The Psychology of the Devil.

[Dan Brooks]

Did you notice the verse I posted? That's what the Bible teaches (although I realize there are other views as well).

So you take that to mean that God makes the fallen angels new also? But look at when that occurs. It occurs after the devil and his angels have been cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

So God makes all things new after the final judgment. The devil as well as all enemies of God are already judged and in the lake of fire when He makes all things new.

 

[mkgal1]

So you take that to mean that God makes the fallen angels new also?

Yes, I do.....because it says "ALL things".

It occurs after the devil and his angels have been cast into the lake of fire.

Right. But we're often presuming that "lake of fire" is a bad thing. It's interesting to study in the Bible that God is described in His glory as "fire". Fire purifies and cleanses.....burns off the dross. The Holy Spirit --in Acts--is described as "fire". Fire doesn't have to mean "destruction". Look at the book of Daniel when Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego were thrown into the fire. The only thing that burned off were their bondages. You can interpret that to mean that God's fire frees people from what keeps them in bondage.

 

[Dan Brooks]

Yes, I do.....because it says "ALL things".


Right. But we're often presuming that "lake of fire" is a bad thing. It's interesting to study in the Bible that God is described in His glory as "fire". Fire purifies and cleanses.....burns off the dross. The Holy Spirit --in Acts--is described as "fire".

But Scripture describes what the purpose of the lake of fire is. It says that the devil will be tormented forever and ever. It's not a purging. It's a punishment. If it didn't say that he would be tormented forever and ever in that lake of fire then maybe it could be interpreted another way. But as it is written, I don't see how it could be.
Not trying to argue or debate or be offensive, it's just that's how I see Scripture and what I see it saying. I don't see being tormented for ever and ever being able to mean, being purged and cleansed.

 

[mkgal1]

It says that the devil will be tormented forever and ever.

It's a bad translation when it's interpreted as "forever and ever".

What I believe is that until Satan and his demons "come to their senses" just as the Prodigal son did....they will be tormented by His glory just as the Prodigal's brother was furious at their father even though he was in the presence of a loving and generous father.

 

[Dan Brooks]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Having been an Arch-Angel, and having a name as Lucifer, or light bearer, I can only think that Lucifer and his angels led the worship in heaven.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. - 2 Corinthians 11:14

The devil comes to earthlings as an angel of light. One to illuminate and to do good. You never see beer commercials with the homeless in skid row. It is a party like atmosphere that he delights most in.

Yes he definitely enjoys it when people don't take their sin or its consequences seriously.

 

[Robban]

But Scripture describes what the purpose of the lake of fire is. It says that the devil will be tormented forever and ever. It's not a purging. It's a punishment. If it didn't say that he would be tormented forever and ever in that lake of fire then maybe it could be interpreted another way. But as it is written, I don't see how it could be.
Not trying to argue or debate or be offensive, it's just that's how I see Scripture and what I see it saying. I don't see being tormented for ever and ever being able to mean, being purged and cleansed.

You know what Jesus said to Peter,
Matt 16:23,
Jesus turned on Peter and said,
"Get away from me, you Satan,
you are a dangerous trap to me."

Why?
Because,
"You are thinking merely from a human point
of view, and not from God,s."

The Satan is named about 4-5 times in the whole of the Tanach, in the NT he pops up all over the place.

Should that not be a hint that there is a higher meaning, somewhere.

In any case are you not supposed to be preparing season of joy and not focusing on creepy crawlies with sharp teeth.

 

[Dan Brooks]

You know what Jesus said to Peter,
Matt 16:23,
Jesus turned on Peter and said,
"Get away from me, you Satan,
you are a dangerous trap to me."

Why?
Because,
"You are thinking merely from a human point
of view, and not from God,s."

The Satan is named about 4-5 times in the whole of the Tanach, in the NT he pops up all over the place.

Should that not be a hint that there is a higher meaning, somewhere.

In any case are you not supposed to be preparing season of joy and not focusing on creepy crawlies with sharp teeth.

I'm not really sure what in the world you're talking about. I don't even know how to respond.

 

[Robban]

I'm not really sure what in the world you're talking about. I don't even know how to respond.

