous answers to your post).

There are several purposes & benefits to being part of a local church (lower case "c"), but I think it really all comes down to one word - community.

The Christian faith is not meant to be solely individualistic, but a faith lived out together with others who also follow Jesus. Christians worship together, give together, learn together, serve together, pray together, take part in sacraments together. And when we gather together in a local church (lower case "c"), we are expressing ourselves locally as part of the universal Church (capital "C") that includes everyone who follows Jesus.

I know you have expressed concern about finding a church with your beliefs. If you Google "christian denomination quiz" a link from SelectSmart comes up. By no means will such a quiz be able to address some of the deeper differences between various denominations, but it may be a very small starting point to help you figure out what sorts of churches you might be interested in - then you can research their history & beliefs more to see if there could be a potential match. The quiz pinpoints me as "Methodist/Wesleyan," which is correct for me.

Still, once you begin to follow Jesus & grow in faith, your theology could always change - and sometimes, depending on what you believe, that could be a good thing. While I certainly consider myself "Methodist/Wesleyan" (as I have for so long), I have recently grown interested in the Eastern Orthodox church. I know some of their teachings are much different than what I am accustomed to, but I am generally tolerant of differences when I can see valid reasons for thinking differently & understand that sometimes another perspective isn't necessarily wrong.

I hope that helps!

 

[CaseyB]

Thanks for your questions & it is always encouraging to hear someone open to following Jesus.

Of course, depending on who you ask your questions, you are likely to get diverse responses (as already evidenced in previous answers to your post).

There are several purposes & benefits to being part of a local church (lower case "c"), but I think it really all comes down to one word - community.

The Christian faith is not meant to be solely individualistic, but a faith lived out together with others who also follow Jesus. Christians worship together, give together, learn together, serve together, pray together, take part in sacraments together. And when we gather together in a local church (lower case "c"), we are expressing ourselves locally as part of the universal Church (capital "C") that includes everyone who follows Jesus.

I know you have expressed concern about finding a church with your beliefs. If you Google "christian denomination quiz" a link from SelectSmart comes up. By no means will such a quiz be able to address some of the deeper differences between various denominations, but it may be a very small starting point to help you figure out what sorts of churches you might be interested in - then you can research their history & beliefs more to see if there could be a potential match. The quiz pinpoints me as "Methodist/Wesleyan," which is correct for me.

Still, once you begin to follow Jesus & grow in faith, your theology could always change - and sometimes, depending on what you believe, that could be a good thing. While I certainly consider myself "Methodist/Wesleyan" (as I have for so long), I have recently grown interested in the Eastern Orthodox church. I know some of their teachings are much different than what I am accustomed to, but I am generally tolerant of differences when I can see valid reasons for thinking differently & understand that sometimes another perspective isn't necessarily wrong.

I hope that helps!

I did the quiz and the last question gives you the option of guessing where you will land and I guessed right. Guess I already knew which denomination I fit with based on the questions asked. One thing I have found that I don't fit with in this denomination is that a lot of the Old Testament law can either be interpreted as law for all people or law for the Israelite people/Jewish chosen people/whatever. Its not only that, its that of all the laws in there, they focus on select few of them to preach about and ignore the rest. God didn't say, "Moses, here are some laws, choose which ones you think are important and make sure the Israelites follow those and you may ignore the rest!"

BTW in case you were interested my result was Mennonite Brethren.

 

[98cwitr]

For the first time in over a decade, the idea of being a Christian has become a real possibility to me. I hope that if I do decide to go down this path, that I can find a church that matches my values and beliefs as I haven't in the past and that has been a major issue in why I turned away from it in the first place. When I truly felt closest to God, it was not in a church, it was on the streets of Tijuana, Mexico spreading God's love to the less fortunate there, and being able to really drown out the preaching of right and wrong that I found in church and become close to God in a more personal way. Maybe I don't quite understand the purpose of church. I always thought that it should be a place to go to feel closer to God, but it seems in practice to be more like a place to go learn how to interpret the Bible according to group "X" (and in one scenario, it's to listen to some really old man speak in Latin, sing some songs, and then listen to the same old man read from the Bible verbatim) What have I been missing? How do I know which interpretation of the Bible is the right one? What if there is no church that matches what my heart tells me is the right interpretation of the Bible? Should I not trust my own feelings after honestly opening my heart to God?

Hebrews 10:24-25
New International Version (NIV)
24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Ephesians 3:10
His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,

 

[ViaCrucis]

The reason we gather together isn't to feel close to God. It's because God has something to offer us and He does that in the context of gathered community. The Church gathers together ("does church") to receive the gifts of God's Word and Sacraments. And it is this gathering around Christ in the offering of Word and Sacrament which constitutes and creates in us the reality that we are the Church, the People of God.

The purpose of "doing church" is given fairly early in the Acts of the Apostles:

"And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers." - Acts 2:42

That is to say, Word and Sacrament. These are God's gifts to His people, making them our possession by the giving of them.

"Doing church" isn't so that we can feel something, or that we can do something for God; but because here in this gathering Christ is present, giving Himself, in Word and Sacrament to establish and create His Body, His Church, in the world.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CaseyB]

The reason we gather together isn't to feel close to God. It's because God has something to offer us and He does that in the context of gathered community. The Church gathers together ("does church") to receive the gifts of God's Word and Sacraments. And it is this gathering around Christ in the offering of Word and Sacrament which constitutes and creates in us the reality that we are the Church, the People of God.

The purpose of "doing church" is given fairly early in the Acts of the Apostles:

"And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers." - Acts 2:42

That is to say, Word and Sacrament. These are God's gifts to His people, making them our possession by the giving of them.

