The Prophet Jonah and the Spirit of Calvinism

The Bible is an honest book, it does not hide the sins and the mistakes of God's people.

God spoke to Jonah and said, "Jonah go up to that wicked city Nineveh and testify against them." Jonah 1:2.

Jonah probably thought, that is going to be a waste of time and money. There is no one there that is going to listen to what I have to say. They are all a bunch of wicked seeds of the devil, predestinated to go to hell.

Instead of going to Nineveh like the Lord told him he runs down to the dock and gets on a ship to Tarshish. This ship was headed in the opposite direction of Nineveh. He was trying to escape from the presence of the Lord and this going to Nineveh thing, Jonah 1:3.

Why did God want Jonah to go and testify against Nineveh? It was for the same reason that God sent Jesus into the world, to save sinners. Yes, God loved those wicked sinners in Nineveh. He wanted them to repent and turn to him.

No sooner had Jonah gotten on the boat to Tarshish and a mighty storm came up. Jonah figuered that this would be a good time to take a nap so he wouldn't have to think about what was going on, Jonah 1:5. The ships captain suspected that Jonah had something to do with the storm that was about to sink the ship. So the crew cast lots to see who was responsible for this terrible storm, the lot fell on Jonah, Jonah 1:6.

Jonah told the sailors to throw him overboard. They really didn't want to but they threw him overboard anyway, Jonah 1:15. Jonah would rather have died than to go to Nineveh and testify against those wicked people that God loved.

God was not through with Jonah. God had prepared a great fish that swallowed Jonah. Jonah was in the fishes belly for three days and three nights. During that time Jonah did a lot of heavy praying, Jonah 2:1-9. The fish finally vomited Jonah upon on the beach probably in the direction of Nineveh.

Again the word of the Lord came to Jonah for a second time. "Arise go into that wicked Nineveh and preach to them." Jonah 3:1. After the storm and the fish thing Jonah probably thought it would be better to obey the Lord.

Jonah entered the city and cried unto them, In 40 days the Lord will bring judgment upon this wicked city. Well, guess what happened? The whole city from the greatest to the least repented and turned to the Lord. Jonah 3:5-9. Nineveh was a city of about 120,000.

Was Jonah happy that all of those wicked people repented and turned to the Lord? No, he got mad and became very angry that all of those wicked people turned to the Lord. He was so unhappy that he wanted to die, Jonah 4:3.

Jesus said to the apostles, "Go into all THE WORLD and preach the gospel." If you have the same attitude as Jonah had towards lost wicked sinners then you will not be much of a witness for Christ.

Much of the Modern Missions movement was begun by Calvinists (e.g. William Carey). America's greatest evangelist, George Whitefield, was a Calvinist.

Calvin sent hundreds of evangelists back into France for the sake of the gospel.

So let's not caricature Calvinism.

And what does the "spirit of Calvinism" have to do with this? How about defining what you mean by "the spirit of Calvinism"

drstevej said:

Much of the Modern Missions movement was begun by Calvinists (e.g. William Carey). America's greatest evangelist, George Whitefield, was a Calvinist.

Calvin sent hundreds of evangelists back into France for the sake of the gospel.

So let's not caricature Calvinism.

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Facts can be such inconvenient things.....

Let's not forget about Jonathan Edwards and his mission to the Indians in New England in the 18th century. Same goes for David Brainerd - also a Calvinist. George Whitfield also was an evangelist - calvinist - from the same time frame.

Also - regarding Calvin - he also sent missionaries to Great Britain if I recall correctly.

But all this is a moot point - the proof is in the pudding. If Calvinists didn't evangelize there wouldn't be any Calvinists!

@Mr. Pate - Huh? What's this have to do with Calvinism?

drstevej said:

Much of the Modern Missions movement was begun by Calvinists (e.g. William Carey). America's greatest evangelist, George Whitefield, was a Calvinist.

Calvin sent hundreds of evangelists back into France for the sake of the gospel.

So let's not caricature Calvinism.

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The hard core Calvinist of William Carey's day was very opposed to His Missions work. There was no fond favor from the Calvinist camp for missions but He did eventually prevail.

Easystreet said:

The hard core Calvinist of William Carey's day was very opposed to His Missions work. There was no fond favor from the Calvinist camp for missions but He did eventually prevail.

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In 1793 Baptist soteriology was predominantly Reformed. The issues brought up were largely logistical.

Carey preached from the text, "Be still, and know that I am God," and set before his hearers two thoughts: (1) God has a sovereign right to dispose of us as He pleases; (2) we ought to acquiesce in all that God does with us and to us. Website on evangelists and missions

Robert Pate said:

Why did God want Jonah to go and testify against Nineveh? It was for the same reason that God sent Jesus into the world, to save sinners. Yes, God loved those wicked sinners in Nineveh. He wanted them to repent and turn to him.