 

[Zoness]

But the interpretations of the Word varies among denominations, sometimes to contradictory levels, so that alone is not sufficient.

Most churches claim to be the most correct version of Christianity but to use the a phrase often uttered by Christians, "they can't all be right" so which is it? I'll probably never know so I've found there's no fun to even asking.

 

[awitch]

What would a possible misinterpretation of this be?
1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

That is the gospel. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins. And he says according to the Scriptures, of which there are many that attest to His crucifixion. He was buried, again attested in the Scriptures, and rose again the third day, also attested by many Scriptures. How does one misinterpret Jesus dying on the cross, being buried, and rising again from the dead?

That's the core, but what about the rest. You can't just pick 4 liners from multiple books.

The gospel really is simple. It's the devil and people that mess it up.

So if someone makes a sincere attempt to find god to the best of his abilities but is unknowingly deceived by an invisible, undetectable force, then god still condemns him to eternal torment?

 

[thesunisout]

John 8:44

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it

Satan is a liar, the very first liar. He lied to the angels, he lied to Adam and Eve, and now he is lying to us. Lies are his resource, and through them he has deceived the whole world:

Revelation 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

I think we have greatly misunderstood the battle he is waging against us. More than anything, the devil is trying to control what we think:

2 Corinthians 10:4-5

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ

In controlling what we think, he can control what we do; it's really that simple. This passage is telling us that his goal is to deceive us about the knowledge of God. The more we know and understand God, the freer we are. We fight back against his wicked power of deception with the weapons God has given us, one of which is the sword of the Spirit:

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart

To discern the lies we have believed, and to bring those thoughts into captivity to obey Christ, we need the word of God. The word of God will expose every lie the devil has ever sold us. The strongholds will fall when the lies are exposed and we are conformed to the truth. Therefore, when we know and believe the truth about God, we will be delivered of his lies and be set free:

John 8:32

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free

 

[thesunisout]

Most churches claim to be the most correct version of Christianity but to use the a phrase often uttered by Christians, "they can't all be right" so which is it? I'll probably never know so I've found there's no fun to even asking.

Jesus is right, and He has given every believer the Holy Spirit to instruct us and lead us into all truth. Every denomination has some of the truth, and all of them have truth in common, but the body of Christ is the true church. One day when persecution comes, all denomination lines will disappear and only the true believers in Jesus Christ will be left standing. If you want to read about what that is like I recommend this book (it's free):

VOM - Tortured for Christ

 

[Zoii]

So.
What criteria shall we use to determine with absolute certainty which gospel is the correct one?

Thats a good point. We have in my city several churches that have strong biblical doctrines but - when it comes down to it its fosters sexual predatory behaviours. Inside Providence: The secretive Korean church led by a convicted rapist

So good point - which gospel - just who is telling the truth here.

 

[MehGuy]

Jesus is right, and He has given every believer the Holy Spirit to instruct us and lead us into all truth. Every denomination has some of the truth, and all of them have truth in common, but the body of Christ is the true church. One day when persecution comes, all denomination lines will disappear and only the true believers in Jesus Christ will be left standing. If you want to read about what that is like I recommend this book (it's free):

VOM - Tortured for Christ

Yep.. Gotta weed out those people who can't take pain. Lol..

 

[Dan Brooks]

Most churches claim to be the most correct version of Christianity but to use the a phrase often uttered by Christians, "they can't all be right" so which is it? I'll probably never know so I've found there's no fun to even asking.

That's part of what I was talking about. The devil has all kinds of false churches, that preach false gospels, and other false doctrines. It's like the Baskin Robbins of religion. That's why I said to someone else that the criteria for knowing what the gospel is, is the Word of God.
Like Jesus said, "Search the Scriptures, for in them, ye think ye have eternal life. But they are they which testify of Me."
It's Jesus who saves you. And it's only Jesus who can. He died on the cross and shed His blood (and without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins). And He died willingly, purposely, for that exact reason and purpose.
John 12:27
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? "Father, save me from this hour:" but for this cause came I unto this hour. (The cause He was referring to was going to the cross.)
And when you believe that Jesus, being the Messiah, the Lord and Son of God, did that in order to pay the price for sin, for YOUR SINS, and you believe that He rose again from the dead like He said He would, and you trust Him to save you from your sins and their consequences (being everlasting punishment), then He saves you and gives you His Holy Spirit, which bears witness to your spirit that you have become a child of God, and He also guides you into all truth.
Whatever any church says, what's important is what the Word of God says.
Believe Him, and you won't be wrong, because you'll know the truth. And the truth will set you free.