"Doing church" isn't so that we can feel something, or that we can do something for God; but because here in this gathering Christ is present, giving Himself, in Word and Sacrament to establish and create His Body, His Church, in the world.

-CryptoLutheran

Can you simplify that into non-religious speak? That's something that really turns non-Christians off. I never understand why people don't realize that they aren't talking to someone who has any clue what they're saying.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Can you simplify that into non-religious speak? That's something that really turns non-Christians off. I never understand why people don't realize that they aren't talking to someone who has any clue what they're saying.

Jesus instituted a community, a people that are to be His people which He called His Church. In Greek, ekklesia, a "called out gathering", a gathered assembly of Christians. That Church gathers, comes together around the Person of Jesus. Just as Jesus called His Twelve Apostles to come and gather around Him, so we also come and gather around Him.

He said, "Wherever two or three gather in My name, I am in their midst." The way He is present is what we call "Word and Sacrament".

Word -- the proclaimed Word, that is, the preaching of the Gospel, the hearing of the Scriptures, the pronouncement of forgiveness of sins, the sermon, etc. This is Christ Himself, what He has done for us, preached for our hearing so that we can believe it and confess it.

Sacrament -- Specifically the Sacrament of Communion, also called the Eucharist or Lord's Supper. That is, the distribution of the bread and wine as Christ instructed at the Last Supper, "Take and eat, this is My body" and "Take and drink, this is My blood". Thus we receive Christ Himself, body and blood, in the elements of bread and wine.

In this way--"Word and Sacrament--Christ is present in the midst of the gathered assembly of Christians. When we meet, when we come together, it is to gather around Jesus and these gifts of His for us. We respond, in worship, by giving thanks to God for His good gifts--and therefore our hymns and our prayers.

The purpose of "doing church"--coming and meeting together--is because Jesus promised that He would be there when we do that. And the way He has made Himself present for us, is in these distribution of gifts. The preaching of the Word and the administration of the Sacraments.

I'm not sure I'd know how to de-religionify the language more, but if you have questions about what exactly I mean, you're free to ask.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LBP]

For the first time in over a decade, the idea of being a Christian has become a real possibility to me. I hope that if I do decide to go down this path, that I can find a church that matches my values and beliefs as I haven't in the past and that has been a major issue in why I turned away from it in the first place. When I truly felt closest to God, it was not in a church, it was on the streets of Tijuana, Mexico spreading God's love to the less fortunate there, and being able to really drown out the preaching of right and wrong that I found in church and become close to God in a more personal way. Maybe I don't quite understand the purpose of church. I always thought that it should be a place to go to feel closer to God, but it seems in practice to be more like a place to go learn how to interpret the Bible according to group "X" (and in one scenario, it's to listen to some really old man speak in Latin, sing some songs, and then listen to the same old man read from the Bible verbatim) What have I been missing? How do I know which interpretation of the Bible is the right one? What if there is no church that matches what my heart tells me is the right interpretation of the Bible? Should I not trust my own feelings after honestly opening my heart to God?

On my profile, I identify my denomination as "The Church of What LBP Believes" (LBP being me, the pastor, only member and janitor of said Church). That's where I'm at after 40+ years as a Christian and assorted attempts to "fit in" at a myriad of churches (not to mention graduate studies toward becoming a Southern Baptist pastor). I understand all of the traditional reasons for church attendance, but no church that I attended met my expectations of needs -- and I actually found most of them to be quite depressing examples of "Christianity." There is nothing worse than surrounding yourself with folks who don't share your understanding of core Christian doctrines and values or pretending to believe some ten-point creed when you really don't believe three of the points. I see nothing wrong with studying and worshipping on your own and participating in the body of Christ on the streets of Tijuana rather than in a brick-and-mortar church. You can be your very own The Church of What CaseyB Believes (although I will have to sue you for trademark infringement if you actually call it this ). If I ever actually attend a church again, it is quite likely to be -- GASP!!! -- the Jehovah's Witnesses (BOO!!! HISS!!!) who, despite some of their oddball beliefs, impress me with their sincerity and the way they really live their Christian values; whether their theology is absolutely "correct," or the Southern Baptists think they are going to hell, means precisely nothing to me because I tend to believe it means precisely nothing to Jesus as well. Anyway, I wouldn't let concerns about "which church to attend" stand in the way of "being a Christian," because IMHO there is little connection between the two.

 

[LBP]

He said, "Wherever two or three gather in My name, I am in their midst."

Of course, that's true when two or three gather in his name on the streets of Tijuana, too.

The purpose of "doing church"--coming and meeting together--is because Jesus promised that He would be there when we do that. And the way He has made Himself present for us, is in these distribution of gifts. The preaching of the Word and the administration of the Sacraments.

Nothing against the Lutherans per se, but the history of the denomination, from the Reformation to the cooperation with Hitler and the current brouhaha over gays, would suggest that Jesus' presence isn't always wonderfully obvious. It's "just another" denomination among 30,000+ others. I tend to believe that Jesus is more likely to be present when Christians are doing what CaseyB describes doing on the streets of Tijuana than when a group enamored of terminology like "Word and Sacrament" is "doing church" on Sunday morning.

 

[seashale76]

The Church is a hospital for sinners and Christ is the Great Physician. When one goes to church they go to be baptized into Christ and then live a life in Christ within the body of Christ (which encompasses other Christians). While at church one can partake of the fountain of immortality/the medicine for what ails us/the Eucharist. Partaking of the Eucharist- one literally has Christ in them. Think of Christ's Church as the ark of your salvation.