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God's opinion towards those who do not know Him and those who do not obey Him is indifference (John 13:8; 2 Thess. 1:8-9). 2 Thess. 1:8-9 indicates that to not know Him and to not obey Him is to be out of His presence.

To know (abide in) Him and to obey Him is to be in His love (John 14:21; 15:10).

John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in [know and experience] My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in [know and experience] His love.

What the book of Jonah actually shows is that God's mercy can be unconditional (Rom. 9:15), not that God loves everyone.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world" either means:

1. Jesus died for everyone, but only the obedient enjoy the benefits of His death and the benefits of being in His presence and love

or

2. God's love was first for all (God loved everyone), but when the world rejected Him (Acts 4:27), God's love was only for those who know Him and therefore obey Him.

Robert Pate said:

Jonah entered the city and cried unto them, In 40 days the Lord will bring judgment upon this wicked city. Well, guess what happened? The whole city from the greatest to the least repented and turned to the Lord. Jonah 3:5-9. Nineveh was a city of about 120,000.

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It could have been predetermined. But if it wasn't, this shows that God's mercy can be unconditional (Rom. 9:15) and that it is God who determines who is saved (Rom. 9:16).

Robert Pate said:

Jesus said to the apostles, "Go into all THE WORLD and preach the gospel." If you have the same attitude as Jonah had towards lost wicked sinners then you will not be much of a witness for Christ.

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Predetermination of eternal fate applies to all (Acts 13:48; 1 Peter 2:8). It is only because God grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:25) that the words of His people are made effective. Without His involvement, the words only harden the person's heart (Matt. 7:6).

Easystreet said:

The hard core Calvinist of William Carey's day was very opposed to His Missions work. There was no fond favor from the Calvinist camp for missions but He did eventually prevail.

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And yet a Calvinist led the way amid opposition.

A Calvinist, Whitefield, introduced Wesley to open air evangelism.

The Gospel is a past historical event, never to be repeated.

The Gospel is a record of how God in the person of Jesus Christ has reconciled the world unto himself, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them: and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation," 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Do you believe the Bible?

because of the work of Jesus Christ who is the new Adam and representative of humanity, God now sees all of humanity as perfect and complete in Christ, "And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power," Colossians, 2:10.

Jesus is the savior of the whole world, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD," 1 John 2:2.

God in the person of Jesus Christ has provided salvation for all who want it.

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN," Titus 2:11.

The Gospel is the good news that God in the person of Jesus Christ has overcome and has defeated the world, the flesh, and the devil. "Jesus Christ is Lord"

By his sinless life he has fulfilled God's Holy Law. By his death he has atoned for the sins of the whole world. "Jesus Christ is Lord" He is victorious over all things.

"Wherefore God has exalted him, and has given him a name above every name. That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father," Philippians 2:9-11.

Robert Pate said:

Calvinism is the result of not understanding or denying the Gospel.

The Gospel is a past historical event, never to be repeated.

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Robert Pate said:

The Gospel is a record of how God in the person of Jesus Christ has reconciled the world unto himself , "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them: and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation," 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Do you believe the Bible?

because of the work of Jesus Christ who is the new Adam and representative of humanity, God now sees all of humanity as perfect and complete in Christ , "And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power," Colossians, 2:10.

Jesus is the savior of the whole world , "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD," 1 John 2:2.

God in the person of Jesus Christ has provided salvation for all who want it.

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN," Titus 2:11.

The Gospel is the good news that God in the person of Jesus Christ has overcome and has defeated the world, the flesh, and the devil. "Jesus Christ is Lord"

By his sinless life he has fulfilled God's Holy Law. By his death he has atoned for the sins of the whole world . "Jesus Christ is Lord" He is victorious over all things.

"Wherefore God has exalted him, and has given him a name above every name. That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father," Philippians 2:9-11.

It is not possible for the Jesus of Calvinism to be Lord. A limited atonement makes him a failure. Not Lord.

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All this proves is that you do not possess a correct understanding of Calvinism, or such statements about it would not be made.

Robert Pate said:

Calvinism is the result of not understanding or denying the Gospel.

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Not true.

Pate said:

The Gospel is a past historical event, never to be repeated.

The Gospel is a record of how God in the person of Jesus Christ has reconciled the world unto himself, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them: and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation," 2 Corinthians 5:19.

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OK

Pate said:

Do you believe the Bible?

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Of course I do. Why would you even ask such a question in a Christians-only forum? Just because we don't see it the way you see it doesn't mean that we don't believe the Holy Scriptures.

Pate said:

because of the work of Jesus Christ who is the new Adam and representative of humanity, God now sees all of humanity as perfect and complete in Christ, "And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power," Colossians, 2:10.

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Absolutely untrue. Paul was speaking to Christians, not the whole world. It is Christians who are complete in Him. the unsaved are not in Him, nor are they complete in Him. Very poor exegesis on your part. Shockingly poor.