 

[Dan Brooks]

So if someone makes a sincere attempt to find god to the best of his abilities but is unknowingly deceived by an invisible, undetectable force, then god still condemns him to eternal torment?.

So many churches turn people away from Christ, because they don't preach the gospel, so the people don't get their souls saved, and they don't receive Jesus or the Holy Spirit, so they can't ever understand the truth. That's why I said the criteria is the Word of God. It's not necessarily something taught at church. (The gospel SHOULD be preached at EVERY church, but it isn't. As I said in my OP, the devil has many false churches, and false versions of Christianity.) Some churches have some true doctrines, and others have other true doctrines. Some do have more truth than others, and some have basically no truth. The Word of God is what you have to go by, and Jesus said they testify of Him.
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

So what I'm saying is, it's Jesus. Salvation is in Jesus Christ. It's all Jesus, and only Jesus.
If you have sought God, keep seeking Him.
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
The Word of God says that no one seeks after God.
Romans 3:10-12
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
So if you are seeking God, then there is a reason for that.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If you're seeking God, seek Jesus. If you receive Jesus, you receive the Father. If you deny or reject or refuse Jesus, then you are doing so to God.

John 14:1
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me. (Jesus)
1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Luke 10:16
He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
Matthew 10:40
He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
And if you seek Jesus, who is Christ, you need the right Christ. The real Christ.
Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

You said that you know that the passage I quotes was the core of the gospel. If you know this, then receive it, and the Christ about whom it is, and the Holy Spirit of Christ who died, and was raised again from the dead.

Yes, the devil can and does deceive people. Many people. When Revelation talks about the devil being cast into the lake of fire, it calls him "the devil that deceived them".
Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

But Jesus said to take heed that ye be not deceived. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And no one comes to the Father but by Him. He is the only way to God, and to eternal life. Don't be deceived by counterfeits, or other ways, all of which lead to destruction.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[Dan Brooks]

You know what Jesus said to Peter,
Matt 16:23,
Jesus turned on Peter and said,
"Get away from me, you Satan,
you are a dangerous trap to me."

Why?
Because,
"You are thinking merely from a human point
of view, and not from God,s."

The Satan is named about 4-5 times in the whole of the Tanach, in the NT he pops up all over the place.

Should that not be a hint that there is a higher meaning, somewhere.

In any case are you not supposed to be preparing season of joy and not focusing on creepy crawlies with sharp teeth.

 

[Dan Brooks]

Are you of the belief that Satan is not an individual being, but a part of humanity, as in, being the "bad" part of us? If that is the case, Scripture is clear about Satan being an actual spiritual being, a fallen angel. He is also called the Devil, the Dragon, and the Serpent. He is an actual being.

 

[awitch]

Some churches have some true doctrines, and others have other true doctrines. Some do have more truth than others, and some have basically no truth.

But you still have yet to address how we determine which of those doctrines are the true ones.

The Word of God is what you have to go by, and Jesus said they testify of Him.

Many religions claim to hold scriptures that are the word of god. What makes yours any more credible than any other?

 

[Dan Brooks]

But you still have yet to address how we determine which of those doctrines are the true ones.



Many religions claim to hold scriptures that are the word of god. What makes yours any more credible than any other?

Oh I thought you meant that different churches preach different interpretations of the Bible. (Which they do, which is why I said to go by the actual Word of God).
When someone believes the true gospel, he receives the Holy Spirit who guides them into all truth.
Short answer to what makes "mine" more credible that any other is that it is true.
But of course you would ask me how I can prove it's true.
It isn't up to me to prove it's true. That's up to God.
What other scriptures are contenders in your mind?