Pate said:

Jesus is the savior of the whole world, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD," 1 John 2:2.

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Propitiation does not actually save anyone or forgive anyone. It is the means by which Salvation can be possible, through the work of Christ.

Pate said:

God in the person of Jesus Christ has provided salvation for all who want it.

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Only problem is, unless God first regenerates their hearts, they don't want it, and most don't even know they need it.

Pate said:

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN," Titus 2:11.

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Yes, Jesus was publicly crucified. that alone does not enlighten men as to the significance of what happened.

Pate said:

The Gospel is the good news that God in the person of Jesus Christ has overcome and has defeated the world, the flesh, and the devil. "Jesus Christ is Lord"

By his sinless life he has fulfilled God's Holy Law. By his death he has atoned for the sins of the whole world. "Jesus Christ is Lord" He is victorious over all things.

"Wherefore God has exalted him, and has given him a name above every name. That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father," Philippians 2:9-11.

Click to expand...

Yes, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, but many will not be doing so as a result of Salvation.

Pate said:

It is not possible for the Jesus of Calvinism to be Lord. A limited atonement makes him a failure. Not Lord.

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Baloney! Such statements clearly show that you don't understand Calvinism, or even know correctly what it teaches.

Robert Pate said:

It is not possible for the Jesus of Calvinism to be Lord. A limited atonement makes him a failure. Not Lord.

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I do not hold limited atonement but I would still disagree with your unsupported assertion. Those holding limited atonement can rightly argue Christ came to save the elect and limited atonement accomplished that precisely.

It is our view, unlimited atonement, that has explaining to do.

Insert Coin, Replay.

nobdysfool said:

Not true.



OK



Of course I do. Why would you even ask such a question in a Christians-only forum? Just because we don't see it the way you see it doesn't mean that we don't believe the Holy Scriptures.



Absolutely untrue. Paul was speaking to Christians, not the whole world. It is Christians who are complete in Him. the unsaved are not in Him, nor are they complete in Him. Very poor exegesis on your part. Shockingly poor.



Propitiation does not actually save anyone or forgive anyone. It is the means by which Salvation can be possible, through the work of Christ.



Only problem is, unless God first regenerates their hearts, they don't want it, and most don't even know they need it.



Yes, Jesus was publicly crucified. that alone does not enlighten men as to the significance of what happened.



Yes, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, but many will not be doing so as a result of Salvation.



Baloney! Such statements clearly show that you don't understand Calvinism, or even know correctly what it teaches.

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Here is the problem.

You say that you believe the Bible but you don't.

2 Corinthians 5:18,19. says that God has reconciled the world unto himself. You have a problem here.

If God has reconciled the world unto himself means...
All sin is done away with.
The whole world is saved.
God sees all of humanity as perfect in Christ.
Death and the devil have been overcome and defeated.
Jesus is Lord and is victorious over all things.

If God has reconciled the world unto himself all religion including the Calvinist religion is worthless.

Robert Pate said:

because of the work of Jesus Christ who is the new Adam and representative of humanity, God now sees all of humanity as perfect and complete in Christ, "And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power," Colossians, 2:10.

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Then why do we still sin? A mature believer does not sin (1 John 3:9; 5:18). Perfection is granted by God to those who are abiding in Him. To abide in Him is to obey Him by mastering the flesh (Rom. 8:13-14). Notice the "you" and the "in Him" which indicates that Paul was speaking to obedient believers.

Robert Pate said:

You say that you believe the Bible but you don't.

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I believe the Bible.
I do not believe what you say the Bible says.

Robert Pate said:

You say that you believe the Bible but you don't.

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I do believe the Bible, every word of it.

I do not believe your version of what the Bible says. Especially when you make the fallacious claim that all of mankind is saved. That is so obviously not true, that it's laughable, if it weren't so sad.

Robert Pate said:

If God has reconciled the world unto himself all religion including the Calvinist religion is worthless.

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That would include your religion, as well. But, there are still billions of people not reconciled to God, so we are still commanded to go and preach the Gospel. If the whole world were reconciled, as you claim, there would be no need to preach the Gospel. So, apparently you do not understand what Paul meant when he wrote that, and need to learn it. You obviously have a wrong understanding of Paul's words....

drstevej said:

I believe the Bible.
I do not believe what you say the Bible says.

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It is very plain. What is it that you do not understand about 2 Corinthians 5:19.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation," 2 Corinthians 5:19

Other related scripture

"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall ALL be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:22.

"For God has concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy on ALL," Romans 11:32.

" But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN," Hebrews 9:10.

Do you believe these scriptures?

Robert Pate said:

It is very plain. What is it that you do not understand about 2 Corinthians 5:19.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation," 2 Corinthians 5:19

Other related scripture

"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall ALL be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:22.

"For God has concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy on ALL," Romans 11:32.

" But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN," Hebrews 9:10.

Do you believe these scriptures?

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Are you a universalist?